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What will happen to Dust 514 when next bunch of consoles comes out?

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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#1 - 2011-12-20 19:54:16 UTC
Eve has survived since 2003, and the computers that originally could run it really well cannot run it anymore. This has been made possible due to the upgrade-able and uniform nature of the PC environment. For better or worse, Exefile.exe (wonderfully named as it is) will always be the version to run, regardless of your gaming rig. You may have to upgrade eventually, but that's what owning a PC is all about.

With consoles it's different. The disc from one console won't work in another, and there is no such thing as "upgrading". Once in a while, new consoles just come out, letting the old ones become obsolete as everyone buys the new consoles and switches to new games. This also leads the games on the old consoles into obsolescence.

While this works well for most games, what happens to a persistent universe like Eve when, say, the Playstation 4 comes out? I don't think CCP will want to maintain two versions of Dust.

As someone who does not own, and has no plan to own, a console, I am more concerned about how this will affect Eve itself. As details about the Dust/Eve interaction are not public yet, tinfoil hats are required.

So, your opinion?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-12-20 19:59:04 UTC
There's no disc for dust, its online distribution only.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#3 - 2011-12-20 20:03:57 UTC
There are at LEAST 2 threads on this topic currently, please read the forum before creating new posts.

PST: It will be ok if PS4 comes out, as it will be backwards compatible. 
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Shiganaru
Ignis Aeternus Imperium
#4 - 2011-12-20 20:06:45 UTC
I'm just assuming, don't own a console either. . .

They will probably require a HDD in the console to "update" DUST as changes are made to bother DUST and EVE. If those updates ever get too big, they'd probably just release a new disc or an expansion disc. . .

The next generation of consoles will also move further away from discs. You'll still be able to play with a disc you bought in a store, but the option to download the game will be the preferred option.

PS2 games play on the PS3, so PS3 games will probably play on the PS4.

I would be less worried about hardware upgrades with DUST, and more worried about player boredom and the general attention span of console gamers. Worst case scenario, DUST is integrated with EVE, and people stop playing DUST after 6 months, resulting in a forever defunct mechanic in EVE.

Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#5 - 2011-12-20 20:07:34 UTC
Just like all those PS2 games people still play on the PS3, it will be backwards compatible.


For fun: find the sarcasm in my post.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#6 - 2011-12-20 20:11:22 UTC
All computers use essentially the same hardware, given that I assume the problem with backward compatibilty is.

1. The console producing comapnies DONT WANT TO DO it. For puely commercial reasons ie to encourage developers to develop for the new platform. There would be now sudden need to release GameX PS4 if GameX PS3 ran on PS4's.

2. But it's the same harware you say how do they STOP backward compatability. In that I would assume it's the OS, diffent way of addressing the hardware.

So the problem is not redeveloping the whole client but migrating it to a diffrent OS. A much easier job altogether.

Why don't other companies do this already. Simply because a PS3 game wouldn't sell compared to PS4 games.

With a networked client thats less of a problem. As soon as it's ported to the new OS DUST players can log in EITHER on a PS3 or 4.

Then I assume a PS4 only client would be in the pipeline to take advantages of new specs, similar to the way there used to be a high res and low res version of EVE client.

It's an interesting new development style as far as consoles go.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#7 - 2011-12-20 20:19:53 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Eve has survived since 2003, and the computers that originally could run it really well cannot run it anymore. This has been made possible due to the upgrade-able and uniform nature of the PC environment.
You do realise that in this sense consoles are 'upgradable' too? Since by 'upgrade' you obviously mean 'buy a whole new rig'.


Professor Alphane wrote:
All computers use essentially the same hardware, given that I assume the problem with backward compatibilty is.

1. The console producing comapnies DONT WANT TO DO it. For puely commercial reasons ie to encourage developers to develop for the new platform. There would be now sudden need to release GameX PS4 if GameX PS3 ran on PS4's.

2. But it's the same harware you say how do they STOP backward compatability. In that I would assume it's the OS, diffent way of addressing the hardware.
You assume wrong. Unlike terribad PC developers, console developers write for the hardware, which changes. Of course, I'm sure the console companies are quite happy that they have the option for old games not to work on the new hardware.



And as for the actual question at hand, yes, there's a couple of ways this could trivially be handled.

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Oberine Noriepa
#8 - 2011-12-20 20:22:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Oberine Noriepa
CCP 'building tech for next-gen consoles'

I'm sure Dust 514 will be available for the PlayStation 4.

∃
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#9 - 2011-12-20 20:32:05 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
There are at LEAST 2 threads on this topic currently, please read the forum before creating new posts.

PST: It will be ok if PS4 comes out, as it will be backwards compatible.


I did look for it first, and did not see it. I guess I'm blind. *shrug*



Crumplecorn wrote:
You do realise that in this sense consoles are 'upgradable' too? Since by 'upgrade' you obviously mean 'buy a whole new rig'.


Yes, when I buy a new graphics card for my computer, or upgrade my processor from a dual core to a quad core one, I call it 'buying a whole new rig'.

I am more concerned about this, really:

Xtover wrote:
Just like all those PS2 games people still play on the PS3, it will be backwards compatible.


For fun: find the sarcasm in my post.


I know PS2 games can be played in the PS3, but not the other way around. If Dust remains a PS3 game that is only "ported" to PS4 when it comes out, it will have far sub-par graphics (and possibly even features) compared to other games of the same age. If CCP decides to take advantage of the better graphics and new features, then they cut off the (lessened, but still there) PS3 audience -- or end up supporting two clients.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Ai Shun
#10 - 2011-12-20 20:34:14 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
So, your opinion?


I read this thread on the topic and it contained a lot of opinions.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#11 - 2011-12-20 20:37:31 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
So, your opinion?


I read this thread on the topic and it contained a lot of opinions.


As I have mentioned, I am apparently blind and failed to find the other thread first. I know you don't hear it a lot on these forums, but:

Sorry.

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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#12 - 2011-12-20 20:38:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
what should happen? you download it and play. What happens with eve when a new graphics card is released?

dust uses the unreal engine. One reason why third party engines survive is that they stay compatible.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Ai Shun
#13 - 2011-12-20 20:39:12 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
As I have mentioned, I am apparently blind and failed to find the other thread first.


Yeah, it was active yesterday and has already dropped down several pages. I only knew about it because I was following the Dust discussions yesterday and even so, finding it was a bit of a clickfest.

So, no worries mate, that's why I gave you the link Smile
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#14 - 2011-12-20 20:48:26 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
what should happen? you download it and play. What happens with eve when a new graphics card is released?


When a new graphics card is released, it is usually a more powerful version of an old one, with little special technical advances. Some games are made to take advantage of the special "bling" that the new graphics card offers, but nothing really changes. In addition, on the PC, Eve does not have very significant competition in the MMORPG Sandbox Space pew pew genre -- it's unique. It can afford to lag behind in the latest graphical features for the bonus of giving a compatible and low-spec requirement to everyone.

When a new console is released, not only does it include more processing power, it includes radical new features that are supposed to spur the development of new games. For example, Internet access for the latest consoles. I do not have future-vision, but next-gen consoles will (or rather, should) have something just as revolutionary. New games made for the new-gen consoles will use that feature. Dust will be left in the... well... dust, if it chooses to keep supporting PS3, since it would not be able to adopt whatever new features PS4 brings. In the competitive market for FPSes, it matters.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#15 - 2011-12-20 20:48:32 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Yes, when I buy a new graphics card for my computer, or upgrade my processor from a dual core to a quad core one, I call it 'buying a whole new rig'.
All you've done since 2003 is buy a new graphics card?

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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#16 - 2011-12-20 20:53:58 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Yes, when I buy a new graphics card for my computer, or upgrade my processor from a dual core to a quad core one, I call it 'buying a whole new rig'.
All you've done since 2003 is buy a new graphics card?


Actually my current rig shares no component with my computer in 2003 anymore (oh no my pants are down) but that's because I got a job since then, and decided that playing any game at less than max graphics was unacceptable.

However, my process to my current gaming rig has not been "buy a whole new computer". It usually works along the lines of "buy whatever part you need to plug the performance hole in your computer". Just like when I put a Reactive plate on my Wolf!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Ai Shun
#17 - 2011-12-20 21:04:37 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
When a new console is released, not only does it include more processing power, it includes radical new features that are supposed to spur the development of new games. For example, Internet access for the latest consoles. I do not have future-vision, but next-gen consoles will (or rather, should) have something just as revolutionary. New games made for the new-gen consoles will use that feature. Dust will be left in the... well... dust, if it chooses to keep supporting PS3, since it would not be able to adopt whatever new features PS4 brings. In the competitive market for FPSes, it matters.


CCP + Sony is venturing into new territory with Dust. Do not expect Sony to throw CCP a curveball with the release of the PS4; as they are releasing a title that cross the boundaries between console and PC in a unique way. I would fully expect the current Dust codebase to be done in such a way that it will take advantage of the PS4 or be able to in a short span of time.

Secondly, the release dates for the two products are seemingly converging. Dust would make an excellent launch title for the PS4 (And would be a good way to broaden it's market appeal) But also keep in mind that there are what - 50 odd million PS3 owners out there. Leaving them with nothing would be a bad move.

Now given that Dust is intended to be a downloadable with a $20 Aurum fee (Ignore Freezehunter's insane ramblings about a $60+ pricetag - his story changes more frequently than his underwear). I would expect two versions, one for PS3 and one for PS4 as the game does not COST anything. You are in effect buying an account. And when you upgrade your console, you download the updated version and play that on your existing account.

Seriously don't see a major problem in this unless CCP / Sony is intending to do a Funcom.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#18 - 2011-12-20 21:09:08 UTC
Also keep in mind that supporting perhaps two different versions of possible hardware would be a walk in the park compared to coding to support the innumerable variations of hardware available for the PC.

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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#19 - 2011-12-20 21:10:12 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
... download the updated version and play that on your existing account.


That "updated version" is what concerns me. CCP failed massively with their first release of a "walking around" product -- CQ and WiS in general, so I sort of lack faith in their ability to maintain two or three (depending on whether you count the PC WiS) versions of the same "walking around" game at the same time.

If they can do it, great! But... I can't shake off the feeling that CCP might be biting off more than they can chew.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#20 - 2011-12-20 21:11:57 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Also keep in mind that supporting perhaps two different versions of possible hardware would be a walk in the park compared to coding to support the innumerable variations of hardware available for the PC.


PC has better abstraction of its millions of possibilities via libraries like SDL. Eve also is written in Python, which is famous for its portability. Beyond that though, I have no idea how Eve is coded in the backend in this regard, so I'm not going to speculate.

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