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[AUGUST - 118.7] Serpentis Capital Tweaks

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zluq zabaa
Inhumanum Legionis
#41 - 2016-08-05 18:13:33 UTC
The change to build costs is not even half-hearted, it's an insult to everyone who ran the event for the BPC. If you - CCP - intended the Vehement solely for use by very big alliances or superrich individuals who don't care about the build costs, then please just keep the current cost of about 40B. Because who cares anyway?

Don't pretend you doing something better by lowering the price to an amount that makes it a bit cheaper for the few that will build it anyway, while still totally unrealstic (price alone or price vs. special risk) for everyone else.

tl;dr: keep the current build costs or actually make a change that counts, or to name numbers: 5 times the Moros, max.

(which still would not really be any kind of reward for the event, because: here guys, have a BPC that others can get from LP stores, you only need another 10B to build it --- wtf CCP? what about new players, medium new players; you do realize they still exist, yeah?)

p.s. after hearing that the build costs for the Vehement would be going down, I was starting to change my mind about how bad the current event is ... just to end up now with the same realization, that CCPs reaction to constructive criticism regarding the events, their risks and rewards, is to either not read it or not learn from it
Cade Windstalker
#42 - 2016-08-05 20:16:41 UTC
zluq zabaa wrote:
The change to build costs is not even half-hearted, it's an insult to everyone who ran the event for the BPC. If you - CCP - intended the Vehement solely for use by very big alliances or superrich individuals who don't care about the build costs, then please just keep the current cost of about 40B. Because who cares anyway?

Don't pretend you doing something better by lowering the price to an amount that makes it a bit cheaper for the few that will build it anyway, while still totally unrealstic (price alone or price vs. special risk) for everyone else.

tl;dr: keep the current build costs or actually make a change that counts, or to name numbers: 5 times the Moros, max.

(which still would not really be any kind of reward for the event, because: here guys, have a BPC that others can get from LP stores, you only need another 10B to build it --- wtf CCP? what about new players, medium new players; you do realize they still exist, yeah?)

p.s. after hearing that the build costs for the Vehement would be going down, I was starting to change my mind about how bad the current event is ... just to end up now with the same realization, that CCPs reaction to constructive criticism regarding the events, their risks and rewards, is to either not read it or not learn from it


There are plenty of things in the game for new and intermediate players, not everything should be easily accessible. Things like Titans, Supers, and Faction Capitals can serve as aspirational goals for players to strive towards when everything else is already well within reach.

Play this game for a few years, even casually, and there's very little that can't be gotten just by throwing money at it :)
Antony Ottig
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2016-08-05 21:10:25 UTC
Quote:
There are plenty of things in the game for new and intermediate players, not everything should be easily accessible. Things like Titans, Supers, and Faction Capitals can serve as aspirational goals for players to strive towards when everything else is already well within reach.

But supers are cheaper than vehement and have better tank, better dps, better everything.
Big Bangers
Disruptive Tendencies
#44 - 2016-08-06 20:54:40 UTC
30 percent build cost reductions are not on tq at the moment with this august patch??
Cade Windstalker
#45 - 2016-08-07 23:21:23 UTC
Big Bangers wrote:
30 percent build cost reductions are not on tq at the moment with this august patch??


Coming on the 9th...
Tifida
Doomheim
#46 - 2016-08-08 07:50:31 UTC
Ok. i read all topic and say what i think about new amazing ship ))

CCP give much blueprint to people. Wait 30 day and CCP looking we do very nice ship how much building this ship in 30 day. i may answer ZERO )))
Why people not building that amazing ship?? ahh maybe too much isk?? hm we doo sale 30% ok all BUILD it now.

No way you will see people didnt do this. and dont get a much ship for get more fun.

Look
Megatron cost = 200 mil isk
Vindicator cost = 500 mil isk

Moros cost = 2 bil isk
Vehement cos = 30 bil isk ( now ) before patch 45 bil isk. Oo''l

Why ?? WHY?? ))

If real you need do and people go get mass build and use ship in PVE and PVP and we will see much kill on killboard and much fun.

Megatron cost = 200 mil isk
Vindicator cost = 500 mil isk

Moros cost = 2 bil isk
Vehement cos = 5-6 bil isk

Stop greed give people nice ship for play and fun. Think about this.
Sorry for my bad ENG.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2016-08-08 12:20:47 UTC
Tifida wrote:
Ok. i read all topic and say what i think about new amazing ship ))

CCP give much blueprint to people. Wait 30 day and CCP looking we do very nice ship how much building this ship in 30 day. i may answer ZERO )))
Why people not building that amazing ship?? ahh maybe too much isk?? hm we doo sale 30% ok all BUILD it now.

No way you will see people didnt do this. and dont get a much ship for get more fun.

Look
Megatron cost = 200 mil isk
Vindicator cost = 500 mil isk

Moros cost = 2 bil isk
Vehement cos = 30 bil isk ( now ) before patch 45 bil isk. Oo''l

Why ?? WHY?? ))

If real you need do and people go get mass build and use ship in PVE and PVP and we will see much kill on killboard and much fun.

Megatron cost = 200 mil isk
Vindicator cost = 500 mil isk

Moros cost = 2 bil isk
Vehement cos = 5-6 bil isk

Stop greed give people nice ship for play and fun. Think about this.
Sorry for my bad ENG.

You're cherry picking your example.

Take a look at the some other T1 > faction price differences and the vehement cost looks relatively cheap in comparison.

Moa - 12m
Osprey Navy Issue - 60m
Gila - 220m

Just an opposing example. There are fluctuations all across the spectrum, but battleships are one of the few classes that have a very tight difference.
Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#48 - 2016-08-08 13:16:44 UTC
The proof will be in the killboards.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Cade Windstalker
#49 - 2016-08-08 18:30:17 UTC
Rowells wrote:
You're cherry picking your example.

Take a look at the some other T1 > faction price differences and the vehement cost looks relatively cheap in comparison.

Moa - 12m
Osprey Navy Issue - 60m
Gila - 220m

Just an opposing example. There are fluctuations all across the spectrum, but battleships are one of the few classes that have a very tight difference.


It's also worth noting that T1 BS prices have actually gone up over the last 5 years while Faction BS prices have dropped incredibly. Machs and Vindis used to be over 1b for the hull alone. Since around this time in 2013 the cost of a Megathron has gone from ~170m to just under 200m, while the cost of a Vindicator hull has gone from ~1.4b sell price to around 500m today.
Robert Parr
Iron Tiger T3 Industries
#50 - 2016-08-09 21:08:02 UTC
Rowells wrote:
What portion does insurance cover on these ships?




That would fall under the old cliche, if you have to ask.....SadSadSadSad
Panties and Stockings
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#51 - 2016-08-10 05:40:15 UTC
I would like to point out the costs between the megathron and vindicator is not in the mat costs, it is in the BPC. The Vindicator requires a similar amount of minerals to build as the Megathron. All faction ships, baring the Serpentis capitals, follow this pattern, the Revenant included.

The price of these ships that people are using usually don't factor in the BPC cost. Expect them to more expensive than expected.
KISA KOSHKINA
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2016-08-10 17:28:24 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Tifida wrote:
Ok. i read all topic and say what i think about new amazing ship ))

CCP give much blueprint to people. Wait 30 day and CCP looking we do very nice ship how much building this ship in 30 day. i may answer ZERO )))
Why people not building that amazing ship?? ahh maybe too much isk?? hm we doo sale 30% ok all BUILD it now.

No way you will see people didnt do this. and dont get a much ship for get more fun.

Look
Megatron cost = 200 mil isk
Vindicator cost = 500 mil isk

Moros cost = 2 bil isk
Vehement cos = 30 bil isk ( now ) before patch 45 bil isk. Oo''l

Why ?? WHY?? ))

If real you need do and people go get mass build and use ship in PVE and PVP and we will see much kill on killboard and much fun.

Megatron cost = 200 mil isk
Vindicator cost = 500 mil isk

Moros cost = 2 bil isk
Vehement cos = 5-6 bil isk

Stop greed give people nice ship for play and fun. Think about this.
Sorry for my bad ENG.

You're cherry picking your example.

Take a look at the some other T1 > faction price differences and the vehement cost looks relatively cheap in comparison.

Moa - 12m
Osprey Navy Issue - 60m
Gila - 220m

Just an opposing example. There are fluctuations all across the spectrum, but battleships are one of the few classes that have a very tight difference.


You are wrong!!! Сost of construction of a gila same, as well as Moa. The price different because of blueprint copy
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2016-08-11 03:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
KISA KOSHKINA wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Tifida wrote:
Ok. i read all topic and say what i think about new amazing ship ))

CCP give much blueprint to people. Wait 30 day and CCP looking we do very nice ship how much building this ship in 30 day. i may answer ZERO )))
Why people not building that amazing ship?? ahh maybe too much isk?? hm we doo sale 30% ok all BUILD it now.

No way you will see people didnt do this. and dont get a much ship for get more fun.

Look
Megatron cost = 200 mil isk
Vindicator cost = 500 mil isk

Moros cost = 2 bil isk
Vehement cos = 30 bil isk ( now ) before patch 45 bil isk. Oo''l

Why ?? WHY?? ))

If real you need do and people go get mass build and use ship in PVE and PVP and we will see much kill on killboard and much fun.

Megatron cost = 200 mil isk
Vindicator cost = 500 mil isk

Moros cost = 2 bil isk
Vehement cos = 5-6 bil isk

Stop greed give people nice ship for play and fun. Think about this.
Sorry for my bad ENG.

You're cherry picking your example.

Take a look at the some other T1 > faction price differences and the vehement cost looks relatively cheap in comparison.

Moa - 12m
Osprey Navy Issue - 60m
Gila - 220m

Just an opposing example. There are fluctuations all across the spectrum, but battleships are one of the few classes that have a very tight difference.


You are wrong!!! Сost of construction of a gila same, as well as Moa. The price different because of blueprint copy

Good thing I didn't say anything about materials. Or building anything for that matter.
Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#54 - 2016-08-25 15:35:37 UTC
Antony Ottig wrote:
Quote:
There are plenty of things in the game for new and intermediate players, not everything should be easily accessible. Things like Titans, Supers, and Faction Capitals can serve as aspirational goals for players to strive towards when everything else is already well within reach.

But supers are cheaper than vehement and have better tank, better dps, better everything.


except supers can't go into wormholes.

put this dread in a c5/c6 magnetar and the extra damage bonus over the moros is now doubled.

Its a toy for rich wh corps, why is everyone getting bent out of shape?
Siginek
Perun Inc.
#55 - 2016-08-29 15:57:11 UTC
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Antony Ottig wrote:
Quote:
There are plenty of things in the game for new and intermediate players, not everything should be easily accessible. Things like Titans, Supers, and Faction Capitals can serve as aspirational goals for players to strive towards when everything else is already well within reach.

But supers are cheaper than vehement and have better tank, better dps, better everything.


except supers can't go into wormholes.

put this dread in a c5/c6 magnetar and the extra damage bonus over the moros is now doubled.

Its a toy for rich wh corps, why is everyone getting bent out of shape?


30B for dread with one more mid slot and +/- 12% dps bonus over moros with no tank bonus and useless web bonus ... i doubt any WH corp will use this in serious pvp (if there will ever be any since capital pvp in WH is broken thanks to FAXes with insane tank)
Carnot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2016-09-13 18:45:56 UTC
Adding an armor equivalent to crystal set was smart and overdue.
Adding faction capitals also a good idea and a good idea to change some 'end game' content
Adding a pricetag that is unlivable by one person by normal in game means is nothing new and also reasonable (keepstars, supers, stations - things people work as an alliance toward.)

this forum has made it pretty clear the build costs for these are too high because first and foremost they arent going to survive - that sunday drive comment makes little sense.

What is worse is the implementation of the new faction capital bpcs form the lp store is another unrealistic grind. A grind which cant be done via any sort of large scale group activity. Even if one could argue that running missions en masse and sharing the lp with one specific toon was a good idea... there are no level 5 serpentis agent missions. Faction bpc will require approximately 800/400/100 lvl 4 missions for vanquisher/vendetta/vehment respectively. This is for a bpc only and on top of the already ridiculous build costs this implementation is just an insane grind which is basically promoting bad repetitive solo play.

Also, on a not any less important note. Serpentis NPC missions can only be run in 2 very specific places in 0.0. I understand your plan is to have multiple factions with factional bcapital npcs available in lp stores in multiple stores but at this point, that is not the case. You have essentially just grandfathered these capitals to those who had insane lp with the serpentis already and/or held this space in the first place.

Surely you can come up with some more group based implementation for this, AND an more even distribution of agents etc.
maybe lvl 5 missions and adding serpentis npcs into all faction region hubs stain/venal/delve etc or maybe come up with something better than agent missions...
zluq zabaa
Inhumanum Legionis
#57 - 2016-10-13 00:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: zluq zabaa
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