EVE General Discussion

This is why you should have been elected to the CSM.

That's a fresh idea that would create play for several groups.

Well, as many have pointed out before, one can always play on sisi in complete peace and freedom, and it's a world where you don't have to risk anything.

The reason why both serious pvp AND pve players continue on tranquility though (even after heavy losses/disasters) because what you gain in sisi is meaningless. You can rat in supers and titans and do lvl 5 in low secs and hog all the resources in a quiet space in sisi - but all that isk or achievement on sisi is meaningless, both for pvp and pve players.

Maybe it says something about eve, that maybe we need this risk/loss/hostility/griefing and all that to make what we do meaningful - that you have achieved (whether pve or pvp) DESPITE the risk and hostility.

No risk and no consequence makes any action meaningless. People may discuss what is a good balance between pve and pvp, but the pure fact that majority of people persist on tranquility, or rather unsub than live permanent life on sisi, is a proof that we can exclude any notion of 'zero tisk' and/or '100% safety' as something that will NOT work in favour of player retention or growth.

definitely a post for some other thread and way too specific about a specific thing onencan do ingame.

the problem is cultural and not per se related to game mechanics beyond how people can interact and communicate with new players.

The rookie pond mechanics are fine and don't need looking at. With Crimewatch, timers, safety buttons and bounties there are more consequences than ever for empire fighters of all stripes.



I met a guy in Tolle who'd been mining in hisec for five years when he wasn't doing missions or roams, he'd never seen Spodumain. Hisec lowbrow shenanigans encourage people to move out of the rookie pond and get real with intel channels and def fleets.
Using wormholes / blops/ spais to get at miners in null is dangerous and fun. Completely on another level.

The assumption that 'hisec forever' is a playstyle needs examining.

It's not cultural it's educational. If you enjoy mining and industry the game gives you nothing to fight back. Your only opion it to relaye on Concord saving your but or running. If you do this long enough you learn 2 things: Standing tall will get you nothing but a loss mail and Concord is always to late. In the end you don't even know how to fight back and are lacking the will because you never ever won a fight.
Let's face it: an industrial livestyle is in high. Who looses a thing if a miner/hualer can fight back? If you want to gank easy targets with 100% success rate tackle astroids!

This post is why I say the real underlying problem is twofold: Part 1 is the defeatist nature of people who do industry. Part 2 is high sec, that exacerbates part 1.

My corp is mining and industrial corp. We stay in our little pocket of space and mine and rat and build things. When people come our way we kill them (many times with said mining ships) and usually with minimal Alliance support (ie we get help from other like minded corps but rarely does an alliance fleet come out and help us, the folks attacking us are long dead before they could get there lol). We aren't even a huge corp, real people wise, I have 5 alts in corp myself.

And yet we beat the crap out of folks who screw with us knowing CONCORD won't come help because we are in null sec. Despite the fact that it won't be Catalysts attacking us, it's BLACK OPS BATTLESHIPS. Up until a few days ago we had PANDEMIC LEGION in drop range of us, I lost a Ratting Navy Vexor to a freaking PL NYX.

What did we do? We kept ratting and mining. We dealt with PL even knowing Super Carriers could be dropped on us, we adapted. We FOUGHT BACK. And we Won. And we won without asking CCP to improve our Procs and Skiffs, we won with what we had, not what we wished we had.



But somehow we're supposed to believe that miners in HIGH SEC surrounded by other people they could be joining with, supported by magical space police that will fall out of the sky to attack people that attack them, these people can't deal with catalysts... it's pathetic, and CCP really needs to stop developing for pathetic people.

CCP needs to learn that it doesn't work, if you buff these high sec people who can't think their way out of a wet paper bag not only will they further dilute the game (this game was better when CCP didn't give a ****), but it won't even help the high sec people you aim to help. The reason why is that the high sec miner's problem isn't CODE or lack of slots on mining ships, it's their defeatist attitude, their losing mindset, and their unwillingness to group together for mutual defense. Better mining ships can't fix that, only those individuals can fix that inside themselves.

I see you didn't really understand... but that's okay.

Welcome back Sol, good to see you again, although the meta just for the sake of being meta fascination is an aqcuired taste ^^.

Well there are plenty of players out there, taking in newbies and helping them getting established and prepares them for the nature of EVE. So the premise that there is a non caring culture is not completely true IMO.

The main problem is getting in contact with them, and saving them from fearing player / player interactions. I myself avoided all player interaction when I started as I had heard that you should trust no one in EVE. After 1 year of finally levelling a domi for lvl 4 missions after running lvl 3 missions in a myrmidon (I know you love people who do this ^^), I finally wanted to do some PVP , sucked and went to get help by joining a corp and the rest is history.

My point > In EVE you can easily isolate yourself, or listen to the wrong people in NPC corps. I do not see how this can be changed realistcally. You have to wait for people getting ready to accept EVE as it is. The talk about changing cultures etc. is unrealistic as you do not have the platform to reach them or even assure they listen.

20 friends with assigned drones and defensive boosts. Next question?



NBSI has nothing to do with anything. Being prepared does. Knowing the game's mechanics does. Not defeating yourself before you even undock (which is what your posts suggests you do) helps.

I'll say it again, we figure out how to do it in null sec without any of the advantages of high sec. We (meaning the corp, I wasn't with them then) figured out how to do it in high sec when we lived in high sec. The people who can't are the people who didn't even try but prefer to run to CCP for help.



The problem isn't CODE or lack of slots, if literally the personality deficits of many who mine in high sec. This is why the EHP buffs and such led to more ganking. If you fix some external thing (like game mechanics) without addressing the actual interal cause of the problem (that cause is the prey-like behavior of many high sec miners, haulers and PVErs), then no amount of fixing will help.
The time you guys spent jsut today on fourms debating the next ineffectual buff to miners you could have been teaching an existing miner how to survive and outwit gankers and thirve (making one less target for CODE, deny them enough targets and they wither and die).