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Star system boundary's

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Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#21 - 2011-12-21 18:21:01 UTC
Logging in/out might force a session change, though it might not, it might also clear your session at you depature point and leave you floating in limbo eternally without divine intervention (read GM assistance).

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-12-21 18:39:36 UTC
Isabelle Evotori wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
You would never actually be in the system. In other words, because of the session change mechanic every solar system is effectively the only solar system in the universe without session changes. The things that systems have relative to each other is the stars in the background and the new nebulae. Before those were implemented each system essentially worked independently from all the others with the only things tying them together being the old, constellation wide nebulae, the constellation attribute itself and the region attribute.

Now, after Crucible, it seems the systems communicate with each other more, or at least have the illusion of being connected by the devs having used a script to generate star positions and gate angles and the whole system is just a list of static data for each solar system. But on the other hand we now have jump drive effects that shoot you off in the direction of the target system.

Either way my point is that without session change your solar system might as well be alone in the universe so without it you'll only ever see the stuff in your system.



Hmmm. thx for clearing that up. bit of a immersion breaker tho....

O well....... it is just a game Big smile



In order to set up a SS far enough into another "system" You have to fly for several days, possibly weeks.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Atticus Fynch
#23 - 2011-12-21 18:51:16 UTC
It would be awesome if you could click on a background star and just warp to it.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#24 - 2011-12-21 19:00:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
There is now a limit on bookmarks at 20AU farther from the star than the farthest celestial object. But once you go to that BM you can point away from the star and keep slow boating... forever. You will never get to anther star though, the game does not have code for slow boating or warping to another star.

But it would be interesting if it did, at least for warping. Say you wanted to warp to another star. You select a planet or bookmark in that system, warp. You get a warning "Commit to xx hour long warp? You cannot undo this". select yes and off you go. Once you are outside that 20 AU boundary, you are removed from the starting system, and are not added back into the new one until you cross the 20AU boundary of the destination system.

Why? It allows a new way to invade a solar system that needs neither gate or cyno, but instead commitment of time.

Also CCP could add new solar systems and have us players warp to them and set up the stargates. Actual discovery, exploration and settlement of new stars.

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Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#25 - 2011-12-21 20:01:42 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
There is now a limit on bookmarks at 20AU farther from the star than the farthest celestial object. But once you go to that BM you can point away from the star and keep slow boating... forever. You will never get to anther star though, the game does not have code for slow boating or warping to another star.

But it would be interesting if it did, at least for warping. Say you wanted to warp to another star. You select a planet or bookmark in that system, warp. You get a warning "Commit to xx hour long warp? You cannot undo this". select yes and off you go. Once you are outside that 20 AU boundary, you are removed from the starting system, and are not added back into the new one until you cross the 20AU boundary of the destination system.

Why? It allows a new way to invade a solar system that needs neither gate or cyno, but instead commitment of time.

Also CCP could add new solar systems and have us players warp to them and set up the stargates. Actual discovery, exploration and settlement of new stars.


While this would indeed be very neat, there's another in-game obstacle.

Warping requires cap, where the longer the distance of the warp, the greater the cap needed. With good skills this is rarely an issue when warping within a solar system, but most ships won't get you further than about 100AU even on a full capacitor.

So you'd still have to align, warp, stop, recharge cap, and repeat. This would drastically increase travel time, not to mention preventing you from doing it AFK.
Isabelle Evotori
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-01-20 11:08:48 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
There is now a limit on bookmarks at 20AU farther from the star than the farthest celestial object. But once you go to that BM you can point away from the star and keep slow boating... forever. You will never get to anther star though, the game does not have code for slow boating or warping to another star.

But it would be interesting if it did, at least for warping. Say you wanted to warp to another star. You select a planet or bookmark in that system, warp. You get a warning "Commit to xx hour long warp? You cannot undo this". select yes and off you go. Once you are outside that 20 AU boundary, you are removed from the starting system, and are not added back into the new one until you cross the 20AU boundary of the destination system.

Why? It allows a new way to invade a solar system that needs neither gate or cyno, but instead commitment of time.

Also CCP could add new solar systems and have us players warp to them and set up the stargates. Actual discovery, exploration and settlement of new stars.



jep that would be epic. Love your idea. But I'm afraid it will never be implemented.
Isabelle Evotori
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-01-20 11:10:05 UTC
Esan Vartesa wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
There is now a limit on bookmarks at 20AU farther from the star than the farthest celestial object. But once you go to that BM you can point away from the star and keep slow boating... forever. You will never get to anther star though, the game does not have code for slow boating or warping to another star.

But it would be interesting if it did, at least for warping. Say you wanted to warp to another star. You select a planet or bookmark in that system, warp. You get a warning "Commit to xx hour long warp? You cannot undo this". select yes and off you go. Once you are outside that 20 AU boundary, you are removed from the starting system, and are not added back into the new one until you cross the 20AU boundary of the destination system.

Why? It allows a new way to invade a solar system that needs neither gate or cyno, but instead commitment of time.

Also CCP could add new solar systems and have us players warp to them and set up the stargates. Actual discovery, exploration and settlement of new stars.


While this would indeed be very neat, there's another in-game obstacle.

Warping requires cap, where the longer the distance of the warp, the greater the cap needed. With good skills this is rarely an issue when warping within a solar system, but most ships won't get you further than about 100AU even on a full capacitor.

So you'd still have to align, warp, stop, recharge cap, and repeat. This would drastically increase travel time, not to mention preventing you from doing it AFK.



Damn, i knew that there was a catch to this.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#28 - 2012-01-20 12:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Shpenat
In theory it is possible to get from one system to another. But there are 2 main obstacles: downtime and time

Downtime If there were no downtimes and you start moving to the next system, you would just fly on and on. In the end your ship grid will merge with grid of any object in another system (lets say gate). But since there were no session change timer, your local and your overview would still be in your original system. Only displaying things on current grid (ships, d-scan) would work correctly.

However during downtime server resets. Question is whether after downtime you are returned to your last position or whether you are returned to 20AU range. I did not test it, so I have no idea.

Time: 1AU equals 1.5x10^11 meters. Using 50km/s interceptor and dismissing downtime you would need 35days to travel 1AU.

1LY equals 10^16 meters. Using same interceptor would take you over 6000 years to travel 1LY.

Using warp at 3AU/s (and not considering required stops for cap recharge) 1LY would take 6 hours to cross.


In the end EvE allows you to move from one system to another not using gates. But it would take horribly long.

EDIT: formatting
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-01-20 13:05:58 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
There is now a limit on bookmarks at 20AU farther from the star than the farthest celestial object. But once you go to that BM you can point away from the star and keep slow boating... forever. You will never get to anther star though, the game does not have code for slow boating or warping to another star.

But it would be interesting if it did, at least for warping. Say you wanted to warp to another star. You select a planet or bookmark in that system, warp. You get a warning "Commit to xx hour long warp? You cannot undo this". select yes and off you go. Once you are outside that 20 AU boundary, you are removed from the starting system, and are not added back into the new one until you cross the 20AU boundary of the destination system.

Why? It allows a new way to invade a solar system that needs neither gate or cyno, but instead commitment of time.

Also CCP could add new solar systems and have us players warp to them and set up the stargates. Actual discovery, exploration and settlement of new stars.

How are people supposed to gatecamp you then? :(
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#30 - 2012-01-20 13:13:56 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
There is now a limit on bookmarks at 20AU farther from the star than the farthest celestial object. But once you go to that BM you can point away from the star and keep slow boating... forever. You will never get to anther star though, the game does not have code for slow boating or warping to another star.

But it would be interesting if it did, at least for warping. Say you wanted to warp to another star. You select a planet or bookmark in that system, warp. You get a warning "Commit to xx hour long warp? You cannot undo this". select yes and off you go. Once you are outside that 20 AU boundary, you are removed from the starting system, and are not added back into the new one until you cross the 20AU boundary of the destination system.

Why? It allows a new way to invade a solar system that needs neither gate or cyno, but instead commitment of time.

Also CCP could add new solar systems and have us players warp to them and set up the stargates. Actual discovery, exploration and settlement of new stars.


This might not be correct. It depends on whether you are returned to your last location or returned within 20 AU limit from the farthest object. If you are returned to your last location, the game code actually allows slow boating between systems. See mu previous post.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-01-20 13:40:55 UTC
Even if it were possible to double-click approach at faster than warp speed (Like the old 8 MWD Scorp), I imagine it'd be impossible to get to another system.

Systems in EVE are isolated bubbles, right? Even if you could force a session change (Like joining a fleet), nothing would happen. You may show up on the map in the middle of another system, but it just seems unlikely that EVE really is a huge, massive, single universe separated only by grid and overview range. Especially since the server has different nodes and all.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#32 - 2012-01-20 17:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tres Farmer
DarkAegix wrote:
Even if it were possible to double-click approach at faster than warp speed (Like the old 8 MWD Scorp), I imagine it'd be impossible to get to another system.

Systems in EVE are isolated bubbles, right? Even if you could force a session change (Like joining a fleet), nothing would happen. You may show up on the map in the middle of another system, but it just seems unlikely that EVE really is a huge, massive, single universe separated only by grid and overview range. Especially since the server has different nodes and all.


average distance from one star to another in New Eden is about 0.83 lightyears.. that's ~7.914.847.113.361.097 metres (or in AU.. ~52.907)

shortest distance I found was about 0.11LY.. still 6.956 AU

see here: http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/4817/neshortestdistancegraph.jpg

as for the bubbles.. the physics simulation of one system (call it a thread) keeps your dataset (ship, cargo, position, velocity, direction, actions, etc.. pp..) and calculates all your actions in relation to everything/everybody/every other dataset out there.
Obviously all other star systems threads must work similarly.
Now, how do you get a dataset from one of these threads to another one? How do you change solar systems?

several ways are currently allowed by ccp to switch threads:
- wormholes: transfer your dataset from one system to another (both ingoing and outgoing position are fixed, can vanish any time, are random, don't need other players, no range restrictions)
- cyno: allows you to jump to another player in another system with some restrictions.. like range, timing, etc..
- stargates: obviously simple.. fixed routes, anytime.. blah blah
- jumpbridges: ...
- clonejumping: well, you gotta go with your naked dataset, but still, you change threads ;-)
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#33 - 2012-01-20 17:27:50 UTC
I think the biggest thing preventing it (other than potential server issues) is that you cannot warp without something to lock onto.


And even at the best current MWD speeds, it would take RL years to get far enough for one system.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#34 - 2012-01-20 17:37:38 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
I think the biggest thing preventing it (other than potential server issues) is that you cannot warp without something to lock onto.
*snip*

A bookmark is just a 3D coordintate.. x,y,z.. and you can lock onto it.

Once you could create them at the starmap without the need to be there in the first place or another celestial/object as 'anchor'.

CCP disabled this.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#35 - 2012-01-20 17:53:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tres Farmer
Shpenat wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
There is now a limit on bookmarks at 20AU farther from the star than the farthest celestial object. But once you go to that BM you can point away from the star and keep slow boating... forever. You will never get to anther star though, the game does not have code for slow boating or warping to another star.

But it would be interesting if it did, at least for warping. Say you wanted to warp to another star. You select a planet or bookmark in that system, warp. You get a warning "Commit to xx hour long warp? You cannot undo this". select yes and off you go. Once you are outside that 20 AU boundary, you are removed from the starting system, and are not added back into the new one until you cross the 20AU boundary of the destination system.

Why? It allows a new way to invade a solar system that needs neither gate or cyno, but instead commitment of time.

Also CCP could add new solar systems and have us players warp to them and set up the stargates. Actual discovery, exploration and settlement of new stars.


This might not be correct. It depends on whether you are returned to your last location or returned within 20 AU limit from the farthest object. If you are returned to your last location, the game code actually allows slow boating between systems. See mu previous post.

The code contains no way for your dataset to appear in the other solar systems thread by slowboating.
It was (and probably still is) possible to 'slowboat' to the coordinates* of another solar system, but you didn't appear there.. your dataset is trapped in the thread of a solar system, unless you use one of the official methods to switch threads.

If you're in Perimeter, your pilot+ship+blah dataset is bound to that Perimeter physics simulation.
If you want to go to Jita some code needs to purge your data from the Perimeter simulation and place it into the Jita simulation.
Code that does this is: wormholes, gates, jumpbridges, cynos, clonejumping and dark GM magic

*) I wouldn't even know if relative solar system coordinates or New Eden coordinates are being used for those threads that run a solar system (precision). If those coordinates that those datasets run on in those solar system threads are locally you need another conversion once you move over to another system..
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