These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Efficient PvP Ship
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#21 - 2011-12-21 00:24:31 UTC
Wow, looks like a hell of a fight! I'll give that a look for sure, Harpies are pretty cheap usually.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#22 - 2011-12-21 00:27:34 UTC
Dibblerette wrote:
Wow, looks like a hell of a fight! I'll give that a look for sure, Harpies are pretty cheap usually.


I'm pretty ballsy with it because its dirt cheap to lose. Its literally more hassle to bring them down than it is to replace any ISK lost. I think maybe I'm gonna throw an offline salvager in the highs just for salvaging all the T2 ships I kill with it.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
#23 - 2011-12-21 01:12:22 UTC
If it were me, Id buy a score of cruisers and lose those too. While you are doing that, train BC V.
Gorefacer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-12-21 02:51:14 UTC
Haven't done it much myself but if you're looking at BS solo or small gang I've heard a Scorpion can work. This was a long time ago though. I'd imagine the fit would have some heavy neuts and multispecs if there was one that gave you even a slim chance solo.
GenesisMike
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-12-21 03:23:20 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Dibblerette wrote:
Too bad the Brutix has an armor rep bonus instead of something more useful, like tracking or MWD cap use. Is there such a thing as a Nano Ferox? Or a viable ship with medium railguns? Finally, how much of a priority should BC 5 be?

Thanks for all the input!

Medium Rails don't really have a solid platform without a Dmg Bonus and Opt Bonus yet. Following the Naga they will hopefully look into that. Battlecruiser V is a good priority I never regretted it for a moment.

Another thought crossed my mind. I have been working on a Battleship fit that costs the same as a Tier 2 BC after insurance.

[Armageddon, Cheap]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II

Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Energy Burst Aerator I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I
[empty rig slot]


Berserker II x5


I calculated the cost to be 79 Mil ISK. It works fine with Meta 4 (About 70mil total) but lacking Scorch you would want to ditch the NAP for a TE and possibly the Sebo for a TC II. 110K EHP and around 600 Gun DPS. Not great compared to the 150mil Megapulse Trimark type but after insurance your cost is about the same as a Drake or a Cane.

I plan to test her out with Meta 4 this month and T2 in early Feburary. I brought up Cruise Missiles and T2 L Projectiles so I have to wait a bit on the training till she is maxed.



Go 3 Trimarks in the rigs, for the lows i would take off the Adaptive Nano Plating and put a second heat sink. You should have ample tank without the ANP and since you will not be solo in a BS your role is to burn the target. Since you will most likely have someone else in a tackling ship a point is not necessary in the mids so I don't see a problem with them really.
GenesisMike
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2011-12-21 03:35:13 UTC
Forgot to add a point in above..... you really should never solo in a BS. I personally love flying BS's but in most cases 1 falcon lands and your day is ended with Amarr ships being so easily jammed. Also a Prop Mod is a must, burning back to gates either to avoid a camp or to catch a passing target is always useful. Plus in a BS you usually want to control your range so ships dont get under your guns.

Someone above posted about a Rattlesnake or Scorpion, one thing that I love to see is a BS trying to solo roam, 3 BC's show up with some neuting power and very quickly most BS's will fall. In PVP i've learned a few things: where theres 1 target there are bound to be more waiting, expect neuts to be used against you, and never solo in a BS!!

In reference to the Geddon fit with an Active Tank, the amount of capacitor your guns use already puts a premium on cap boosters so better to buffer up and save the cap for your primary bonus to the ship with the guns RoF, if your 100k+ EHP isnt gonna hold the DPS you are receiving, it isn't gonna be repped.

Hope this helps.
Alara IonStorm
#27 - 2011-12-21 04:30:41 UTC
GenesisMike wrote:

Go 3 Trimarks in the rigs, for the lows i would take off the Adaptive Nano Plating and put a second heat sink. You should have ample tank without the ANP and since you will not be solo in a BS your role is to burn the target. Since you will most likely have someone else in a tackling ship a point is not necessary in the mids so I don't see a problem with them really.

The entire point is that you save 40mil on those Trimarks, Dmg Rigs cost 2mil each. You also save 14 mil using Duel Pulse instead of Megapulse as well.

You must of missed the part where I stated the Cookie Cutter Fit.
Quote:
Not great compared to the 150mil Megapulse Trimark type but after insurance your cost is about the same as a Drake or a Cane.

This is not about Cookie Cutter it is about cost. For slightly above the base cost of a Battlecruiser this is an effective Battleship Fit.
Wongdai
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-12-21 04:38:36 UTC
I'm not understanding about why to train to BC5. The skillbook just says: Skill at Operating Battlecruisers.

What does this mean exactly? More agility, speed, what?

Enquiring minds need to know before submitting to the 27 day skill queue.
Alara IonStorm
#29 - 2011-12-21 04:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Wongdai wrote:
I'm not understanding about why to train to BC5. The skillbook just says: Skill at Operating Battlecruisers.

What does this mean exactly? More agility, speed, what?

Enquiring minds need to know before submitting to the 27 day skill queue.

Each Battlecruiser has skill bonuses. Here is an example.

Drake: Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% shield resistance and 5% bonus kinetic damage of heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles per level

Each level you have trained add 5% to your Damage and Resists. Overall a 25% improvement to both. That is base improvement which means it is not stacking penalized.

Another thing is that unlike Frigates, Cruisers and Battleships this is not a Racial Skill. Train it to 5 and those 2 maxed out bonuses go towards every Battlecruiser.

Brutix
Cyclone
Prophecy
Ferox
Myrmidon
Hurricane
Harbinger
Drake
Talos
Tornado
Oracle
Naga

It also gives bonuses to the T2 Command Ships which BC V is required to fly them.

Astarte
Sleipnir
Absolution
Nighthawk
Eos
Claymore
Damnation
Vulture

It is a very wide reaching skill.
Wongdai
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-12-21 04:54:18 UTC
OH wow, nice. That is quite useful then.

Looks like I have a 27 day skill queue coming up!

Thanks for the explanation.
GenesisMike
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2011-12-21 05:16:19 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
GenesisMike wrote:

Go 3 Trimarks in the rigs, for the lows i would take off the Adaptive Nano Plating and put a second heat sink. You should have ample tank without the ANP and since you will not be solo in a BS your role is to burn the target. Since you will most likely have someone else in a tackling ship a point is not necessary in the mids so I don't see a problem with them really.

The entire point is that you save 40mil on those Trimarks, Dmg Rigs cost 2mil each. You also save 14 mil using Duel Pulse instead of Megapulse as well.

You must of missed the part where I stated the Cookie Cutter Fit.
Quote:
Not great compared to the 150mil Megapulse Trimark type but after insurance your cost is about the same as a Drake or a Cane.

This is not about Cookie Cutter it is about cost. For slightly above the base cost of a Battlecruiser this is an effective Battleship Fit.


No I did not miss what you were saying about cost. I was referencing the effectiveness of the fit itself. Why save some money when what you are flying isn't effective. Sure its cheaper, the reason those rigs are cheap are because there is a low demand for them since most PVP pilots recognize the importance of survivability over a few extra DPS. Situational fittings may use those rigs but for what the Geddon is primarily used for tank balances the DPS aspect well. This concept of saving money on fits and coming up with a fit that isn't effective to save cash is counter productive. I think of it like skill points to fly a ship, if you do not have the necessary SP's to properly fly the ship don't get into it yet. Same goes for fitting one, if you cannot afford the correct mods/rigs then just wait a bit longer until you can. Cookie cutter fits are categorized as such for the simple reason that they work well and a majority of ppl use them.

Also I never even commented on using mega pulses on the Geddon, i use duels myself since they have good dps and I have two large neuts on my Geddons. Before you try and correct people be sure to check what they actually said.

To OP, if you still need some fits EVE mail me in game and I can send you some of the fits I use that have proven worthwhile.
Alara IonStorm
#32 - 2011-12-21 05:32:46 UTC
GenesisMike wrote:

No I did not miss what you were saying about cost. I was referencing the effectiveness of the fit itself. Why save some money when what you are flying isn't effective.

It is effective. It has good DPS, a strong tank and great range. Your confusing effective with optimal.

GenesisMike wrote:

Sure its cheaper, the reason those rigs are cheap are because there is a low demand for them since most PVP pilots recognize the importance of survivability over a few extra DPS. Situational fittings may use those rigs but for what the Geddon is primarily used for tank balances the DPS aspect well. This concept of saving money on fits and coming up with a fit that isn't effective to save cash is counter productive.

Your talking about 28k EHP like it makes a world of difference. Roll The 110k EHP is just fine as is it's DPS and Range. In fact they are exceptional for the cost, The Geddon gets more DPS, Range and Tank then an average Tier 2 Battlecruiser which is this fits primary target. It does its job well. Effectively you might say and it does it on the cheap.
GenesisMike wrote:

I think of it like skill points to fly a ship, if you do not have the necessary SP's to properly fly the ship don't get into it yet. Same goes for fitting one, if you cannot afford the correct mods/rigs then just wait a bit longer until you can. Cookie cutter fits are categorized as such for the simple reason that they work well and a majority of ppl use them.

You think wrong then. I am willing to loose 15% performance at 50% the cost of your fit. I will fly it. If I feel that I am in a situation where a bulkier fit is required I will make that fit and be able to afford it just fine. But my Battlcruiser Cost Fit that Pwns Battlecruisers works fine.

If I want a Battleship that works and I decide I don't want to spend as much to make it I will. The numbers are good on this ship.
GenesisMike wrote:

Also I never even commented on using mega pulses on the Geddon, i use duels myself since they have good dps and I have two large neuts on my Geddons. Before you try and correct people be sure to check what they actually said.

I said Megapulse because they are optimal not because you said it. Megapulse Geddon is the Optimal or Cookie Cutter Fit for fleet fights. Whilst Duel Pulse is often used when Heavy Neuts are needed.
GenesisMike
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2011-12-21 06:07:40 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
GenesisMike wrote:

No I did not miss what you were saying about cost. I was referencing the effectiveness of the fit itself. Why save some money when what you are flying isn't effective.

It is effective. It has good DPS, a strong tank and great range. Your confusing effective with optimal.

GenesisMike wrote:

Sure its cheaper, the reason those rigs are cheap are because there is a low demand for them since most PVP pilots recognize the importance of survivability over a few extra DPS. Situational fittings may use those rigs but for what the Geddon is primarily used for tank balances the DPS aspect well. This concept of saving money on fits and coming up with a fit that isn't effective to save cash is counter productive.

Your talking about 28k EHP like it makes a world of difference. Roll The 110k EHP is just fine as is it's DPS and Range. In fact they are exceptional for the cost, The Geddon gets more DPS, Range and Tank then an average Tier 2 Battlecruiser which is this fits primary target. It does its job well. Effectively you might say and it does it on the cheap.
GenesisMike wrote:

I think of it like skill points to fly a ship, if you do not have the necessary SP's to properly fly the ship don't get into it yet. Same goes for fitting one, if you cannot afford the correct mods/rigs then just wait a bit longer until you can. Cookie cutter fits are categorized as such for the simple reason that they work well and a majority of ppl use them.

You think wrong then. I am willing to loose 15% performance at 50% the cost of your fit. I will fly it. If I feel that I am in a situation where a bulkier fit is required I will make that fit and be able to afford it just fine. But my Battlcruiser Cost Fit that Pwns Battlecruisers works fine.

If I want a Battleship that works and I decide I don't want to spend as much to make it I will. The numbers are good on this ship.
GenesisMike wrote:

Also I never even commented on using mega pulses on the Geddon, i use duels myself since they have good dps and I have two large neuts on my Geddons. Before you try and correct people be sure to check what they actually said.

I said Megapulse because they are optimal not because you said it. Megapulse Geddon is the Optimal or Cookie Cutter Fit for fleet fights. Whilst Duel Pulse is often used when Heavy Neuts are needed.



lol Way to backpedal. I would love to find you floating around in one of your cost effective ships. Would be a laughable KM. You enjoy pulling quotes more than reviewing your text and replies it seems. The bottom line is those rigs on a Geddon are not optimal nor are they favorable, and 28k EHP does make a world of difference when you are trying to survive long enough to kill a target. What good is a little more dps if you are not around to project it onto target? When you start flying ships larger than a cruiser and actually fit that Geddon up you will see what im talking about. If i am wrong and you have KM's to prove you have flown that fit effectively please post, otherwise stick to what you actually know, not what you can EFT/assume would be good. My original replies were not directed as a negative rather a suggestion but you have turned this into a back and forth which unfortunately has pulled away from the OP.
Alara IonStorm
#34 - 2011-12-21 06:22:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
GenesisMike wrote:

lol Way to backpedal. I would love to find you floating around in one of your cost effective ships. Would be a laughable KM. You enjoy pulling quotes more than reviewing your text and replies it seems.

Sure bring a Cane or Drake against one.
GenesisMike wrote:

The bottom line is those rigs on a Geddon are not optimal nor are they favorable, and 28k EHP does make a world of difference when you are trying to survive long enough to kill a target. What good is a little more dps if you are not around to project it onto target?

So every ship that has less then 140k EHP is useless in EVE. Roll 110k EHP is a good amount of tank. That is 2.5 Nano Canes right there for the cost of one or 1.75 Armor Canes.
GenesisMike wrote:

When you start flying ships larger than a cruiser and actually fit that Geddon up you will see what im talking about. If i am wrong and you have KM's to prove you have flown that fit effectively please post, otherwise stick to what you actually know, not what you can EFT/assume would be good. My original replies were not directed as a negative rather a suggestion but you have turned this into a back and forth which unfortunately has pulled away from the OP.

I stated I have yet to fly it and set out my schedule to fly it. Feel free to kill it if you wish.

It gets 110k EHP has good DPS and good range for an 80mil Price Tag. If anything besides that matters to you (What type or class of ship / what other people think of the lossmail) then too bad.

Because I really don't care what others think of my Geddon that costs as much as a Harbinger with more EHP / DPS / Range. My Super Harbinger if you will.

This guy in another thread said it best.
GenesisMike wrote:
Then again I always say fly whatever you want and have fun.

Amen Brother. o7
GenesisMike
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2011-12-21 07:08:37 UTC
lol. You entertain me Alara.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#36 - 2011-12-21 18:21:21 UTC
Anyways, thanks everyone for your opinions, I will be training BC 5 soon, then working on more armor and missile support skills to make all my BCs more effective. In the mean time, I'll probably mess around with the Harpy Lol
Gorefacer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-12-22 01:42:00 UTC
GenesisMike wrote:


Someone above posted about a Rattlesnake or Scorpion, one thing that I love to see is a BS trying to solo roam, 3 BC's show up with some neuting power and very quickly most BS's will fall. In PVP i've learned a few things: where theres 1 target there are bound to be more waiting, expect neuts to be used against you, and never solo in a BS!!



Mainly true. I only threw it in their since BS fits were being thrown around and I had heard awhile ago that people have had some sort of solo success with a scorp.

Unless you are flying a ship that is almost impossible to catch (and even then you'll only be killing idiots and frigs at best) solo work is a roll of the dice. You finally find a favorable 1on1 or 1on2 only to have, as you said, a falcon show up or local blow up.

However sometimes there just isn't anyone on and you don't give a **** and go out solo anyway and it can be fun even if it's not the smartest thing to do.
Khrage
#38 - 2011-12-22 01:59:29 UTC
GenesisMike wrote:


Someone above posted about a Rattlesnake or Scorpion, one thing that I love to see is a BS trying to solo roam, 3 BC's show up with some neuting power and very quickly most BS's will fall. In PVP i've learned a few things: where theres 1 target there are bound to be more waiting, expect neuts to be used against you, and never solo in a BS!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X4rMSL5A6M

never ever. Roll
Alara IonStorm
#39 - 2011-12-22 02:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Khrage wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X4rMSL5A6M

never ever. Roll

FC: Megathron on the gate. Everyone fight it at Zero!

Peon: Sir we have 3 Drakes and a Harbinger.

FC: At ******* Zero!

Idiots.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#40 - 2011-12-22 02:09:49 UTC
Gorefacer wrote:
GenesisMike wrote:


Someone above posted about a Rattlesnake or Scorpion, one thing that I love to see is a BS trying to solo roam, 3 BC's show up with some neuting power and very quickly most BS's will fall. In PVP i've learned a few things: where theres 1 target there are bound to be more waiting, expect neuts to be used against you, and never solo in a BS!!



Mainly true. I only threw it in their since BS fits were being thrown around and I had heard awhile ago that people have had some sort of solo success with a scorp.

Unless you are flying a ship that is almost impossible to catch (and even then you'll only be killing idiots and frigs at best) solo work is a roll of the dice. You finally find a favorable 1on1 or 1on2 only to have, as you said, a falcon show up or local blow up.

However sometimes there just isn't anyone on and you don't give a **** and go out solo anyway and it can be fun even if it's not the smartest thing to do.


I solo in a Raven (no gang bonuses, etc) sometimes - especially if I can find a bunch of BCs camping a high sec entrance. They generally are not prepared for 1400 DPS and full tackle coming down on them. The Navy Scorp can do the same thing but has a way bigger tank. I've lost a few that way, but I can normally take on camps of 3-5 people by myself as long as they don't come out with logis or a Falcon.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Previous page123Next page