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CNR with cruise missiles - advice for lvl 4 mission
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#41 - 2016-09-07 13:58:06 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
Roci Nantes wrote:
MTUs are easy to scan down. Mission jackers and gamkers use them to find you, easier. Having an alt do your salvage a room or so behind you, is how I prefer to do mine.


Or simply don't bother with all the (mostly) T1 junk and scrap metal. The time it takes to pick it all up you could have done an other mission and farmed more LPs. Loot BS wrecks during a mission and ignore the rest and move on to the next mission.



There's a few missions where its worth it like Gone Berserk. And missions where your reward is faction tags, you might as well get the loot as well. But yeah mostly not even worth the time to come back in a hauler or noctis.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#42 - 2016-09-08 02:36:27 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Liang dear, you don't need a painter on a CNR. I would suggest one guidance computer, which works at all ranges. And since the cruise missiles buff, they are not terrible anymore, even for pvp.



Paint I have found useful for the dual purpose of aiding drones for the small crap kills. Max skill t2 paint is around 38% sig radius, RF 41%. really helps the drones I find, but as always others mileage may vary.

My take is I just hate the small crap. Beside some oddball rat BS' (gurista BS' can run ECM as an example) e-war is usually on the small crap. I usually want them dead. Faster the better. Sometimes its better to let them close and paint assisted drone kill them.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#43 - 2016-09-09 07:18:25 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cyclone Organic wrote:

It usually takes 10s for a cruise missile to hit the target from 105KM away, but yourself don't need to move a single step. So It doesn't make too much difference between cruise class ships and BCs in the perspective of time efficiency.


This is actually a great reason not to use a MJD cruise ship. Painter cycle time, counting volleys, and delayed damage. Ugh - it's just too much mental work to get efficient missioning out of a setup like that. I'd rather just face tank it and minimize missile travel time.

-Liang


Liang dear, you don't need a painter on a CNR. I would suggest one guidance computer, which works at all ranges. And since the cruise missiles buff, they are not terrible anymore, even for pvp.



TPs don't stack with Rigors

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#44 - 2016-09-09 11:06:33 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Liang dear, you don't need a painter on a CNR. I would suggest one guidance computer, which works at all ranges. And since the cruise missiles buff, they are not terrible anymore, even for pvp.



Paint I have found useful for the dual purpose of aiding drones for the small crap kills. Max skill t2 paint is around 38% sig radius, RF 41%. really helps the drones I find, but as always others mileage may vary.

My take is I just hate the small crap. Beside some oddball rat BS' (gurista BS' can run ECM as an example) e-war is usually on the small crap. I usually want them dead. Faster the better. Sometimes its better to let them close and paint assisted drone kill them.


Zan, if I may,
since I started to pvp, my entire game changed over night. Not only went my entire focus on pvp fits, it even changed my pve.

When I do missions now, I fly my ships so very different from how I used to emphasis on flying.

We can discuss about a target painter versus guidance computer all day but I think this is a very moot point to discuss over. I can give out all of my fits for everyone to see but they won't do you any good because I won't be at the helm.

Only the helms(wo)man makes a fit, not the fit or the ship.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#45 - 2016-09-09 14:42:57 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Only the helms(wo)man makes a fit, not the fit or the ship.

Not true. Ship, fit, tactics and SP all merge together to form the whole and that is true in PvP as well as PvE.
As you note here even if the players have the exact same skills trained and the same ship / fit personal preferences in how to fly the mission will change the effectiveness of the ship. Likewise even if both players fly the missions the same way the ship / fit and it's performance may be adversely affected by SP or more correctly a lack of SP in a specific area.

I do want to thank you for posting up one of the most clearly stated reasons why there is no such thing as "the best" mission ship.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#46 - 2016-09-10 02:09:30 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Liang dear, you don't need a painter on a CNR. I would suggest one guidance computer, which works at all ranges. And since the cruise missiles buff, they are not terrible anymore, even for pvp.



Paint I have found useful for the dual purpose of aiding drones for the small crap kills. Max skill t2 paint is around 38% sig radius, RF 41%. really helps the drones I find, but as always others mileage may vary.

My take is I just hate the small crap. Beside some oddball rat BS' (gurista BS' can run ECM as an example) e-war is usually on the small crap. I usually want them dead. Faster the better. Sometimes its better to let them close and paint assisted drone kill them.


Zan, if I may,
since I started to pvp, my entire game changed over night. Not only went my entire focus on pvp fits, it even changed my pve.

When I do missions now, I fly my ships so very different from how I used to emphasis on flying.

We can discuss about a target painter versus guidance computer all day but I think this is a very moot point to discuss over. I can give out all of my fits for everyone to see but they won't do you any good because I won't be at the helm.

Only the helms(wo)man makes a fit, not the fit or the ship.



Fair enough.

But pvp side lets not forget paint helps others as well. That we could also have discussions over too though.


Since paint after 3 stacks to uselessness there enters coordinating your people to not have more than 3 paints on a target. Herding cats come to mind there I will grant. Me I always tried to help my brothers or sisters in arms in a phoenix...they never turn down paint party support lol.
Cyclone Organic
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2016-09-10 02:21:34 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:


Fair enough.

But pvp side lets not forget paint helps others as well. That we could also have discussions over too though.


Since paint after 3 stacks to uselessness there enters coordinating your people to not have more than 3 paints on a target. Herding cats come to mind there I will grant. Me I always tried to help my brothers or sisters in arms in a phoenix...they never turn down paint party support lol.


You guys are making a good discussion! From my personal viewpoint, painters or guidance computers, the choice depends on our strategy and preference of fighting.
Currently I have a T2 painter on my Cerberus so that my HAM can deal applicable damage to frigates--- and this also saves me two rig slots for cap control circuits. Another reason I do this is to avoid stack penalty. I already have one missile enhancer in low slot. For the same reason, I will go a totally different way on my CNR.

But the key concept remains the same: be adaptive to various settings, be practical when making budget.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#48 - 2016-09-10 14:08:41 UTC
Cyclone Organic wrote:


But the key concept remains the same: be adaptive to various settings, be practical when making budget.



Wise way to approach this. All I'd recommend is try out all the options debated and see what works for you. And if drone skills lacking if you go MGC route....work on that. Relying on pure drone skill no assist they will be needed for when the frigates, or spider drones in some missions if that route, get by sometimes.

Also of late I am on a faction drone kick. Fits above I'd pay extra for them. Will be a slight dps loss, the drone ehp can be nice enough to balance that imo. A few nights my drones come home banged up. They'd be dead if not faction most likely.


Some rats seem to love shooting drones as primary. Blood raiders come to mind. My rattlesnake (most recent toy project I am working on) can have full room aggro, is throwing paint (supposed to be make them focus more on it) and yet when I drop drones they aggro shift like its cool. Angels on the other hand...seem to not pay them much mind. Gurista sometime shoot them, sometimes ignore them like angels.


Voxinian
#49 - 2016-09-10 17:37:44 UTC
As for missioning... DPS is not everything. I prefer to have a more cosy/lazy setup that has a lot of tank and can just warp in the pocket and sit there. You won't see me quickly in a CNR but often in a CNS instead, love the mid slots. If you don't care (that much) about doing missions as quickly as possible or the Isk/ph thing then all the mid slots is fun to play with, the CNS can be a versatile ship or simply be a huge tank with weapons.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#50 - 2016-09-10 20:36:26 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
As for missioning... DPS is not everything. I prefer to have a more cosy/lazy setup that has a lot of tank and can just warp in the pocket and sit there. You won't see me quickly in a CNR but often in a CNS instead, love the mid slots. If you don't care (that much) about doing missions as quickly as possible or the Isk/ph thing then all the mid slots is fun to play with, the CNS can be a versatile ship or simply be a huge tank with weapons.


The CNR is a pretty relaxing ship to fly as it is. There are very few missions it can't tank with utter ease, especially now that deadspace hardeners and Large Boosters are so cheap. If you're not using Pith B-types, then why not?

Oh and the DPS is the same as the CNS. Application and speed are rather better though.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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