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Eve WiS

Author
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#101 - 2016-08-12 01:18:14 UTC
I may get flamed for it, but I used to be heavily into Sims 2. Even if there is no real game play, I would spend billions and billions to play the doll house in space. :p I think there is a potential there. See how many people bought SOE combat suits for their toons. Customisable Captain's quarter, ability to decorate & modify the interiors & buy/place new stuff, some nice clothes with real varieties to suit all tastes, more gestures & animations, etc, etc.

Well this may not be what most people would consider as EVE, and it's a totally different game play and I already admit this is nothing more than a 'doll house in space'. But the ISK sinks for this will be substantial I believe.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#102 - 2016-08-12 08:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkoth 24
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
SWTOR showed it was 'possible' to combine T/F PS, starship combat and dogfight/fighter combat. Yes, they have to be separated by server and a mechanism but they can exist in the same game. Now SWTOR made a lot of mistakes with it's implementation and offering, but it still showed it was possible.

As i said before already, STO showes it too. You can fight in space in your ship, you can get FPS-like missions on planets and stations, or you can just visit a bar, a garden, or a lecture room.

All of those may run on different servers and different engines, it's different games in whole, but for player it's still the one game, where he can switch from one activity to another. It would be better than just make another dull stand-alone FPS - we had DUST already, and now it's dead.

Toobo wrote:
Well this may not be what most people would consider as EVE, and it's a totally different game play and I already admit this is nothing more than a 'doll house in space'. But the ISK sinks for this will be substantial I believe.

There will be always a huge bunch of freaks, who will cry "This is a game about tables!!!!11" constantly, just like someone force 'em to buy and use outfits and stuff. Nope, they just hate when someone else use it. "Stop liking what i don't like", you know.

But in fact a lot of people ready to pay real money for that stuff, even just to make a cool portrait, so - why not?
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
Apocalypse Now.
#103 - 2016-08-12 16:32:58 UTC
I don't have issues with any of the Sim games or other 'database' driven games like the flash ones of Farmville, etc. My spouse is addicted to those things and I have to fight for computer time to play EVE, SWTOR and WoW (I have subscriptions to all 3). EVE is driven by databases as are all MMO's, it's the nature of the beast.

None of this means that EVE can't learn and grow from other games as well as invention within it's own ranks.

I've said this before but I have experience in creating Internet games and balancing very tough game decisions. What I learned there taught me that the more open you keep your mind, the better off the game is. When you hear a good idea, jump on it and hold it up as such. The corollary to that is, if you have a good idea, don't be so married to it that you can't see others change it and turn it into something better.

The idea that EVE has to stay the same way all the time is an idea that will kill the game. I think it's fine to take something and add it on to try it out and see how it plays. If everyone hates it, you change it or dump it, and move on. The trick is, you keep everyone informed and in the know. Pay attention to how the idea is taken in the forums, on Reddit, or other media forms. You can modify it if someone sees something you didn't. All of that is good design and interaction.

The opposite is keeping quiet and suddenly springing something on your player base and then staying so married to it that it becomes part of the game.

The entire watchlist debacle demonstrates what happens when you take something away without putting something back in it's place that solves the reason why it was taken away!
Noroswen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2016-08-12 18:21:46 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:


The idea that EVE has to stay the same way all the time is an idea that will kill the game.



It's also not true. As I have mentioned several times Eve today is not Eve from 2009, or Eve from 2003.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#105 - 2016-08-13 04:23:17 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
I The trick is, you keep everyone informed and in the know. Pay attention to how the idea is taken in the forums, on Reddit, or other media forms. You can modify it if someone sees something you didn't. All of that is good design and interaction.

The opposite is keeping quiet and suddenly springing something on your player base and then staying so married to it that it becomes part of the game.!


I like lots of things you said, but I don't like the idea about needing to follow eve stuff on reddit and twitter or whatever to keep up to date with what CCP is doing. Sure I accept them as good coomunication playform for player driven stuff, but when I see some eve development relates stuff on reddit before I see it in the forums or dev blog, I don't like it :p

To each to their own, but I prefer to see eve stuff on eve forums...

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
#106 - 2016-08-13 10:59:36 UTC
Arkoth 24 wrote:
...there are too many freaks who will whine constantly 'bout "EvE dyeing".

What colour do you want then?

Could you have meant "dying" or "dieing" ?

Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#107 - 2016-08-16 08:01:04 UTC
Jaxon Grylls wrote:
Arkoth 24 wrote:
...there are too many freaks who will whine constantly 'bout "EvE dyeing".

What colour do you want then?

Could you have meant "dying" or "dieing" ?

"EvE dyeing" is a catchphrase. Let's respect the tradition.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#108 - 2016-08-16 11:35:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
From this site you can see that some work was outsourced, I suppose its about outsourcing it to the Atlanta WoD team as described in this article. The team that was fired after few years after Incarna expansion and WoD cancelation.

They would need to add more people to company in the first place, like in my post.

BTW: This is a fine blog post about the matter of WIS development with links to other materials on this matter.
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries
Band of Boogers
#109 - 2016-08-16 22:34:34 UTC
EVE died because CCP didnt dare to keep developing WiS after the Incarna screwup.


WiS will never come, cuz CCP has given up on keep in EVE alive. They only some work to keep the most eager and fanatic EVE players happy... which gives some Subscriptions Income.

The time of EVE has passed.....
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2016-08-17 05:10:50 UTC
I love the idea of Eve Online being a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe. The only way for that to happen is for CCP to add Avatar Game play content for both in space and planetside.

Back in 2011 and 2012 there were a lot of different threads posted about WiS Avatar game content which usually turned into a forum war and got locked due to debates between pro and anti WiS players. However those threads contained various ideas for Avatar WiS game content as well as Avatar Exploration content so CCP has no shortage of ideas.

CCP did indeed listen but the main problem was nobody could agree on the specifics pertaining to it. Some players wanted all locations to be a 'shoot em up free for all action' while others wanted the content to follow existing game mechanics pertaining to system security levels (High, Low and Null Sec). Some players not only wanted the ability to kill other Avatars, they also wanted the ability to steal and or destroy personal assets as well, including jump clones.

Seeing how the community couldn't agree on the topic and due to the 2011 Summer Of Rage as well as problems with data programming, in my opinion CCP became gun shy about issuing any kind of statement pertaining to working on WiS Avatar game content. Even though they said the idea was shelved, as far as we know they could still be working on it now.

All of this was back when CCP was releasing DUST 514 (First Person Shooter) on Ps3 Console while working on World Of Darkness (Third Person Avatar Game) project. Currently both of those are now classified as failed, one due to picking the wrong medium for market and the other due to poor programming causing inability of game interaction. I only hope CCP learned from their mistakes on those projects.

Now it seems to me in order to have the experience of Eve being a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe, players have to sub to various game aspects of Eve Online. That in my opinion is the main problem. Everything should be locked and tied together with Eve Online and each aspect of game play content, both in space and planetside, should be accessed through the Captains Quarters.

Hopefully one day that becomes a reality.


DMC
Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#111 - 2016-08-17 07:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkoth 24
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I love the idea of Eve Online being a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe. The only way for that to happen is for CCP to add Avatar Game play content for both in space and planetside.

This. The solid universe is better than separated game aspects like spaceships navigation, dogfighting and ground assault in any way.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:
CCP did indeed listen but the main problem was nobody could agree on the specifics pertaining to it. Some players wanted all locations to be a 'shoot em up free for all action' while others wanted the content to follow existing game mechanics pertaining to system security levels (High, Low and Null Sec). Some players not only wanted the ability to kill other Avatars, they also wanted the ability to steal and or destroy personal assets as well, including jump clones.

The current mechanics of security levels is proved to be successful, so, for my opinion, there's no need to look for something else. While walking-in-station areas may be restricted for any kind of agression and used for people interaction, trading and resting only (HiSec level), planetary and exploration areas may be free-for-all and be entered for one's own risk.
Slade Wilsson
The Raza.
#112 - 2016-08-21 00:22:42 UTC
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#113 - 2016-08-21 14:51:59 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I love the idea of Eve Online being a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe. The only way for that to happen is for CCP to add Avatar Game play content for both in space and planetside.

Back in 2011 and 2012 there were a lot of different threads posted about WiS Avatar game content which usually turned into a forum war and got locked due to debates between pro and anti WiS players. However those threads contained various ideas for Avatar WiS game content as well as Avatar Exploration content so CCP has no shortage of ideas.

CCP did indeed listen but the main problem was nobody could agree on the specifics pertaining to it. Some players wanted all locations to be a 'shoot em up free for all action' while others wanted the content to follow existing game mechanics pertaining to system security levels (High, Low and Null Sec). Some players not only wanted the ability to kill other Avatars, they also wanted the ability to steal and or destroy personal assets as well, including jump clones.

Seeing how the community couldn't agree on the topic and due to the 2011 Summer Of Rage as well as problems with data programming, in my opinion CCP became gun shy about issuing any kind of statement pertaining to working on WiS Avatar game content. Even though they said the idea was shelved, as far as we know they could still be working on it now.

All of this was back when CCP was releasing DUST 514 (First Person Shooter) on Ps3 Console while working on World Of Darkness (Third Person Avatar Game) project. Currently both of those are now classified as failed, one due to picking the wrong medium for market and the other due to poor programming causing inability of game interaction. I only hope CCP learned from their mistakes on those projects.

Now it seems to me in order to have the experience of Eve being a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe, players have to sub to various game aspects of Eve Online. That in my opinion is the main problem. Everything should be locked and tied together with Eve Online and each aspect of game play content, both in space and planetside, should be accessed through the Captains Quarters.

Hopefully one day that becomes a reality.


DMC

Good condensed summary of the history, and good points raised as well.
Tokyo Drifter
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#114 - 2016-08-21 23:46:27 UTC
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:
They only some work to keep the most eager and fanatic EVE players happy... which gives some Subscriptions Income.

The time of EVE has passed.....


I don't support "WIS" and I wouldn't get any use for a "Barbie in space" update but I do understand the frustration of hisec players content wise. I just want to point out that the devs behave the same way toward everyone.

The most eager EvE players aren't happy about most of the changes either (Fozzie Sov, nullsec income barely better than Incursion, nerf to ratting etc). If this **** stays like that a large portion of the so called fanatics will continue to stop playing all together instead of just unsubbing alts.
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries
Band of Boogers
#115 - 2016-08-22 00:00:18 UTC
Tokyo Drifter wrote:
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:
They only some work to keep the most eager and fanatic EVE players happy... which gives some Subscriptions Income.

The time of EVE has passed.....


I don't support "WIS" and I wouldn't get any use for a "Barbie in space" update but I do understand the frustration of hisec players content wise. I just want to point out that the devs behave the same way toward everyone.

The most eager EvE players aren't happy about most of the changes either (Fozzie Sov, nullsec income barely better than Incursion, nerf to ratting etc). If this **** stays like that a large portion of the so called fanatics will continue to stop playing all together instead of just unsubbing alts.



Wis would attract alot of New players and give EVE additional alternative content. The current problem is too little content and a very narrow and specialiced path of content, slowly driving away more and more players.

CCP screwed it up so many times in different ways, so i truly belive that EVE will just keep shrinking and be left With a small bunch of old players that refuses to leave EVE because they feel they cant loose all the assests and time they have invested in EVE.

And yes, ure right, the most eager players HATE changes cuz it threathen their style of play.

Arnogh Weristrighis
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2016-11-17 03:25:06 UTC
Hello.

While I may be new to the game and only be able to play it because it went free (my financial situation doesn't let me pay for sub of anything, even Spotify, Netflix or some Twitch guy I enjoy), but I think WIS would greatly benefit the game, even if it'd be social aspect only, at least at first (i.e. no combat "out of ship").

To the people who says that they can't possibly do this, because their side projects failed, well, they've already did. Kinda. It's called captain's quarters. It works reasonably well, the only thing they would need to add is ability to run and jump because the walk speed is just awful.

Then they need to do "station level" and make it possible to meet other players there, i.e. just expanding the foundations that are already in the game.

Normally, as a programmer and a game developer myself, I'd probably scoff at "oh, just add multiplayer to this and make other people show up"... if Eve was a singleplayer game. But it being a multiplayer game, and single-server, persistent MMO world, no less (a feat that no other MMO doubled, unless I don't know of one that did it as well), means they already have most of netcode written, all they'd need would be just to reuse and adapt it for WIS.

Yes, it would take time, but compared to other stuff they have to do in order to just keep the game running (professional assessment by the way, tried to write several multiplayer, just multiplayer, like 2-4 people, games and netcode always prevented me from doing anything but hot seats, it's that hard), not to mention make new content and updates, it would be peanuts by comparison, since basic WIS engine (captain's quarters) is already done and most netcode, if they're writing it in a modular way with good methodologies, and given the fact the game hasn't yet spontaneously combusted, they do, can be reused. Heck, they could probably refit some netcode from DUST.
Flamespar
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
#117 - 2016-11-17 06:53:30 UTC
Personally I'd prefer Nova to be incorporated into EVE. Given that both games are free to play now, and we have the new downloading system. Players can play the part of EVE they want (FPS or space) and only download that part (or both)
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#118 - 2016-11-17 11:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Because nothing says 'Science Fiction Sandbox' quite like trying on clothes and walking around.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#119 - 2016-11-17 11:20:24 UTC
Arnogh Weristrighis wrote:
well, they've already did. Kinda. It's called captain's quarters. It works reasonably well, the only thing they would need to add is ability to run and jump because the walk speed is just awful.


no its terrible really

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#120 - 2016-11-17 11:39:49 UTC
Toobo wrote:
I may get flamed for it, but I used to be heavily into Sims 2. Even if there is no real game play, I would spend billions and billions to play the doll house in space. :p I think there is a potential there. See how many people bought SOE combat suits for their toons. Customisable Captain's quarter, ability to decorate & modify the interiors & buy/place new stuff, some nice clothes with real varieties to suit all tastes, more gestures & animations, etc, etc.

Well this may not be what most people would consider as EVE, and it's a totally different game play and I already admit this is nothing more than a 'doll house in space'. But the ISK sinks for this will be substantial I believe.


I've got hundreds of hours on Sims 3. Would be awesome I agree.

@lunettelulu7