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[DED] A short reminder from the IGS Communications Director

Author
Jason Galente
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#41 - 2016-10-04 16:29:47 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Posting kill mails is not allowed.

To formally protest what you have agreed to is far from reasonable.

Find a way to make your point within the rules.

If not, create your own version of IGS and make up your own rules.

Nothing stops you from doing that. See how many participants you can gather.

I suspect the numbers will not come close to the numbers here on IGS.

Breaking the rules and bending them to our will is always an adolescent thrill, but eventually reality demands we rise above the short cuts of youthful passions and make more thoughtful arguments that can persuade and not just annoy or embarrass. Kill mails do far more of the latter and very little of the former. They have no place on IGS.

IGS participants should be able to keep to the usage agreement, period.


You missed the point entirely. Users of a service can petition the owner of the service to change the terms of the usage agreement towards something more suitable. If the owner of the service, in a free market, ignores these requests and enough of the users support the requests, they'll have a hard time keeping their membership. However, the DED has a monopoly here. So instead, what will happen, what has always happened, is that activity on the Summit will go down the more the clueless DED officials ignore and even punish people for wanting to express themselves.

There is nothing absurd at all about a user wanting a change to the terms of the usage agreement. It is an agreement between two parties and as such, either relevant party is perfectly within their rights to request a change as it relates to their preferences. The DED can choose to deny that request, but the user can still make that request.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Matar Ronin
#42 - 2016-10-17 17:12:14 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Posting kill mails is not allowed.

To formally protest what you have agreed to is far from reasonable.

Find a way to make your point within the rules.

If not, create your own version of IGS and make up your own rules.

Nothing stops you from doing that. See how many participants you can gather.

I suspect the numbers will not come close to the numbers here on IGS.

Breaking the rules and bending them to our will is always an adolescent thrill, but eventually reality demands we rise above the short cuts of youthful passions and make more thoughtful arguments that can persuade and not just annoy or embarrass. Kill mails do far more of the latter and very little of the former. They have no place on IGS.

IGS participants should be able to keep to the usage agreement, period.


You missed the point entirely. Users of a service can petition the owner of the service to change the terms of the usage agreement towards something more suitable. If the owner of the service, in a free market, ignores these requests and enough of the users support the requests, they'll have a hard time keeping their membership. However, the DED has a monopoly here. So instead, what will happen, what has always happened, is that activity on the Summit will go down the more the clueless DED officials ignore and even punish people for wanting to express themselves.

There is nothing absurd at all about a user wanting a change to the terms of the usage agreement. It is an agreement between two parties and as such, either relevant party is perfectly within their rights to request a change as it relates to their preferences. The DED can choose to deny that request, but the user can still make that request.
You missed the bigger point. Users are not forced to use the service. Do as you agreed or not do at all. Not complicated.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Andreus Ixiris
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#43 - 2016-12-01 13:56:46 UTC
If the authorities refuse to actually moderate their forum, the apalling state the IGS is currently in will persist indefinitely. If you refuse to fix this mess, to whom are we supposed to turn?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Elanion
#44 - 2016-12-01 15:14:58 UTC
When strategic employment of the block feature on 3-4 pilots effectively removes 70-80% of the content on IGS, you know the service has lost any notion of its monicker. Nothing of value will be achieved here, and clowns have made easy entertainment for the masses since long before DED existed.

My only suggestion is to return to the salon. Small, semi-regular meetings, in person and by invitation only, to discuss matters of culture and policy.

RIP YC111-115"The project discarded, its subjects forgotten... thence must the burden be shouldered."

Ayallah
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#45 - 2016-12-02 05:59:09 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
You missed the bigger point. Users are not forced to use the service. Do as you agreed or not do at all. Not complicated.
Brilliant analysis. What people are asking for is a change in policy.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Matar Ronin
#46 - 2016-12-02 06:23:37 UTC
Follow the rules you agreed to or head for the exits either way stop all the whining.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Andreus Ixiris
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#47 - 2016-12-02 09:10:45 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Follow the rules you agreed to or head for the exits either way stop all the whining.

We are following the rules. What's concerning is that a few people are quite blatantly not, and are being given free reign to abuse others while the authorities do nothing.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
#48 - 2016-12-02 10:33:54 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
a few people


Oh yes, of course.

Those people.

It's always those people, who are to blame.

Yes, indeed, those people, who ruin everything by their behaviour.

Why, look at all the things that are posted elsewhere, on more actively moderated fora, without the participation of those people. The content there is so much higher quality than here.

Actively moderated fora such as:

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Andreus Ixiris
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#49 - 2016-12-02 12:45:31 UTC
On other CRC-moderated fora where the CRC proscriptions against thread derailment and repeated harassment are actively enforced, the content is indeed of a higher quality. So thanks for asking.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
#50 - 2016-12-02 13:53:51 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
other CRC-moderated fora where the CRC proscriptions against thread derailment and repeated harassment are actively enforced


Including such well known fora as:

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Andreus Ixiris
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#51 - 2016-12-02 15:16:01 UTC
See the little taskbar above the IGS where it says "Forums" and "Communication Center?"

Click on those. Look at any of the other CRC-moderated channels they offer.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Jason Galente
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#52 - 2016-12-03 08:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
I'd just like to point out that I spend most of my time these days on The Summit, not the Intergalactic Summit, because on The Summit, those 2-3 people consistently at the root of most dramatic problems are banned. And I can actually have useful conversations with nice people there. And the salon idea as well, meetings in person are so much more productive. Usually the mark of who is NOT a part of those people as Valerie put it, is that they are actually willing to meet you in a civil setting and behave in a civil manner. If they can't tolerate the presence of a significant number of people enough to do that, usually they're one of those people.

For example, Templar Thal Vadam recently had a birthday celebration, to which I was invited, along with Literia among others (Literia and Diana Kim do not get along, to the point that Diana, warmhearted as she is, said she hoped LIteria's children were killed and that her at-the-time fetus was stillborn. Charming, I know. But no need to moderate any of that, Mr. Aliette).

The Templar had to refrain from inviting Diana, because she swore to attempt to kill us both, at his birthday celebration. He asked her not to disrupt the party, for his sake, not ours or anyone else's, because they are old friends, or at least were. She refused, and then acted as if he had done something wrong by refraining from thus inviting her and disclosing the location of the event to her.

This is not a situation I am willing to put up with anymore, or pretend that it is anything other than freakish and inhuman. Yes, she is absolutely one of those people, and it's blatantly obvious to anyone who spends maybe an hour watching her behavior.

The small few people like her make it to where this forum will not grow, will scare off the new Alpha clones, and will continually bleed valuable contributors until it becomes an echo chamber catered to exactly one person and the people willing to put up with her. Her toxicity has probably driven away dozens of people who could've become active, contributing members of this community.

I see your point Valerie, but sometimes the shoe does fit.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
#53 - 2016-12-03 12:41:45 UTC
Oh, Thal had a birthday party ? When was that ?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Andreus Ixiris
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#54 - 2016-12-03 14:31:58 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
I see your point Valerie, but sometimes the shoe does fit.

There is no "point." Literally the only people who agitate so vociferously against proper forum moderation are those likely to lose their ability to post on it if it was imposed.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
#55 - 2016-12-03 15:30:06 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Jason Galente wrote:
I see your point Valerie, but sometimes the shoe does fit.

There is no "point." Literally the only people who agitate so vociferously against proper forum moderation are those likely to lose their ability to post on it if it was imposed.


Factually wrong.

Unlike Admiral Noir, you missed what you were aiming for.

See.

There have been more than a few projects, where people have said "The IGS is terrible, let's make a thing without those people in it", and people go "yeah!" in agreement. After much hoohah, said thing is made and then...

None of the people who complained about the "quality" of the IGS actually post anything on the forum that aspired to be better, with a more rigorous moderation regime. 26 threads in 18 months, across 4 fora.

Given the opportunity to post their quality content in a venue away from those people, the people complaining about the IGS, did nothing.

The moderation is not the issue here.

It's easy for a single airhorn to drown out a solo flute. A single airhorn cannot drown out a massed flute band.

In fact, let us suppose that the CRC did indeed ban all of those people.

Do you think anyone would actually post anything ?

I, for one, am sceptical, given the lack of postings on venues where the "proper forum moderation", was in place.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

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