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So, Barge Info?

Author
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#441 - 2016-08-23 18:44:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Lawrence Lawton wrote:
The changes will further differentiate the hulls by yield.

Skiff/Proc is currently the only class that requires more than a few suicide gankers to take down, and is therefore considered the safest class. In exchange for that safety it will now yield 25-40% less than other classes. This is an indirect nerf to automated mining, since Skiff/Proc is the ship of choice for large multibox and bot mining operations.

Human miners will have a much greater incentive to use Mack/Ret/Hulk/Cov to get the highest yield. Those who are attentive will be able to stay alive by watching local and dscan like responsible capsuleers, and those who are not will be farmed mercilessly as they should be.

The New Order is looking foward to the upcoming changes. We expect to see a decrease in the use of Skiffs and Procurers and a resulting increase in the number of soft targets for small groups of gankers.


And this is perfectly fine as you said. I plused your post because it is totally reasonable, though do bear in mind taht the strip miners have been buffed a bit.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#442 - 2016-08-23 18:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
I get 1077 from the catalyst if you are willing to officer mag stab + polarized gun fit it...

Also some ganker in another thread said he gets 24 seconds in a 0.5 system with concord pre-pulled...

You still need 3.25 catalysts though for 80k ehp.


Oh FFS, you are just being an ass now. You usually post much better than this. Yeah, people are going to gank fitting officer modules while ganking.

Yeah yeah, see my follow-up post to Solecist P

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#443 - 2016-08-23 18:47:11 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Please tell us how 2 catalysts can take down any ship at all with 80,000 EHP.

Here is my math:

Making the heroic assumption that the catalyst can put out 600 DPS and that there are 2 of them it will take 66 and 23rds seconds to gank such a ship. What is the response time in a 0.5 system? Worst case/least upper bound is 20 seconds. To gank a skiff it would require at a minimum 7 catalysts under these parameters which are at the extreme. A more realistic scenario is probably 10.

You are talking complete nonsense.


As per normal you talk complete rubbish, with CONCORD pulled away it is around 24 seconds. I said 7. Stop tripping over your own stupidity when making points.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#444 - 2016-08-23 18:48:34 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
and nurfing the skiff. will only result in me useing a Rokh to mine astroids ... are they gonna nurf the Rokh because it cant be ganked by 1-2 cats?? (and will just use the endurance for mining ice )


That is a really on the point statement, they cannot nerf the Skiff to facilitate easy ganking...

Checkmate to baltec1 and all you entitled gankers.


Seriously? baltec 1 has been saying that with his suggestion/plan a skiff could still get up to 80k EHP. 1-2 catalysts can not gank that. Stop posting like a tool.


You are the complete tool, this is a single multi boxer level so not acceptable.


Can you try again, and this time try to be a bit more coherent. 1-2 catalysts cannot gank a ship with 80k EHP in HS. Just cannot happen.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#445 - 2016-08-23 18:48:47 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
I get 1077 from the catalyst if you are willing to officer mag stab + polarized gun fit it...

Also some ganker in another thread said he gets 24 seconds in a 0.5 system with concord pre-pulled...

You still need 3.25 catalysts though for 80k ehp.

Well that's kind of unreasonable...

True - but I wanted to see if it was possible *at all* - as Teckos asked...

Realistically @ 700 dps over 24 seconds you need 4.75 catalysts w/ full t2 fit, max skills, and 3% implants. That *is* doable to get 5 of them together. Kusion fields 10 ganking alts alone, as I recall - so he should be able to hit 160k ehp in a 0.5 system, in theory, just with catalysts.

edit: It actually comes out to 16,800 ehp per catalyst - just for those who want an easy multiplier - 15k ehp per catalyst should be a reasonable amount to actually expect/ask for in general...though if you want to be "safe" you will of course bring extra.


And that was my balance I want the tanky mining ship to be above a solo player, as Skiffs have been confirmed as staying at this level I am perfectly happy.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#446 - 2016-08-23 18:49:35 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
and nurfing the skiff. will only result in me useing a Rokh to mine astroids ... are they gonna nurf the Rokh because it cant be ganked by 1-2 cats?? (and will just use the endurance for mining ice )


That is a really on the point statement, they cannot nerf the Skiff to facilitate easy ganking...

Checkmate to baltec1 and all you entitled gankers.


Seriously? baltec 1 has been saying that with his suggestion/plan a skiff could still get up to 80k EHP. 1-2 catalysts can not gank that. Stop posting like a tool.


You are the complete tool, this is a single multi boxer level so not acceptable.


Can you try again, and this time try to be a bit more coherent. 1-2 catalysts cannot gank a ship with 80k EHP in HS. Just cannot happen.


What the hell are you going on about, I never said 1-2 Catalysts could gank 80k, stop being a complete tool.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#447 - 2016-08-23 18:49:50 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Please tell us how 2 catalysts can take down any ship at all with 80,000 EHP.

Here is my math:

Making the heroic assumption that the catalyst can put out 600 DPS and that there are 2 of them it will take 66 and 23rds seconds to gank such a ship. What is the response time in a 0.5 system? Worst case/least upper bound is 20 seconds. To gank a skiff it would require at a minimum 7 catalysts under these parameters which are at the extreme. A more realistic scenario is probably 10.

You are talking complete nonsense.


As per normal you talk complete rubbish, with CONCORD pulled away it is around 24 seconds. I said 7. Stop tripping over your own stupidity when making points.



Okay, so we go with 24 you need 6 catalysts. You are the one posting stupidity here. But congratulations on completely derailing a thread.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#448 - 2016-08-23 18:49:57 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
And that was my balance I want the tanky mining ship to be above a solo player, as Skiffs have been confirmed as staying at this level I am perfectly happy.

Well in terms of Kusion... Honestly he can probably gank any skiff being flown in a 0.5 system right now, with current EHP.

Fortunately for you - he seems to prefer juicy, profitable freighters.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#449 - 2016-08-23 18:51:10 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


What the hell are you going on about, I never said 1-2 Catalysts could gank 80k, stop being a complete tool.


You sure thought Gunrunner1775 had a good point about being able to gank a rokh with 1-2 catalysts. In fact, you used the term checkmate.

But we all know you are a liar.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#450 - 2016-08-23 18:51:20 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
And that was my balance I want the tanky mining ship to be above a solo player, as Skiffs have been confirmed as staying at this level I am perfectly happy.

Well in terms of Kusion... Honestly he can probably gank any skiff being flown in a 0.5 system right now, with current EHP.

Fortunately for you - he seems to prefer juicy, profitable freighters.


Actually no, he has ganked poorly tanked skiffs in Otela a few times.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#451 - 2016-08-23 18:53:31 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


What the hell are you going on about, I never said 1-2 Catalysts could gank 80k, stop being a complete tool.


You sure thought Gunrunner1775 had a good point about being able to gank a rokh with 1-2 catalysts. In fact, you used the term checkmate.

But we all know you are a liar.


And you ar a tool, checkmate was referring to the fact that should CCP nerf the Skiff then people will switch to something that can tank better such as a Rokh. You never read what people write, just post on your own projection of what people have written.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#452 - 2016-08-23 18:55:49 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
And that was my balance I want the tanky mining ship to be above a solo player, as Skiffs have been confirmed as staying at this level I am perfectly happy.

Well in terms of Kusion... Honestly he can probably gank any skiff being flown in a 0.5 system right now, with current EHP.

Fortunately for you - he seems to prefer juicy, profitable freighters.


Actually no, he has ganked poorly tanked skiffs in Otela a few times.

As seen here Even well-tanked skiffs can be killed. In this case they used 11 catalysts - but you will note that the top damage dealer did well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts - meaning they had a lot of wasted dps they didn't get to use...so 11 cats was overkill.

Just because Kusion *doesn't* kill well-fit skiffs, doesn't mean he *can't*... It is simple math.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#453 - 2016-08-23 18:56:47 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Please tell us how 2 catalysts can take down any ship at all with 80,000 EHP.

Here is my math:

Making the heroic assumption that the catalyst can put out 600 DPS and that there are 2 of them it will take 66 and 23rds seconds to gank such a ship. What is the response time in a 0.5 system? Worst case/least upper bound is 20 seconds. To gank a skiff it would require at a minimum 7 catalysts under these parameters which are at the extreme. A more realistic scenario is probably 10.

You are talking complete nonsense.


As per normal you talk complete rubbish, with CONCORD pulled away it is around 24 seconds. I said 7. Stop tripping over your own stupidity when making points.



Okay, so we go with 24 you need 6 catalysts. You are the one posting stupidity here. But congratulations on completely derailing a thread.


Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#454 - 2016-08-23 19:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
And that was my balance I want the tanky mining ship to be above a solo player, as Skiffs have been confirmed as staying at this level I am perfectly happy.

Well in terms of Kusion... Honestly he can probably gank any skiff being flown in a 0.5 system right now, with current EHP.

Fortunately for you - he seems to prefer juicy, profitable freighters.


Actually no, he has ganked poorly tanked skiffs in Otela a few times.

As seen here Even well-tanked skiffs can be killed. In this case they used 11 catalysts - but you will note that the top damage dealer did well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts - meaning they had a lot of wasted dps they didn't get to use...so 11 cats was overkill.

Just because Kusion *doesn't* kill well-fit skiffs, doesn't mean he *can't*... It is simple math.


I noticed a couple of multi boxer ganks carried out on skiffs at times, I keep an eye on this for obvious reasons, if he turned up in local with all his alts I would be docking fast even with my Skiff which is not quite max tanked, but close. I think he needs a couple more players multi boxing to enable him to kill my Skiff, something they could do if they really wanted to. My subjective assessment is that it has to be a stretch challenge not something they could do routinely.

Actually that is Lawrence who did this, he posted above, the Skiff fit is sub-optimal.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#455 - 2016-08-23 19:03:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


What the hell are you going on about, I never said 1-2 Catalysts could gank 80k, stop being a complete tool.


You sure thought Gunrunner1775 had a good point about being able to gank a rokh with 1-2 catalysts. In fact, you used the term checkmate.

But we all know you are a liar.


And you ar a tool, checkmate was referring to the fact that should CCP nerf the Skiff then people will switch to something that can tank better such as a Rokh. You never read what people write, just post on your own projection of what people have written.


And you just can't think about baltec1's proposal and be honest about.

Ganking an 80k ehp ship will likely take 6 catalysts minimum, 7 would be the most likely sweet spot. That is going to be considerably less sustainable than ganking a retriever or a covetor or even an un-tanked mackinaw. In these latter cases you an often get away with 1 catalyst, 2 to be sure. So you'd have to have a wallet that is at least 3x deeper to go around ganking skiffs if their EHP is reduced down to 80k. And this is assuming skiff pilots just sit there and do nothing.

baltec1's idea is the first idea I have seen that could make mining interesting and still allow for solo mining in a skiff. Yes, there might be a higher level of occasional skiff ganks, but given that skiffs are ganked so infrequently already, going from 0 to 1 is not going to be a serious problem.*

You have to be the biggest crybaby on the forums. Some body comes up with an idea that could make HS fleet mining interesting and you wet yourself about a minuscule increase in the likelihood of being ganked.

*Yes, a while back I went an looked at skiffs that were killed in HS, I found one. It was killed by a guy in a cynabal and he in turn did not show any loss mail, so my conclusion was he killed the skiff legally.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

FT Cold
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#456 - 2016-08-23 19:05:57 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Please tell us how 2 catalysts can take down any ship at all with 80,000 EHP.

Here is my math:

Making the heroic assumption that the catalyst can put out 600 DPS and that there are 2 of them it will take 66 and 23rds seconds to gank such a ship. What is the response time in a 0.5 system? Worst case/least upper bound is 20 seconds. To gank a skiff it would require at a minimum 7 catalysts under these parameters which are at the extreme. A more realistic scenario is probably 10.

You are talking complete nonsense.


As per normal you talk complete rubbish, with CONCORD pulled away it is around 24 seconds. I said 7. Stop tripping over your own stupidity when making points.


Just chiming in here, but with the following fit you can tank 180k ehp worth of kin/therm (read cata) damage without heat and 281 with heat:

[Skiff, Kin therm tank]
Damage Control II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Gist C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Gist C-Type Thermal Dissipation Field
Gist C-Type Thermal Dissipation Field
Gist C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Pyroxeres Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Gist C-types are pretty cheap, if you're willing to spend a few more isk, the tank can go up significantly.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#457 - 2016-08-23 19:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
And that was my balance I want the tanky mining ship to be above a solo player, as Skiffs have been confirmed as staying at this level I am perfectly happy.

Well in terms of Kusion... Honestly he can probably gank any skiff being flown in a 0.5 system right now, with current EHP.

Fortunately for you - he seems to prefer juicy, profitable freighters.


Actually no, he has ganked poorly tanked skiffs in Otela a few times.

As seen here Even well-tanked skiffs can be killed. In this case they used 11 catalysts - but you will note that the top damage dealer did well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts - meaning they had a lot of wasted dps they didn't get to use...so 11 cats was overkill.

Just because Kusion *doesn't* kill well-fit skiffs, doesn't mean he *can't*... It is simple math.

Well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts?

If by many other, you mean none then that's a strange use of language.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#458 - 2016-08-23 19:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
And that was my balance I want the tanky mining ship to be above a solo player, as Skiffs have been confirmed as staying at this level I am perfectly happy.

Well in terms of Kusion... Honestly he can probably gank any skiff being flown in a 0.5 system right now, with current EHP.

Fortunately for you - he seems to prefer juicy, profitable freighters.


Actually no, he has ganked poorly tanked skiffs in Otela a few times.

As seen here Even well-tanked skiffs can be killed. In this case they used 11 catalysts - but you will note that the top damage dealer did well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts - meaning they had a lot of wasted dps they didn't get to use...so 11 cats was overkill.

Just because Kusion *doesn't* kill well-fit skiffs, doesn't mean he *can't*... It is simple math.

Well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts?

If by many other, you mean none then that's a strange use of language.

Touche - only nearly twice the damage of the lowest damage catalyst. I exaggerated, and I deserved that. o7

It did deal *significantly* more damage however - or if you prefer the lower half of catalysts did significantly *less* damage - so there was wasted dps on field.



edit: I also included the guristas rats as a ganker - it was only 10 - so already in kusion range as is, even though it wasn't kusion.

also, if we divide the damage done by the damage of the top catalyst - only 7.75 catalysts (yes, 8 of them) were required - they had at least 2 spare catalysts on the field.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#459 - 2016-08-23 19:22:19 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

As seen here Even well-tanked skiffs can be killed. In this case they used 11 catalysts - but you will note that the top damage dealer did well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts - meaning they had a lot of wasted dps they didn't get to use...so 11 cats was overkill.

Just because Kusion *doesn't* kill well-fit skiffs, doesn't mean he *can't*... It is simple math.

Well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts?

If by many other, you mean none then that's a strange use of language.

Touche - only nearly twice the damage of the lowest damage catalyst. I exaggerated, and I deserved that. o7

It did deal *significantly* more damage however - or if you prefer the lower half of catalysts did significantly *less* damage - so there was wasted dps on field.



edit: I also included the guristas rats as a ganker - it was only 10 - so already in kusion range as is, even though it wasn't kusion.

also, if we divide the damage done by the damage of the top catalyst - only 7.75 catalysts (yes, 8 of them) were required - they had at least 2 spare catalysts on the field.

So NPCs are gankers now?

**** me, this debate is even crazier than it reads.

I expect that sort of manipulation of the truth from Dracvlad, but you are normally much more reasonable in your posts.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#460 - 2016-08-23 19:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


What the hell are you going on about, I never said 1-2 Catalysts could gank 80k, stop being a complete tool.


You sure thought Gunrunner1775 had a good point about being able to gank a rokh with 1-2 catalysts. In fact, you used the term checkmate.

But we all know you are a liar.


And you ar a tool, checkmate was referring to the fact that should CCP nerf the Skiff then people will switch to something that can tank better such as a Rokh. You never read what people write, just post on your own projection of what people have written.


And you just can't think about baltec1's proposal and be honest about.

Ganking an 80k ehp ship will likely take 6 catalysts minimum, 7 would be the most likely sweet spot. That is going to be considerably less sustainable than ganking a retriever or a covetor or even an un-tanked mackinaw. In these latter cases you an often get away with 1 catalyst, 2 to be sure. So you'd have to have a wallet that is at least 3x deeper to go around ganking skiffs if their EHP is reduced down to 80k. And this is assuming skiff pilots just sit there and do nothing.

baltec1's idea is the first idea I have seen that could make mining interesting and still allow for solo mining in a skiff. Yes, there might be a higher level of occasional skiff ganks, but given that skiffs are ganked so infrequently already, going from 0 to 1 is not going to be a serious problem.*

You have to be the biggest crybaby on the forums. Some body comes up with an idea that could make HS fleet mining interesting and you wet yourself about a minuscule increase in the likelihood of being ganked.

*Yes, a while back I went an looked at skiffs that were killed in HS, I found one. It was killed by a guy in a cynabal and he in turn did not show any loss mail, so my conclusion was he killed the skiff legally.


Trying to recover from your catastrophic level of stupidity earlier.

For null sec its an interesting idea and I think CCP should have a look at it.

7 is a sweet spot for gankers, it is not for people who want to be difficult to kill, it is not a stretch target and I say this having kept an eye on Skiffs being ganked I have found a number of Skiffs that have been ganked, Dirty Forum Alt linked one I was aware of. So while you in your ignorance dismiss that, I don't you are ignorant on this subject. This is not a miniscule increase in risk, it changes the threat level significantly.

The majority of people who mine in hisec are solo miners with one or two ships, not fleets, people do fleets when ice mining and if we ignore hisec mechanics and the issues there it would be of interest to multi boxer fleet miners in ice belts. But not for the majority of hisec miners. So for making it better for what are likely to be bot aspirants in ice belts you want to screw it up for real active solo miners in hisec. Shocked

EDIT: Well I had a look at your killboard, Proteus loss, nasty, but the interesting part was you actually going out ganking, I see you killed a Hulk with a Talos and then a Retreiver with a Talos which makes little sense. Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp