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Conclave of Providence Concludes
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Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#1 - 2016-07-29 20:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Utari Onzo
Greetings pilots.

After many weeks of deliberation, a grand Council made of Providence Holder Alliances and lay Delegates, including esteemed individuals such as Lord Vaari, has concluded in its affairs to shape the future civic administration of the Providence Region, as well as outline decrees and proposals to continue the proper cultivation of Amarr faith and realise the goals of Operation Deliverance.

To coincide with an internal release of the document, I release it here also so fellow Amarr brethren and other interest pilots may see its work.

All proposals and decrees contained within the document are subject to the final veto, where deemed necessary, by the Magistrate of the Providence Region, Equinox Daedalus.

Amarr Victor

The Conclave of Providence Release Document

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#2 - 2016-07-29 20:12:27 UTC
Interesting. I'll give it a read tonight after the Hive excursion.

Thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention, Utari.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-07-29 20:34:07 UTC
Congratulations with your success!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#4 - 2016-07-29 21:51:58 UTC
Impressive and very informative, thank you for sharing Mr Onzo.
Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#5 - 2016-07-30 08:30:55 UTC
In the Name of Light


Dear Mr Onzo

A very praiseworthy document. We can do nothing but appreciate its clear language and its pronounced goal of the in corporation of Providence into the Empire.

We do have a few questions:

1.) If we were to “conduct harmfully” as expressed under §4 in the “Protection of Face” chapter, what would happen? As we see there are no other religions. There is only one true religion. While we may tolerate the tribal hocus-pocus, the misguided belief in the shaker or maker, or whatever superstitions have been made up for various reasons, we find it odd that we, as a holder and a true believer, could be object of an investigation or punishment for attacking a false belief. Blasphemy has to be punished. But calling the tribal “religion” nonsense isn’t blasphemy, although the Federation would probably think otherwise. What is true is true and will remain true forever.

2.) How does the conclave wish to deal with slaves and slave owners of Khanid origin?

3.) Likewise the “Creation of Non-Holder Planetary Administration” chapter raises a question. We find it praiseworthy that the CVA makes no attempt to establish any permanent claims to the worlds entrusted into their hands by the grace of divine guidance and direction. Should it not be cared for, however, that in the NHPA only holders take temporal responsibility? We fear that even the most gifted commoners lack the necessary requirements to administer whole worlds. Providence is developing into a prosperous and fine area of space. Worlds might become more important than a backwater system in century old region of reclaimed space. A holder ruling for generations might find himself out-powered by a mere commoner, and this would clearly be an affront toward the way things were meant to be by the wisdom of the Lord.

Due to the common slave shortage, the Duchy of Palas wishes to contribute five thousand slaves to the ongoing efforts of the CVA. The slaves are skilled fishermen and can contribute to the ongoing colonisation efforts of aquatic and temperate worlds.

By His Light and His Will!
Odelya d’Hanguest, Begum of Palas and Lustrevik etc. pp.
Lady High Chancellor of the Royal Khanid Capsuleer Council
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#6 - 2016-07-30 08:53:09 UTC
Chalk it up to bias, but this is the most disgusting thing I've read in a long time.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#7 - 2016-07-30 09:32:13 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Chalk it up to bias, but this is the most disgusting thing I've read in a long time.


Barbarians often find civilisation to be disgusting.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#8 - 2016-07-30 10:02:38 UTC
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
In the Name of Light


Dear Mr Onzo

A very praiseworthy document. We can do nothing but appreciate its clear language and its pronounced goal of the in corporation of Providence into the Empire.

We do have a few questions:


My humble thanks, my Lady. I shall do my best to answer your questions, but I must reiterate the language used in the document. All of the proposals are exactly that, proposals that require the final blessing of the High Magistrate and the Holder Alliances. All are subject to change or veto in this regard, so the final form any of these proposals take might very well change.

Quote:

1.) If we were to “conduct harmfully” as expressed under §4 in the “Protection of Face” chapter, what would happen? As we see there are no other religions. There is only one true religion. While we may tolerate the tribal hocus-pocus, the misguided belief in the shaker or maker, or whatever superstitions have been made up for various reasons, we find it odd that we, as a holder and a true believer, could be object of an investigation or punishment for attacking a false belief. Blasphemy has to be punished. But calling the tribal “religion” nonsense isn’t blasphemy, although the Federation would probably think otherwise. What is true is true and will remain true forever.


In regards to this document, great pains were made to ensure the supremacy of the One True Faith, but as you must understand Providence is protected by pilots of many faiths. Unlike the Empire, the Kingdom or the Mandate, the Providence region is under a far greater threat of potential full scale invasion and has far fewer resources then the Empire can muster for its defence. Pilots of a heathen origin have admirably served the region for many years, in fact thanks to a soft hand approach a great deal have ended up converting to the Amarr faith.

It was decided, upon the balance of ensuring those pilots who loyally fly for the Region in its defence are given some amount of protections for their efforts, we should adopt a stance inspired by that of the Kingdom through a practice of tolerance and education. In regards to attacks, criticism of the false faiths is not under the purview of what would be considered an attack, but outright insulting other pilots on the basis of their faith, as practiced in private, would be considered a potential breach in ettiquette between allies. In the Kingdom's example, it would be incredibly harmful for Caldari-Kingdom relations were the Khaldari to be treated in a gross negative fashion by all Khanid and True Amarr even in basic conversation.

For punishments, again these are for the Magistrate and/or the Holder Alliances to decide upon, I personally would recommend an escalation method of beginning with warnings leading up to the potential listing of a pilot as KOS.

In the case of potential blasphemy, it would be advisable to inform other clergy of any potential acts of blasphemy or sacrilege by pilots or baseliners so a proper investigation could take place. We wish to ensure a rule of law in the region, rather then rule by vigilantism.

Quote:
2.) How does the conclave wish to deal with slaves and slave owners of Khanid origin?


Exactly the same as it treats the Mandate and the Empire, if one has legal rights of slave ownership in the Kingdom they have the same rights within Providence. Apologies my Lady, but I believe in the great amount of debate that went on this part was missing from the document. It shall be recified post-haste.

Quote:
3.) Likewise the “Creation of Non-Holder Planetary Administration” chapter raises a question. We find it praiseworthy that the CVA makes no attempt to establish any permanent claims to the worlds entrusted into their hands by the grace of divine guidance and direction. Should it not be cared for, however, that in the NHPA only holders take temporal responsibility? We fear that even the most gifted commoners lack the necessary requirements to administer whole worlds. Providence is developing into a prosperous and fine area of space. Worlds might become more important than a backwater system in century old region of reclaimed space. A holder ruling for generations might find himself out-powered by a mere commoner, and this would clearly be an affront toward the way things were meant to be by the wisdom of the Lord.


My Lady, firstly I must comment that in the Mandate and the Kingdom itself, to a certain extend Commoners are able to partake in the Administration of areas themselves. Usually this is done in a subservient role, such as working as a Steward for a Holder, but I am lead to believe it is not uncommon practice for wealthy commoners to be able to create personal asset portfolios.

Secondly, I must state that the High Magistrate of the Providence region himself is a commoner, to which there have yet to be any issues I am aware of among the Lord and Ladies who fly with Providence. These roles are, as you recognise, temporary and therefore subject to termination upon the completion of Operation Deliverance, regardless of the administrator's status.

It was the Conclaves view therefore that this role would be acceptable to place by Merit, considering a number of the Holder Alliances that actually tend to the region's space are lead by commoners, and have been for a number of years. As unusual a case as it may seem to outside nobility, we view the tending of the planets entirely as a caretaking position and administrators would be equal in terms of their power of prestige from any holdings in Providence they are responsible for. Further, as a great many of the citizens in Providence are free colonists, it would be difficult for a commoner born, would be 'Lord' of a Providence Holding to make any personal income from said planet/s.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#9 - 2016-07-30 10:05:39 UTC
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:

Due to the common slave shortage, the Duchy of Palas wishes to contribute five thousand slaves to the ongoing efforts of the CVA. The slaves are skilled fishermen and can contribute to the ongoing colonisation efforts of aquatic and temperate worlds.


My gracious thanks for your generous offer my Lady, may I recommend you inquire with Lord Vaari to ensure their proper distribution to legally recognised Holders?

I hope my previous post, limited as it was by this forum in its size, answered your questions, and again humble thanks to you my Lady for expressing an interest in the results of the Conclave.

Tyrel Toov wrote:
Chalk it up to bias, but this is the most disgusting thing I've read in a long time.


Bias indeed, but your opinion weighs about as much to the region as the metaphorical chalk stick you have used.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-07-30 12:08:07 UTC
I will pray for His Grace always shine on the region!

Amarr Victor!

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Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#11 - 2016-07-30 12:56:02 UTC
Dear Mr Onzo

Thank you very much indeed for your detailed reply. Our concerns have been fully addressed, and we can clearly see that extraordinary circumstances require exceptional measures. We rejoiced you pointed out that while the question of truth remains untouched, the whole matter is not so much about “religious freedom” of any sort, but more about behaving in a respectable manner towards individuals not yet fully touched by the Light. Maybe it can be made clearer that respecting individuals—and their personal beliefs—is an integral part of a proper code of conduct, yet it does not make any statement about those beliefs. This may help to avoid confusion. Yet, we are only a humble and distant observer.

We will indeed be in touch with Lord Vaari concerning the issue of the Palasian slaves.

We remain a most humble servant of the Lord and extend our best wishes and kindest regards to you and pray that the Lord will bless your endeavours and lead them along the path to success increasing His glory!
Odelya d’Hanguest, Begum of Palas and Lustrevik etc. pp.
Lady High Chancellor of the Royal Khanid Capsuleer Council
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2016-07-30 13:00:35 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Greetings pilots.

After many weeks of deliberation, a grand Council made of Providence Holder Alliances and lay Delegates, including esteemed individuals such as Lord Vaari, has concluded in its affairs to shape the future civic administration of the Providence Region, as well as outline decrees and proposals to continue the proper cultivation of Amarr faith and realise the goals of Operation Deliverance.



The Society, both as an observer and as a corporation that operates in part in Providence, was pleased to see the hard work that went into the Conclave, Well done!

Amarr Victor!
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-07-30 14:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
Rodj Blake wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Chalk it up to bias, but this is the most disgusting thing I've read in a long time.


Barbarians often find civilisation to be disgusting.


I think it's the whole "slavery" part.

Honestly, that and the "Reclaiming" (read: convenient permanent cases belli for territorial expansion) are the only problems I have with the Empire.

I really do dig all the black and gold.

To be honest, Utari, there is already plenty of space in the Amarr Empire where slavery is legal and practiced in the manner described here. I think it would be an interesting project for Providence to practice this pseudo-incorporation into all aspects of the Empire except slavery. It could perhaps serve as an economic and social experiment as to whether the claims of the necessity of slavery in Imperial society are true.

I think Providence would gain greater by engaging in such a historic, precedent-setting experiment, and I would even consider living in such a Providence one day, should I ever desire to leave Fade.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#14 - 2016-07-30 15:23:40 UTC
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
Dear Mr Onzo

Thank you very much indeed for your detailed reply. Our concerns have been fully addressed, and we can clearly see that extraordinary circumstances require exceptional measures. We rejoiced you pointed out that while the question of truth remains untouched, the whole matter is not so much about “religious freedom” of any sort, but more about behaving in a respectable manner towards individuals not yet fully touched by the Light. Maybe it can be made clearer that respecting individuals—and their personal beliefs—is an integral part of a proper code of conduct, yet it does not make any statement about those beliefs. This may help to avoid confusion. Yet, we are only a humble and distant observer.


My humble thanks once more for your feedback, my Lady. I shall ensure that the recommendation is passed along to the Holder Alliances who will be responsible for putting the proposals into practice.

Jason Galente wrote:


To be honest, Utari, there is already plenty of space in the Amarr Empire where slavery is legal and practiced in the manner described here. I think it would be an interesting project for Providence to practice this pseudo-incorporation into all aspects of the Empire except slavery. It could perhaps serve as an economic and social experiment as to whether the claims of the necessity of slavery in Imperial society are true.

I think Providence would gain greater by engaging in such a historic, precedent-setting experiment, and I would even consider living in such a Providence one day, should I ever desire to leave Fade.


The idea of barring slavery in all forms within the region was discussed, at length, and eventually rejected. Instead, the Conclave took to the position it has no legal standing to bar legally entitled owners of slaves in the Empire, Kingdom and Mandate, but would restrict any ownership of slaves within the region by individuals with no prior legal basis.

Essentially, we rejected the idea that any and all persons within the Providence region would be allowed to own slaves simply by virtue of being a Providence resident, but due to the nature of jurisdiction we have no say on the rights of Holders and other authorised persons.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#15 - 2016-07-31 00:51:12 UTC
A fascinating and edifying document.

As a Federal Tradesman who does a considerable business within the Empire, I am heartened by the documents contents and tone.

While no system is… perfect, the projection of reason held within is encouraging.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#16 - 2016-08-01 10:01:32 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
A fascinating and edifying document.

As a Federal Tradesman who does a considerable business within the Empire, I am heartened by the documents contents and tone.

While no system is… perfect, the projection of reason held within is encouraging.


I'd tend to agree. I think the achievements of the Providence region have given the rest of the cluster some indication of where a Tash-Murkon administration may take the Empire proper. The acceptance - perhaps tolerance is a better descriptor - of religious freedoms outlined in the document is clearly born from pragmatism. I have hope that in accepting plurality of belief within the theocracy, the seeds of abolition will also find nourishment.


Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
zoolkhan
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
#17 - 2016-08-01 19:20:24 UTC  |  Edited by: zoolkhan
Rodj Blake wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Chalk it up to bias, but this is the most disgusting thing I've read in a long time.


Barbarians often find civilisation to be disgusting.


Dont you worry, one day we will have the Barbarians removed.

I see, your clonebay is still operational. I hope you did not expect me to ignore your stench forever?

See you in space..

(after i complete combat school for reservists living in senior care homes)

Pirate Yours truly, zool.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#18 - 2016-08-02 21:14:07 UTC
Utari - any comment on CVA's eviction from the Amarr Empire?

"Curatores Veritatis Alliance expelled from Amarr Empire
From: Amarr Empire
Sent: 2016.08.02 11:05

Curatores Veritatis Alliance has been expelled from the Amarr Empire faction because the standing of corporation(s) within the alliance is less than the minimum required standing of 0.00. The corporations are:
Catalina Operations and Logistics Division - standings:-0.0400"
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-08-02 23:35:07 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
The corporations are:
Catalina Operations and Logistics Division - standings:-0.0400"


Rekt.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Arrendis
TK Corp
#20 - 2016-08-02 23:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Jason Galente wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
The corporations are:
Catalina Operations and Logistics Division - standings:-0.0400"


Rekt.


Hey, I'm not saying the Empire wasn't excessive in their zealousness... but that's kinda their bag, you know?

(also, you should've gone with 'damn, that's COLD'...)
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