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A question to CCP Falcon

First post
Author
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#81 - 2016-07-26 13:57:13 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Forum ECM best ECM.
I could be doing murder right now, but instead I'm typing on here.

Jenn, have you heard the holy gospel of suspect baiting?
I have pamphlets.
It's guilt-free PVP... they choose to shoot. You walk away with a clean conscience, and a wicked adrenaline rush :)

I do love suspect baiting. For the true adrenaline rush you need to hold yourself to a certain standard and not up-ship or bring in alts to help yourself unless they go crazy in over-shipping/blobbing you though - at least for me I only get the adrenaline rush if there is a fairly real chance I might lose if they play their cards right.


Also as people are people, and this is EVE - I do find they still always try to make you feel guilty when you win. They can blob you 5-10v1 and if you just barely win they'll guilt trip you over picking on "noobs" like them...though their attempts to brag if they win are almost as bad. I generally just ignore the local chat for the most part lol.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#82 - 2016-07-26 14:01:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
baltec1 wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:


Equally they are not a profit making organisation, they are more like terrorists.

Terrorism is not about targeting greedy and stupid. Its about spreading fear and terror, hence the term Terrorism. Please be exact next time and post they are just terrorists.


Thats exactly what they target.

Code started out as a protest to nerfs to barge ganking, over the years it has evolved as more and more nerfs have landed. Now they are practically role playing a religion where they view to greedy and daft bear in highsec as the devil and try to purge what they see as the unclean.

This once protest group now fanatical terrorist group are now more or less the only risk left in highsec, which in itself is rather upsetting.

I think risk in High sec should come from PvE and more subtle forms of PvP rather than full blown gankers threat.
People see it as clever use of CCP mechanics, no matter how broken they are for them, its still upsetting to be ganked by these people and a need of justice is not fulfilled for them. These are characters who primary concern was to be PvE player, protected by system, like most people are. I know its "not a game for them" but its niche that is left then, and it seems to become ever nicher I think. Just look a t the numbers. I was mildly concerned year ago, now I am more.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#83 - 2016-07-26 14:04:52 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:

I think risk in High sec should come from PvE and more subtle forms of PvP rather than full blown gankers threat.
People see it as clever use of CCP mechanics, no matter how broken they are for them, its still upsetting to be ganked by these people and a need of justice is not fulfilled for them. These are characters who primary concern was to be PvE player, protected from system, like most people are. I know its "not a game for them" but its niche that is left then, and it seems to become ever nicher I think. Just look a t the numbers. I was mildly concerned year ago, now I am more.



Eve was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was a hell of a lot easier and there was a number of other ways to get pvp in highsec that don't exist anymore.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2016-07-26 14:06:14 UTC
ISD Max Trix wrote:
CCP Falcon has outlined his thoughts on EVE Here. If you have a suggestion on improving a game mechanic please feel free to post it in Player Features and Ideas.

A note on Kill boards: Zkillboard is a third party site. CCP does not endorse any third party site and can not contest to its accuracy.


So please can you give me a reliable source regarding this topic?

I only used this website so far, I don't know others.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#85 - 2016-07-26 14:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
baltec1 wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:

I think risk in High sec should come from PvE and more subtle forms of PvP rather than full blown gankers threat.
People see it as clever use of CCP mechanics, no matter how broken they are for them, its still upsetting to be ganked by these people and a need of justice is not fulfilled for them. These are characters who primary concern was to be PvE player, protected from system, like most people are. I know its "not a game for them" but its niche that is left then, and it seems to become ever nicher I think. Just look a t the numbers. I was mildly concerned year ago, now I am more.



Eve was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was a hell of a lot easier and there was a number of other ways to get pvp in highsec that don't exist anymore.

But ganking was not so prevalent in the whole narration, actually everyone I ask thinks its gradually became worser. But if it isnt true, and data speak against this, there is something more than numbers and data, its feelings people have about that, what makes them not try the game in the first place. And if they try and are disgusted, well, you get those threads.

If ganking must be in this game, at least shift narration, and make act of it more punished, because its overdestructive I think.
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
#86 - 2016-07-26 14:09:04 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Forum ECM best ECM.
I could be doing murder right now, but instead I'm typing on here.

Jenn, have you heard the holy gospel of suspect baiting?
I have pamphlets.
It's guilt-free PVP... they choose to shoot. You walk away with a clean conscience, and a wicked adrenaline rush :)

I do love suspect baiting. For the true adrenaline rush you need to hold yourself to a certain standard and not up-ship or bring in alts to help yourself unless they go crazy in over-shipping/blobbing you though - at least for me I only get the adrenaline rush if there is a fairly real chance I might lose if they play their cards right.


Also as people are people, and this is EVE - I do find they still always try to make you feel guilty when you win. They can blob you 5-10v1 and if you just barely win they'll guilt trip you over picking on "noobs" like them...though their attempts to brag if they win are almost as bad. I generally just ignore the local chat for the most part lol.


I always have taken a bit of pride in my approach. What you see is what you get.
I have used an off grid booster before, but I kinda stopped because that ship moved slower than my helios.
Instead it's always been the weird trap. That incursus, that enyo, that ishkur... is really going to murder you to death and maybe more.... by itself. They pulled the trigger, you react. My favorite fights I've lost, but I've walked away with a sense of real accomplishment in others... the incursus that popped the 1.3 bil Orthrus, the Ishkur that killed a Kronos... the Fed Navy Comet that compelled the Apocalypse Navy Issue to abandon ship and bail, allowing me my first taste of grand theft battleship.

This is only relevant to the OP in that the bottom line is that the amount of ISK invested in a venture of Nefarious Porpoise has NO relation to the amount of ISK that is either destroyed or absconded with by said evil sea mammal.... or anyone else for that matter. People do dumb things, it's up to other people to capitalize on those things.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#87 - 2016-07-26 14:12:35 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Forum ECM best ECM.
I could be doing murder right now, but instead I'm typing on here.

Jenn, have you heard the holy gospel of suspect baiting?
I have pamphlets.
It's guilt-free PVP... they choose to shoot. You walk away with a clean conscience, and a wicked adrenaline rush :)


Thanks for the advice, but I learned my lesson a long time ago. That lesson is that I am much happier when I avoid Empire space all together. The only 2 characters out of 11 total I have left in high sec are a hauling alt and my "emergency back up isk guy" (my incursion toon, that I only use if I can't do anything else or just don't feel like doing null sec or WH space that night). I just flat hate the mechanics of low sec (pvp and pve) and well, high sec is high sec.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#88 - 2016-07-26 14:14:04 UTC
And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#89 - 2016-07-26 14:16:34 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

PS: Passive aggressive rarely works on internet forums - you would save yourself a lot of time/effort if you just took the direct approach and said you think it is broken and should be changed. Either way though, your thread will be locked, and you aren't going to get what you want.


DUDE (or DUDETTE), that is also one of my pet peeves.

Like when someone creates a thread with a 'question' like "Is {Thing they don't like} too powerful/unbalanced?" then go on to answer their own question....of course it is or they wouldn't be making that thread..
Makes my teeth grind, because it's them trying to appear 'reasonable' when they have already made up their mind. It's like saying "I don't like this, and this is why" is hard for them.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#90 - 2016-07-26 14:17:20 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul.

the risk in pve is someone coming and shooting you in the face,
any inherently risky pve gets picked apart and gamed within hours of going live on sisi so that by the time it hits tq we know how to run it (almost) risk free.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#91 - 2016-07-26 14:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
ISD Max Trix wrote:
CCP Falcon has outlined his thoughts on EVE Here. If you have a suggestion on improving a game mechanic please feel free to post it in Player Features and Ideas.

A note on Kill boards: Zkillboard is a third party site. CCP does not endorse any third party site and can not contest to its accuracy.


And again, thanking you for your answer, I think all the information players gave me can be summed up like that:

If you belong to an alliance focused on suicidal gank you can have:

- 1:30 isk ship killing ratio ( from a not official source, I hope I can update it from an official source)

- If you loot ( unsure about it actually ) let's say 50% of the ship value of the ships you kill the ratio is 1:15 so every month that you play you can hopefully plex ( or play for free) the next 15 months.

- It's a very safe activity because you do it in hisec, you kill players that are usually also insulted and consedered stupid players, you have no consequences and you can decide the engagement .

- There is no fight involved, you attack them and kill them in their expensive ship and you die for Concord in a cheap ship ( and I imagine you become suspect so you can even safe the capsule if you warp away from other players quickly because Concord I think don't kill your capsule)

If someone says me I can kill a 300mil isk battleship with my 10mil condor risk free with no fight in hisec and ask someone to loot the ship and share the loot I think I would be glad to do it.

So I think:

- 10mil ship is so powerful, incredibly powerful, a real joke.

- 300mil ship is weak, incredibly weak, a real joke.

Or there is some serious game mechanic exploitation

Or alliance players are the most intelligent in the wolrd while the ganked ones are the most stupid in the world.

But the last one is unlikely, I always tend to think persons are all average intelligent.

Turning the topic in the correct place soon.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#92 - 2016-07-26 14:23:57 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul.


What you want is another game. That is the underlying problem here, if you don['t like what EVE is already doing you aren't going to like anything else either.

PVE in EVE is fine btw (don't listen to the "make better pve" crowd, they don't know what they are talking about, some of the loudest "we want more PVE" people are the same people who consume the new PVE content and go right back to saving Damsels or running Forsaken Hubs 3 days later).

EVE's version of PVE caters to the Engineers and Tinkerer type player ie it's great for people who like to tackle problems in new ways, like completing missions in odd ships or doing DED plexes in tanked industrial ships (extreme examples). Some of the people who claim to want "better" PVE actually want "story time on rails" pve like you have in other MMOs. CCP dabbled in some of that with Epic Arcs and COSMOS before that. It didn't work, and CCP isn't good at providing that kind of episodic/always needing to be refreshed content anyways.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#93 - 2016-07-26 14:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul.

the risk in pve is someone coming and shooting you in the face,
any inherently risky pve gets picked apart and gamed within hours of going live on sisi so that by the time it hits tq we know how to run it (almost) risk free.

So to me it seems its weak PvE. Static and repetitive. Sorry CCP. the most joy I get is when my ship is barely holding tank and I have to warp out to survive, and I survive and am happy. Things I never actually had in this particular site at that moment. It is engaging. Another thing is other players that are inside sites to run them. They may steal the loot, and that is something what adds danger to all of it.

These are all good things, same as ISK/RISK corelation, when the ISK is not available without RISK, and I am talkinag about real RISK, random, dangerous thing.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#94 - 2016-07-26 14:28:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul.

the risk in pve is someone coming and shooting you in the face,
any inherently risky pve gets picked apart and gamed within hours of going live on sisi so that by the time it hits tq we know how to run it (almost) risk free.


CCP even tried to get past that with Drifters and Drifter Incursions. That made them so god-awful powerful you couldn't 'game' them like that.

Result? no one I know even screws with Drifters.

Drifters (and the new 'events' except Crimson Harvest, which was actually good) should be an object lesson for CCP, that lesson being "don't waste time on new pve junk that next to no one will use". Burner Missions worked, especially in high sec, as did adding capital spawns to null sec pve content. CCP should do more stuff like that imo.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#95 - 2016-07-26 14:31:28 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
ISD Max Trix wrote:
CCP Falcon has outlined his thoughts on EVE Here. If you have a suggestion on improving a game mechanic please feel free to post it in Player Features and Ideas.

A note on Kill boards: Zkillboard is a third party site. CCP does not endorse any third party site and can not contest to its accuracy.


So please can you give me a reliable source regarding this topic?

I only used this website so far, I don't know others.

Your original post stated that you used zkill...

Obvious troll is obvious, stop pretending to be a new player "asking a question" already.


Lucy Lollipops wrote:


So I think:

- 10mil ship is so powerful, incredibly powerful, a real joke.

- 300mil ship is weak, incredibly weak, a real joke.

Or there is some serious game mechanic exploitation

Or alliance players are the most intelligent in the wolrd while the ganked ones are the most stupid in the world.

But the last one is unlikely, I always tend to think persons are all average intelligent.

Turning the topic in the correct place soon.

Or the 300 mil ship is flown by an idiot...and the intelligence of the 10 mil ship pilot is irrelevant because he is killing an idiot.

As for your isk ratio, I picked a random person from the top 10 in EVE to compare with your supposedly randomly selected alliance:

This Man Flies 60% solo and 40% in gangs, and has a 100 to 1 isk efficiency Ratio. Start ranting about how broken he is please.

It needs to be addressed urgently...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#96 - 2016-07-26 14:33:34 UTC
Seems like CCP cant just get all PvE right after all those years. They did some things to research it, but it was too little and were always concerned about only barely holding those players with engineer tinkerer things. What thery were thinking is that players wil entertain themselves when they throw them inside the harsh realities of EVE. All of those decisions in long run started to affecty their ability to maintain subscriptions in stable numbers. Not much evolution?

This is somewhat sad.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#97 - 2016-07-26 14:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
ISD Max Trix wrote:
CCP Falcon has outlined his thoughts on EVE Here. If you have a suggestion on improving a game mechanic please feel free to post it in Player Features and Ideas.

A note on Kill boards: Zkillboard is a third party site. CCP does not endorse any third party site and can not contest to its accuracy.


So please can you give me a reliable source regarding this topic?

I only used this website so far, I don't know others.

Your original post stated that you used zkill...

Obvious troll is obvious, stop pretending to be a new player "asking a question" already.


Lucy Lollipops wrote:


So I think:

- 10mil ship is so powerful, incredibly powerful, a real joke.

- 300mil ship is weak, incredibly weak, a real joke.

Or there is some serious game mechanic exploitation

Or alliance players are the most intelligent in the wolrd while the ganked ones are the most stupid in the world.

But the last one is unlikely, I always tend to think persons are all average intelligent.

Turning the topic in the correct place soon.

Or the 300 mil ship is flown by an idiot...and the intelligence of the 10 mil ship pilot is irrelevant because he is killing an idiot.

As for your isk ratio, I picked a random person from the top 10 in EVE to compare with your supposedly randomly selected alliance:

This Man Flies 60% solo and 40% in gangs, and has a 100 to 1 isk efficiency Ratio. Start ranting about how broken he is please.

It needs to be addressed urgently...


You can believe me or not, I'm not a long time player.

Zkill I use because I began to try factional warfare and I use zkill to see what kind of fitting those fw players use ( I see the loss ships to see it )

That player you linked I suppose I already saw him in the top players and from the location of his kills and his alliance I think he belongs to the other topic that is discussed often, the wardeccers.

Edit: to call persons idiots is rude. Maybe they simply don't know exploited mechanics, if mechanics are exploited, or they don't know their ships are extremely underpowered for their cost.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#98 - 2016-07-26 14:37:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Nana Skalski wrote:
And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul.

So if CCP removed player ganking from the game but upgraded npc belt rats in all high-sec systems so they could and would kill the average anti-tanked mining barge - essentially an NPC non-suicide ganker....This would be a good solution for you?

If it is - then since it is the same end result I would ask why you care if people enjoy ganking? Are you against them having fun?

If it is not - then what exactly *would* you do to "increase risk" for afk miners?

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#99 - 2016-07-26 14:40:23 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:

That player you linked I suppose I already saw him in the top players and from the location of his kills and his alliance I think he belongs to the other topic that is discussed often, the wardeccers.

This one is a low-sec pirate - similar to FW, just less formal.
This one lives in 0.0 space...

All with higher isk efficiency than CODE...

Are they all broken too? Perhaps we should just trash the entire game and start over?

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
#100 - 2016-07-26 14:40:37 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
I am a troll who poses a question in a passive aggressive fashion in order to bend data gathered to my own means.


If you want validation on how awesome you are, get a dog.
You knew the answer before you asked, you just wanted an AUTHORITY to give you what you wanted so you could build a case on how awful things were in your view.

Things are working as intended. CODE. is as effective as they are because nobody can be arsed to take responsibility for their own safety. Ganking is DOWN from where it used to be, we just have more puling screamers crying to high heaven about how ungodly UNFAIR it is that they can't fap or watch youtube while they are effortlessly making ISK in the game because mean people have figured out how to hurt them... and efficiently too. My gawd, that freighter costs BILLIONS it should cost BILLIONS to destroy.

Horse Hockey.

Stop trying to make a case for ISK tanking.
There is no case.
The value of your ship is not the toughness of your ship.
This is one of the very few MMO's out there where the knowledge of the player when it comes to how to play the game vastly outweighs the effectiveness of the numbers on their character sheet.
If a PLAYER has figured out a way to do murder to a ship that is VASTLY more expensive than the ship they are flying that is not an exploit. That is them being clever, and clever merits reward far more than dumb and lazy.
No trophies for participation, no cookies for attendance, NO SPRINKLES ON THE ICE CREAM FOR LOSERS.

It is now 'deal with it o'clock'.... do you know what time it is?

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.