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Stop the wars !!! I want to do my own thing !!!

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#321 - 2016-08-16 05:35:13 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
Ok Dracvlad, have you done highsec wars before and after the change to the watch list?

I don't think you have. But let us do an experiment.

I want you to wardec my corporation (my newbro will be just fine) and I want you to actively hunt me down. I am being completely serious about this...

I want you to experience the frustration of hunting ghosts, not knowing if I am even online or not while you fly through the 5000+ starsystems trying to locate me. Once you spend a week trying (if you haven't quit Eve before then) to locate me and blow me up, then come back to this thread and tell us how you felt about it.

Seriously, wardec my corp and actually try it out.


That is exactly the type of attitude that is rather silly, so I have to play how you play, no way, I get to know who I want to kill, study their movements understand their routines, get to know when they log in what their patterns are etc., I am so used to doing this in NPC 0.0. Your approach sucks, first of all if I did this in hisec I would really get to know you before I war decked you. I wouldn't be in the dark about the person I was going after. To be blunt I am not going to start up my spy account for you.

The thing is that these people have chosen to be merc's and run around blanket decking multiple targets without doing any leg work before hand and want to walk up to them and blap them, its like playing in a FPS for them. Its because they are fail easy kill merchants which is why they all go off and do blanket war decs when it gets a bit more challenging..

You fail challenge is a fail challenge, and actually proves my point, I for one would not war dec on your basis.

Fair enough, then quit complaining. And 0.0 is nothing like highsec. Cannot compare the two at all.

Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution.


That is where you are utterly wrong, you are hunting people in other systems doing Sansha missions for a start, catching them in gates probing them down, the only difference is the lack of game mechanics around aggro, when you are hunting someone its exactly the same but more difficult because as soon as I show my face in local they are on guard, which is not the same in hisec, so my scouts can get closer in hisec.

And I am not complaining Ralph and you are, I think expecting to find people like you do in a FPS is rather lame.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#322 - 2016-08-16 05:53:30 UTC
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
This is supposed to be a thinking game not a FPS.

So you admit the miners and haulers who complain about ganking should do a bit of thinking then?

I didn't think so.


Some yes, for example those that use the pipes, trade hubs and main mission hubs as if there was no war dec are obviously not thinking. What they have to do is to have a fall back plan on how to operate if they have a war dec. You obviously migth not have noticed that I accept that there should be a war dec system in hisec, the only issue I have is the over fishing of indy players by senseless war decs and my attitude is to try to restrict taht in some way, the exact mechanism is a bit hard to pin down. In truth I would lkely link it to having something in space.

In terms of ganking it is less obvious, because someone with a single account is so much more vulnerable and even two accounts is not great, because in terms of a freighter that gives you a webber who has to double up as a scout.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Nitshe Razvedka
#323 - 2016-08-16 05:58:08 UTC
Maybe a quota system. Simular to fishing limited stock.

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#324 - 2016-08-16 06:00:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Well the question is more like would a war dec entity have bothered to have gone after someone like you before the watch list change, the answer would be no. Try harder please...


They did.

Now, how about you backing up your BS for once? Come find me.


OK now that is because of what, your ganking activities so someone paid them to war dec you and they of course had little hope of getting you. The trick in this game is to know what you can and cannot do and not try something that is impossible. The person who may have paid for a war dec against you would have been silly in my book. I for one know it would be very unlikely to have any impact on you whatsoever. I would not war dec PL to go after you period. Now if you were operating nearly all the time near me then that would be different.

I did at one time do a locator agent on you to find you location for interest and you were in Deklin at that point.. I know that you are not the alt of Warr Akkini or Endie, but have not managed to get more than that. You are as far as I am concerned are fairly untouchable. Which is why you comment is silly.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#325 - 2016-08-16 06:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Dracvlad wrote:
In terms of ganking it is less obvious, because someone with a single account is so much more vulnerable and even two accounts is not great, because in terms of a freighter that gives you a webber who has to double up as a scout.

Two accounts is fine if you want the convenience of planning your own schedule.

If flying a JF, a cyno can also be good, but 2 accounts for a Freighter is enough.

The risk is managed to a very low level, just by having a webbing alt.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#326 - 2016-08-16 06:16:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
No im done responding to your arguments, im just entertaining myself at this point.
I may as well given that you rearly if ever respond to what i type, rather whatever you would rather dismiss.


Well sadly you seem to have decided that the only thing you want is the totally free watch list data just like it was before. Bit disappointing that...


Ralph has never asked for free watch list data. Never.

He like many others in the Merc community have asked for Locator agents to get a rebalance.


That is free data, so locators will tell you so and so is in this station and he is online, cost you about 300k from memory or something small like that, yeah free data. No way to interdict it, nothing just the same lazy hunting as before. Even the mercs I thought had something about them turn out to be little better than the hub humpers.



250k plus 5min delay, the price/time scales down if the target is in region and further down if he is in the consolation, Plus travel time to located system. If the target you located is traveling it's completely worthless if he is mining or missioning it's entirely possible for the missioner to finish his mission on dock up with in the 5min period plus travel time. 30min cool down time for Level 4.

Let me break it down, You have One person plus a scout hunting Leroy. You place a locator agent, 5 mins 250k later you get the system name, and no station meaning he is in space. You have travel to the system which we will say is another 5mins of travel time away.

When you get to the system, you see Leroy is in system via local (Free intel), Your OOC scout, FIRST needs to check the stations, doesn't matter if there is a Mission Agent in system, you need to be sure that you know he is still out in space. You can bypass this by sending him a duel invite (Free Intel), but this will possibly spook your target, after verifying that he is space, you then check his Killboard (Free Intel) to see what he fly's and if you can narrow down what to look for. He like Caldari so you begin looking for anything Caldari related.


Scan time, plus verifying if he is docked, may cause you sitting on this one person for, let's say, 20mins. A lot of work going into finding this one particular person.

If you are in a missioning system, Like any of the SOE mission hubs, you have a lot of ships to go through, if not your in luck. Eventually you find a Leroy in a Raven. If your lucky you call in a friend to come in an interceptor to get tackle, if not you better hope that he's near by a gate. No interceptor pilot means you need to be in a fast warping ship yourself, normally a T3 with a warp speed Sub and Rigs. Making you more venerable as your ship is now two roles rather then one.

And all that before you even press F1.

Locator agents are not easy mode. They didn't need to be pushed aside. They generated Content. Finding a Corps HQ is a lot easier, making it easier one the defending corp to mount a possible defense as well.

Compared to now, were you roam randomly hoping to find someone, check mission hubs periodically and sit on pipeline and hubs catching the stupid,

Locators are not free.

EDIT:

Also whats with the whine that Ralph got some likes? Like serious? Likes are nothing I can run over to the Get Likes thread and boost my self up by 500 or more in a week and that doesn't mean anything. Just some people agree with him and sent that recognition in via a little button. I can log my other accounts onto the forum and boost myself up. 12 likes per post baby.

Just because someone's post get's a like doesn't mean anything of value to someone else.

Maybe because you see likes as a, "I find this post agreeable/funny" why does it bother you? That some people may disagree with you? That someone might have a different opinion that you and that is upsetting somehow?


Let me start with your edit, the 3 likes I referred to were on another person, I found it funny that people were stupid enough to like it when that person just proved my point, was delicious.

Locators are as good as free, 250k, so what that is chicken shite and there is no counter, see that word, personally I think locator agents are lame too, I would remove them as well, plus all the data on the map too. This is not a FPS.

From my perspective you are doing all the work during the war dec that I would have done before, you have been conditioned to be lazy by the use of the watch list and locator agents. In fact gathering data on hisec targets is really easy as compared to doing it in null sec. We used to go after mission runners, the basic principal is the same however they get nervous with anyone in local and act differently whereas in hisec they are easier to observe.

You want locator agents to say if they are online or not too and where is the counter for that, it is free intel in te sense that you did not have to go out of you way to gather that data, you just ask and its given to you on a plate for some ISK, its not at all like what I proposed which is a skynet type system of OS which can be countered by someone with a bit more to them.

What you are talking about is not hunter killing, its just killing with a little bit of effort, my efforts in NPC 0.0 were more nuanced, I had to condition them to think I was harmless, in the end they got wise to me because we got kills and the kills dried up because they stopped. But what you describe applies to us too in our efforts hunting in NPC 0.0, the most important thing was not to spook them.

I used to do the intel gathering and setting up for others to get the kills, which is why I said I would simply not operate as you lot do and why this challenge is stupid. All it does is prove just how reliant on the watch list you were

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#327 - 2016-08-16 06:18:29 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
In terms of ganking it is less obvious, because someone with a single account is so much more vulnerable and even two accounts is not great, because in terms of a freighter that gives you a webber who has to double up as a scout.

Two accounts is fine if you want the convenience of planning your own schedule.

If flying a JF, a cyno can also be good, but 2 accounts for a Freighter is enough.

The risk is manage to a very low level, just by having a webbing alt.


No it is not enough, I sold my freighter because it was evident to me that it was not enough to operate the freighter at an acceptable level of risk and reward. And the webber alt can be countered easily...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#328 - 2016-08-16 06:24:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
In terms of ganking it is less obvious, because someone with a single account is so much more vulnerable and even two accounts is not great, because in terms of a freighter that gives you a webber who has to double up as a scout.

Two accounts is fine if you want the convenience of planning your own schedule.

If flying a JF, a cyno can also be good, but 2 accounts for a Freighter is enough.

The risk is manage to a very low level, just by having a webbing alt.


No it is not enough, I sold my freighter because it was evident to me that it was not enough to operate the freighter at an acceptable level of risk and reward. And the webber alt can be countered easily...

You sold your freighter because you aren't good at estimating risk.

Webbers are not easy to counter and suicide blackbirds are almost non-existent compared to the number of freighter movements. The risk posed by a webbing counter is extremely low and it's trivial to prove that's the case.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#329 - 2016-08-16 07:17:58 UTC
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:
Maybe a quota system. Simular to fishing limited stock.


Maybe would have to be that.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#330 - 2016-08-16 08:22:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
In terms of ganking it is less obvious, because someone with a single account is so much more vulnerable and even two accounts is not great, because in terms of a freighter that gives you a webber who has to double up as a scout.

Two accounts is fine if you want the convenience of planning your own schedule.

If flying a JF, a cyno can also be good, but 2 accounts for a Freighter is enough.

The risk is manage to a very low level, just by having a webbing alt.


No it is not enough, I sold my freighter because it was evident to me that it was not enough to operate the freighter at an acceptable level of risk and reward. And the webber alt can be countered easily...

You sold your freighter because you aren't good at estimating risk.

Webbers are not easy to counter and suicide blackbirds are almost non-existent compared to the number of freighter movements. The risk posed by a webbing counter is extremely low and it's trivial to prove that's the case.


I am very good at estimating risk. The key thing is when I have no way to counter that is game over, so instead of using a freighter I use DST's. Perfectly fine on risk control there..

EDIT: Emphasis on the word I...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#331 - 2016-08-16 08:40:20 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
...I sold my freighter because it was evident to me that it was not enough to operate the freighter at an acceptable level of risk and reward. And the webber alt can be countered easily...

You sold your freighter because you aren't good at estimating risk.

Webbers are not easy to counter and suicide blackbirds are almost non-existent compared to the number of freighter movements. The risk posed by a webbing counter is extremely low and it's trivial to prove that's the case.


I am very good at estimating risk.

Clearly not.

Quote:
The key thing is when I have no way to counter that is game over, so instead of using a freighter I use DST's. Perfectly fine on risk control there...

No way to counter? Rubbish.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Solecist Project
#332 - 2016-08-16 08:49:17 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
...I sold my freighter because it was evident to me that it was not enough to operate the freighter at an acceptable level of risk and reward. And the webber alt can be countered easily...

You sold your freighter because you aren't good at estimating risk.

Webbers are not easy to counter and suicide blackbirds are almost non-existent compared to the number of freighter movements. The risk posed by a webbing counter is extremely low and it's trivial to prove that's the case.


I am very good at estimating risk.

Clearly not.

Quote:
The key thing is when I have no way to counter that is game over, so instead of using a freighter I use DST's. Perfectly fine on risk control there...

No way to counter? Rubbish.

it would help if you made a thread containing all the ways that allow someone to counter getting his freighter ganked. you then could link that thread for anyone´s consumption if needed and stop "discussing" the topic, saving you time for more important things.

i´d further suggest to split it up in things one can do solo and things one can do with an alt or a friend.

only really important part is to not bring opinions and ego into it and staying with what can be done ingame.
stick with reality, answer questions in case they show confusion and spread it as much as you can.

it´ll help and is far more productive than constant argueing and "rubbish".

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#333 - 2016-08-16 08:56:26 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
it would help if you made a thread containing all the ways that allow someone to counter getting his freighter ganked. you then could link that thread for anyone´s consumption if needed and stop "discussing" the topic, saving you time for more important things.

That's a good idea.

It unfortunately won't stop the need to keep calling Dracvlad's lies out for what they are.

I'll start a thread, with a look at Drac's stupid claims about risk from suicide Blackbirds.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Solecist Project
#334 - 2016-08-16 09:07:00 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
it would help if you made a thread containing all the ways that allow someone to counter getting his freighter ganked. you then could link that thread for anyone´s consumption if needed and stop "discussing" the topic, saving you time for more important things.

That's a good idea.

It unfortunately won't stop the need to keep calling Dracvlad's lies out for what they are.

I'll start a thread, with a look at Drac's stupid claims about risk from suicide Blackbirds.

in c&p, i hope, to gain more information as well (one person can´t think of it all) ...

though i must say i´d love some c&p members posting gd more frequently.
they´re kind of needed here...


thank you for accepting my idea! :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#335 - 2016-08-16 09:17:26 UTC
Asking for locators to no longer give any intell on someone who isnt playing the game is asking considerably less

Than asking for an afk flag, which is intell that has never been in the game.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Solecist Project
#336 - 2016-08-16 09:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Asking for locators to no longer give any intell on someone who isnt playing the game is asking considerably less

Than asking for an afk flag, which is intell that has never been in the game.

i have a suggestion for this that´s been on my mind for a good year and is technically doable.

plus it wouldn´t rely on the big political entity to provide.

so...

you guys have enough money to run alts you can park everywhere.
it´s technically possible and relatively trivial to take screenshots of the game.
it´s technically possible and relatively trivial to parse the local list of the screenshot.
it´s also completely legal within the eula (it´s a screenshot) and python ftw.
it´s technically possible and relatively trivial to send that list around.
sadly it would be verboten to use evewebmails for automatic spreading, but there´s other ways.
with clever placed alts you could surveill a lot of space without having to have them everywhere.

it´s perfectly doable. i love python.

what´s your take?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#337 - 2016-08-16 09:32:41 UTC
If i hace alts in these systems why not just, watch local?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nitshe Razvedka
#338 - 2016-08-16 09:36:56 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Asking for locators to no longer give any intell on someone who isnt playing the game is asking considerably less

Than asking for an afk flag, which is intell that has never been in the game.

i have a suggestion for this that´s been on my mind for a good year and is technically doable.

plus it wouldn´t rely on the big political entity to provide.

so...

you guys have enough money to run alts you can park everywhere.
it´s technically possible and relatively trivial to take screenshots of the game.
it´s technically possible and relatively trivial to parse the local list of the screenshot.
it´s also completely legal within the eula (it´s a screenshot) and python ftw.
it´s technically possible and relatively trivial to send that list around.
sadly it would be verboten to use evewebmails for automatic spreading, but there´s other ways.
with clever placed alts you could surveill a lot of space without having to have them everywhere.

it´s perfectly doable. i love python.

what´s your take?



This is why Hillary types don't run businesses. Stick to reading palms Sol.

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#339 - 2016-08-16 10:21:30 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Asking for locators to no longer give any intell on someone who isnt playing the game is asking considerably less

Than asking for an afk flag, which is intell that has never been in the game.


Deflection on to another subject, your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it, it cannot be countered, my suggestions all can be countered by blowing the OS up.and are content drivers in that they cause a point of contact for both sides..

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#340 - 2016-08-16 10:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Dracvlad wrote:
your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it
If you pay for something, it isn't free Roll

That much is obvious to anybody that has more than 2 brain cells to rub together.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.