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A question to CCP Falcon

First post
Author
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#101 - 2016-07-26 14:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul.

So if CCP removed player ganking from the gang but upgraded npc belt rats in all high-sec systems so they could and would kill the average anti-tanked mining barge - essentially an NPC non-suicide ganker....This would be a good solution for you?

If it is - then since it is the same end result I would ask why you care if people enjoy ganking? Are you against them having fun?

If it is not - then what exactly *would* you do to "increase risk" for afk miners?

But if they would only make ganking more punished, they would not eliminate it, but make it only a minor inconvenience. Eliminating it completely would be like removing terrorism from real world completely, and that is I think impossible.
So lets compromise on locking them out of high sec for extended periods of time.

Miners would need still to watch out for those bigger and nastier rats of course, but with them should come greater ISK, Dread spawns as a prototype of it?

What I think the development board should really think harder about whole thing.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2016-07-26 14:45:14 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
I am a troll who poses a question in a passive aggressive fashion in order to bend data gathered to my own means.


If you want validation on how awesome you are, get a dog.
You knew the answer before you asked, you just wanted an AUTHORITY to give you what you wanted so you could build a case on how awful things were in your view.

Things are working as intended. CODE. is as effective as they are because nobody can be arsed to take responsibility for their own safety. Ganking is DOWN from where it used to be, we just have more puling screamers crying to high heaven about how ungodly UNFAIR it is that they can't fap or watch youtube while they are effortlessly making ISK in the game because mean people have figured out how to hurt them... and efficiently too. My gawd, that freighter costs BILLIONS it should cost BILLIONS to destroy.

Horse Hockey.

Stop trying to make a case for ISK tanking.
There is no case.
The value of your ship is not the toughness of your ship.
This is one of the very few MMO's out there where the knowledge of the player when it comes to how to play the game vastly outweighs the effectiveness of the numbers on their character sheet.
If a PLAYER has figured out a way to do murder to a ship that is VASTLY more expensive than the ship they are flying that is not an exploit. That is them being clever, and clever merits reward far more than dumb and lazy.
No trophies for participation, no cookies for attendance, NO SPRINKLES ON THE ICE CREAM FOR LOSERS.

It is now 'deal with it o'clock'.... do you know what time it is?


Sounds menacing.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#103 - 2016-07-26 14:45:18 UTC
It's turning into farking Groundhog Day around here.



There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#104 - 2016-07-26 14:47:00 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Seems like CCP cant just get all PvE right after all those years. They did some things to research it, but it was too little and were always concerned about only barely holding those players with engineer tinkerer things. What thery were thinking is that players wil entertain themselves when they throw them inside the harsh realities of EVE. All of those decisions in long run started to affecty their ability to maintain subscriptions in stable numbers. Not much evolution?

This is somewhat sad.


What's sad is that you don't get EVE. EVE is all about entertaining yourself (and people entertaining each other) rather than NPCs doing all the heavy lifting like in other MMOs. If it's other MMOs style you want, why are you here instead of there?

I know why I'm here. EVE don't try to hold your hand or tell you a story (there is story telling, but those stories are for role players and safely ignored by the rest of us, I don't give a flip about who the Amarr Emperor is lol). EVE lets you make your own story and memorable moments, even with PVE. If I wanted the things you seem to want, I would have quit EVE and kept playing Star Trek Online (which is an episodic pve focused game, and it even lets you walk around planets stations and ships, something people keep begging for here).

Long story short, EVE is fine (despite all the "blah blah subscriptions" noise, we've been hearing that for 13 years), it's just not something you like or can adapt to.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#105 - 2016-07-26 14:47:09 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
It's turning into farking Groundhog Day around here.





You're right, I kindly ask this topic to be closed so I can write in the correct place as suggested.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#106 - 2016-07-26 14:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Omar Alharazaad
Spectrum Reborn
#107 - 2016-07-26 14:49:26 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
I am a troll who poses a question in a passive aggressive fashion in order to bend data gathered to my own means.


If you want validation on how awesome you are, get a dog.
You knew the answer before you asked, you just wanted an AUTHORITY to give you what you wanted so you could build a case on how awful things were in your view.

Things are working as intended. CODE. is as effective as they are because nobody can be arsed to take responsibility for their own safety. Ganking is DOWN from where it used to be, we just have more puling screamers crying to high heaven about how ungodly UNFAIR it is that they can't fap or watch youtube while they are effortlessly making ISK in the game because mean people have figured out how to hurt them... and efficiently too. My gawd, that freighter costs BILLIONS it should cost BILLIONS to destroy.

Horse Hockey.

Stop trying to make a case for ISK tanking.
There is no case.
The value of your ship is not the toughness of your ship.
This is one of the very few MMO's out there where the knowledge of the player when it comes to how to play the game vastly outweighs the effectiveness of the numbers on their character sheet.
If a PLAYER has figured out a way to do murder to a ship that is VASTLY more expensive than the ship they are flying that is not an exploit. That is them being clever, and clever merits reward far more than dumb and lazy.
No trophies for participation, no cookies for attendance, NO SPRINKLES ON THE ICE CREAM FOR LOSERS.

It is now 'deal with it o'clock'.... do you know what time it is?


Sounds menacing.

No. Not menacing. A wake up call. It is what it is. You can choose to accept it, you can choose to walk away from it, or you can choose to try to change it. The last bit is the only path that involves external resistance. Most of us love it how it is, or at least have learned to accept it for it's true nature. Trying to change it's nature to fit your preconceived notions of what should be will result in opposition, scorn and poop flinging. It's been this way for a long time and hopefully will remain so for a long time to come.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2016-07-26 14:57:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
I am a troll who poses a question in a passive aggressive fashion in order to bend data gathered to my own means.


If you want validation on how awesome you are, get a dog.
You knew the answer before you asked, you just wanted an AUTHORITY to give you what you wanted so you could build a case on how awful things were in your view.

Things are working as intended. CODE. is as effective as they are because nobody can be arsed to take responsibility for their own safety. Ganking is DOWN from where it used to be, we just have more puling screamers crying to high heaven about how ungodly UNFAIR it is that they can't fap or watch youtube while they are effortlessly making ISK in the game because mean people have figured out how to hurt them... and efficiently too. My gawd, that freighter costs BILLIONS it should cost BILLIONS to destroy.

Horse Hockey.

Stop trying to make a case for ISK tanking.
There is no case.
The value of your ship is not the toughness of your ship.
This is one of the very few MMO's out there where the knowledge of the player when it comes to how to play the game vastly outweighs the effectiveness of the numbers on their character sheet.
If a PLAYER has figured out a way to do murder to a ship that is VASTLY more expensive than the ship they are flying that is not an exploit. That is them being clever, and clever merits reward far more than dumb and lazy.
No trophies for participation, no cookies for attendance, NO SPRINKLES ON THE ICE CREAM FOR LOSERS.

It is now 'deal with it o'clock'.... do you know what time it is?


Sounds menacing.

No. Not menacing. A wake up call. It is what it is. You can choose to accept it, you can choose to walk away from it, or you can choose to try to change it. The last bit is the only path that involves external resistance. Most of us love it how it is, or at least have learned to accept it for it's true nature. Trying to change it's nature to fit your preconceived notions of what should be will result in opposition, scorn and poop flinging. It's been this way for a long time and hopefully will remain so for a long time to come.


I would agree with some, except I think there is some exploitation ( maybe cause by underpowered enemy ships, but I will have the answer in another place I think ) and I don't believe a so huge kill ratio (with this isk number, not taken alone obviously) doesn't involve a huge Isk gaining.

So it's a very big trophy, if someones offers me an activity where I can play one month and play for free the next 15 months I would consider it a big trophy.

That said, please close this post :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#109 - 2016-07-26 15:01:43 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:

But ganking was not so prevalent in the whole narration, actually everyone I ask thinks its gradually became worser. But if it isnt true, and data speak against this, there is something more than numbers and data, its feelings people have about that, what makes them not try the game in the first place. And if they try and are disgusted, well, you get those threads.

If ganking must be in this game, at least shift narration, and make act of it more punished, because its overdestructive I think.


Why should the single most punished and nerfed activity in the game be even more punished and nerfed?
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#110 - 2016-07-26 15:07:13 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul.

So if CCP removed player ganking from the gang but upgraded npc belt rats in all high-sec systems so they could and would kill the average anti-tanked mining barge - essentially an NPC non-suicide ganker....This would be a good solution for you?

If it is - then since it is the same end result I would ask why you care if people enjoy ganking? Are you against them having fun?

If it is not - then what exactly *would* you do to "increase risk" for afk miners?

But if they would only make ganking more punished, they would not eliminate it, but make it only a minor inconvenience. Eliminating it completely would be like removing terrorism from real world completely, and that is I think impossible.
So lets compromise on locking them out of high sec for extended periods of time.

Miners would need still to watch out for those bigger and nastier rats of course, but with them should come greater ISK, Dread spawns as a prototype of it?

What I think the development board should really think harder about whole thing.

Well then I will ask you the same question I recently asked someone else:

Quote:
Would your stiffer penalties apply to people on their first/second offense, or would the first few ganks be forgiven?

Because if you forgive the first few ganks - obviously you leave a loophole for people to exploit....And if it is tied to security status they can just use tags to buy that back...

But if you *don't* forgive the first few ganks - you are going to shut down the entire EVE career of every new player who decides to see what happens when they set that safety to red and shoot somebody on the rookie system undock (which is quite a few of them last time I checked)... This is true to real-life, but I'm not sure it is a good idea in a game for one foolish mistake to essentially end their lives.

Either way it seems like a flawed system, and you might as well just skip it and argue directly for complete removal of ganks in high-sec from the game mechanics. CCP still won't listen to you (yet, anyway) - but it has less unintended consequences that directly hit new players... (though I suspect it might cause some chaos in the EVE economy)

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Omar Alharazaad
Spectrum Reborn
#111 - 2016-07-26 15:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
wait wait... I got this one.
Short list, not including the zero sum bowhead hyperdunking situation.
Massive hull boosts for ALL ships.
Added low slots so freighters could fit a tank.
Damage control systems made passive so they even work while autopiloting...
Rebalance of a number of specific ships, which my drunk ass wont bother going into detail on.

That's your short list of RECENT nerfs to ganking.
Oh, and for those who are mathematically impaired, almost ALL of these changes/features/nerfs involve making a 'non-combatant' ship harder to kill.... resulting in a larger amount of DPS to gank them before CONCORD drops the hammer on the involved. At the least this means better/more expensive fit ships to the job, on average this means more ships to do the job... in other words it's more difficult.

on to economy. if **** does not blow up, people will not buy more ****. it is known.
That is all.

Actually, that's not all.
OP is now somewhat squirmy in the realization that they have truly stepped in it.
They took a sniff and did not like the smell.
I hope our ISD in all their sadistic glory move this to C&P so that the wolves may feast at their leisure.
That is all Twisted

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#112 - 2016-07-26 15:21:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
wait wait... I got this one.
Short list, not including the zero sum bowhead hyperdunking situation.
Massive hull boosts for ALL ships.
Added low slots so freighters could fit a tank.
Damage control systems made passive so they even work while autopiloting...
Rebalance of a number of specific ships, which my drunk ass wont bother going into detail on.

That's your short list of RECENT nerfs to ganking.
Oh, and for those who are mathematically impaired, almost ALL of these changes/features/nerfs involve making a 'non-combatant' ship harder to kill.... resulting in a larger amount of DPS to gank them before CONCORD drops the hammer on the involved. At the least this means better/more expensive fit ships to the job, on average this means more ships to do the job... in other words it's more difficult.

on to economy. if **** does not blow up, people will not buy more ****. it is known.
That is all.

Actually, that's not all.
OP is now somewhat squirmy in the realization that they have truly stepped in it.
They took a sniff and did not like the smell.
I hope our ISD in all their sadistic glory move this to C&P so that the wolves may feast at their leisure.
That is all Twisted


mmm

on to economy. if **** does not blow up, people will not buy more ****. it is known.
That is all.

This is not good and sounds to me very bad.

I like the idea of blowing up ships, but I don't like the idea that ships are to be blown up at all costs.

Sounds like some mechanics are left there because they help to clean players of money, sounds bad.

I really hope it's not like that and I imagine "healthy" game developers would not allow something like that.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#113 - 2016-07-26 15:24:48 UTC
Oh, no. I think I should clarify that what you consider nerf to ganking was in fact only a smoke courtain for everyone from CCP. Boost to tank of ships only need more gaker alts to be there. This alone was not to make it less prevalent in effect. Fail from CCP side. Changes actually are in effect not to make it less prevalent, it is clear that the system dont punish you for gank severely to make it less prevalent. So actually ganks are repetitive, with the same characters over and over in short periods of time. There is no consequences powerful enough in effect that would prohibit that, and if you think this current situation punishes ganker, its not clearly as harsh as should be to shift the narration.
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2016-07-26 15:24:59 UTC
Falcon Aka Verone used to be the CEO of Veto corp.

They where not just a bunch of gankers. they used to fly and fight gang style all the time. had some really good fun with them bakc in the day when iw as in SF.

so all these claims they where just gankers killing expensive ships with cheap stuff is just wrong. they trolled around in low sec wrecking what they could.
Omar Alharazaad
Spectrum Reborn
#115 - 2016-07-26 15:25:20 UTC
actually that's how the economy works.
if people do not lose things then they have no reason to buy those things.
once you have all the things you want and you don't lose any of those things all that's left is the operating costs of ammunition and whatnot.
Without a steady loss off assets you're going to end up with the economy crapping it's own guts out in short order.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Omar Alharazaad
Spectrum Reborn
#116 - 2016-07-26 15:29:04 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Oh, no. I think I should clarify that what you consider nerf to ganking was in fact only a smoke courtain for everyone from CCP. Boost to tank of ships only need more gaker alts to be there. This alone was not to make it less prevalent in effect. Fail from CCP side. Changes actually are in effect not to make it less prevalent, it is clear that the system dont punish you for gank severely to make it less prevalent. So actually ganks are repetitive, with the same characters over and over in short periods of time. There is no consequences powerful enough in effect that would prohibit that, and if you think this current situation punishes ganker, its not clearly as harsh as should be to shift the narration.



Your view is no less skewed than my own. You state alts as if that's somehting meaniful when it comes to application. In truth it doesn't matter if a character is an alt or not, it's a subscribed account. So long as they aren't doing the whole broadcasting of macros thing that the folks involved are ostensibly and vehemently opposed to, I don't see how that's relevant. More characters are needed to do the job, that is by definition an increase in difficulty... regardless of any spin applied.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#117 - 2016-07-26 15:29:51 UTC
Ugh, maybe I should make something else.
Like read a blog where CCP writes:

Quote:
Greetings again honorable spaceship warriors.

No word about gankers, fhew...
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#118 - 2016-07-26 15:32:36 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Ugh, maybe I should make something else.
Like read a blog where CCP writes:

Quote:
Greetings again honorable spaceship warriors.

No word about gankers, fhew...

I can't help but notice that you are ignoring my question.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#119 - 2016-07-26 15:33:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
actually that's how the economy works.
if people do not lose things then they have no reason to buy those things.
once you have all the things you want and you don't lose any of those things all that's left is the operating costs of ammunition and whatnot.
Without a steady loss off assets you're going to end up with the economy crapping it's own guts out in short order.


I don't agree.

If Developers decide to making some players ( noobs of less expert ) very very weak and exposed to clean big amount of money that the economy cannot absorb by itself it means this is absolutely not a sandbox.

They claim it's a sandbox so I cannot believe some mechanics are left there to absorb unspended money.

I think it's only some badly programmed mechanics.

And it's different from wardecs, because wardecced can use pvp ships and they can fight, wardecs have the problem of the one week pause that's often asked by leaders of "pacifist" corps, it's another thing even if the links I saw posted gave me an idea of how much wardeccer alliance can gain in term of isks and it's something amazing too.


It's like seeing in this game there are two huge farmers heavily milking most of the cows:

Farmer 1 : Suicide gankers

Farmer 2 : Wardeccers

Farmer 1 has the biggest of the advantages, farmer 2 has less advantages but still can gain huge amount of money while they still need to fight.

All other players ( normal alliances, explorers, Fwers and so on ) on the contrary have a fair game experience gaining according to their effords.
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#120 - 2016-07-26 15:40:21 UTC
Burn
High
Sec
To
The
Ground

AFK miners YouTube'ing in there 1/4 billion boats need to be lit-up like candles...


Only through destruction can we have creation...

All praise James 315
All hail the CODE and their holy mission to save HiSec
All bow before the nobility of the Code and their saint agents.

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."