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Navy Apoc vs Nightmare

Author
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#21 - 2016-07-25 15:01:40 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
why is it unhealthy to want to be efficient?

In reverse to this I would say it's unhealthy to be ok with being less efficient when you have the means within your grasp.

Time is the number one commodity in eve, I rather use it effectively when I have it than pander it attempting to make it "afkable"

When I'm playing eve, I'm playing eve, not trying to run facebook and pokemon go while doing level 4 missions.

Why is it unhealthy, OCD. OCD causes stress and stress is an unhealthy condition for any human being.

Setting that aside and going with your second sentence. Being OK with something less than perfect in a computer game is not unhealthy, it is in fact a very good thing because it usually means that they are doing something they want to do in a way that they want to do it and they are doing it simply for the fun and enjoyment of it. And yet this statement causes me to wonder you state that cap stability is bad because slower mission completion times, but you are OK with slower mission completion times because travel time? If maxing your ISK / LP per hour is what you consider "fun" then I submit you are quite likely flying the wrong ship, flying missions in the wrong way, flying the wrong missions or all of these. Perhaps you should look into that as there are no doubt many ways you could increase your efficiency and therefore increase your fun factor.

Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I wasn't the one who was imposing my ideas I was just throwing them out there. So again, why are people creating arguments from nothing?

Funny you should post this considering this earlier post.

Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Don't use cap stable as a goal for missioning, it's lazy and you're holding the ship back from it's actual potential.

Taken in the context of a topic where the OP has specifically stated a preference for a cap stable fit this comment is indeed telling someone what they should do since doing it takes a ship / fit in the opposite direction to what the OP wants.




Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2016-08-06 14:57:16 UTC
I don't care about efficiency. But things like cap stability or auto-aggressing drone ratting is lazy and less engaging gameplay. That is what turns PvE into a grind in the first place.

My suggestion is usually...run whatever is the bare minimum to finish the mission. Run a BC or HAC or something smaller, that requires playing the game. You might have to actually fly the ship, pay attention to your cap/tank/etc, even....dread...warp out on occasion. All these things slow down isk printing, but actually mean playing the game rather than watching TV while your wallet blinks every 20 minutes.

It's also more useful to go out and experiment and learn than just asking on the forums what everyone else flies. Any T1 BS with a decent T2 tank will survive high sec PvE, so choosing one over another is just personal preference. There is no magic 'win' ship or fitting since pretty much anything will do...some just do it faster/easier. Two things that should be the opposite of what you're looking for in challenging or interesting gameplay.

A better question is what two or three ships would work well in a team to do any given content?...and find friends to bring along. Learn to build specialist ships and learn to fly specialist roles. PvE like mission running really should be training for PvP fleet operations instead of forever solo grinding to print isk. But somewhere players completely lost that concept, and it's why there is such a huge gulf between PvE and PvP.
Use PvE to learn, practice, and play this massively multiplayer game with other people. Take turns being the FC and calling targets, broadcasting for reps, building a small fleet comp and fitting for specific roles. All of a sudden you are playing a game rather than AFKing a grind.

None of that is what the OP asked, it's just a suggestion to make Eve's PvE more than a chore where easiest/fastest is the goal.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2016-08-07 21:17:21 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
why is it unhealthy to want to be efficient?

In reverse to this I would say it's unhealthy to be ok with being less efficient when you have the means within your grasp.

Time is the number one commodity in eve, I rather use it effectively when I have it than pander it attempting to make it "afkable"

When I'm playing eve, I'm playing eve, not trying to run facebook and pokemon go while doing level 4 missions.

Why is it unhealthy, OCD. OCD causes stress and stress is an unhealthy condition for any human being.

Setting that aside and going with your second sentence. Being OK with something less than perfect in a computer game is not unhealthy, it is in fact a very good thing because it usually means that they are doing something they want to do in a way that they want to do it and they are doing it simply for the fun and enjoyment of it. And yet this statement causes me to wonder you state that cap stability is bad because slower mission completion times, but you are OK with slower mission completion times because travel time? If maxing your ISK / LP per hour is what you consider "fun" then I submit you are quite likely flying the wrong ship, flying missions in the wrong way, flying the wrong missions or all of these. Perhaps you should look into that as there are no doubt many ways you could increase your efficiency and therefore increase your fun factor.

Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I wasn't the one who was imposing my ideas I was just throwing them out there. So again, why are people creating arguments from nothing?

Funny you should post this considering this earlier post.

Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Don't use cap stable as a goal for missioning, it's lazy and you're holding the ship back from it's actual potential.

Taken in the context of a topic where the OP has specifically stated a preference for a cap stable fit this comment is indeed telling someone what they should do since doing it takes a ship / fit in the opposite direction to what the OP wants.







Do you even know what OCD is?

Being ok with something less than perfect means you don't really care about what you're doing. Even while enjoying games, I'm pretty sure most people get invested and want to do their best because you're rewarded for doing so.

Doing things inefficiently, on the other hand, causes unnecessary stress and I would say that's far more harmful than striving to become better.

There are things known as strong opinions, just because I use an imperative does not mean my word is law. It's a way of expressing that my point of view on this subject is very deep-rooted and I'm highly against the other side of the argument.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#24 - 2016-08-12 02:11:12 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:


Do you even know what OCD is?

Being ok with something less than perfect means you don't really care about what you're doing. Even while enjoying games, I'm pretty sure most people get invested and want to do their best because you're rewarded for doing so.

Doing things inefficiently, on the other hand, causes unnecessary stress and I would say that's far more harmful than striving to become better.

There are things known as strong opinions, just because I use an imperative does not mean my word is law. It's a way of expressing that my point of view on this subject is very deep-rooted and I'm highly against the other side of the argument.



I respect your 'strong opinion', and everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

I'm not saying you are one of those people, but there is a bit of contradiction for many EVE players when they talk about 'efficiency'.

There are people who enjoy PvP in cheap T1 frigates and get great kills with them, and there are people who fly super blings with great skills and do fantastic fights. When it comes to PVP, most PVPers talk about 'fun' rather than efficiency. People talk about flying a specific fit/ship for 'lulz', or do something silly and laugh about it. Of course, there are vets who always knows and brings the best ship/fit for the job, but even those 'efficient' PvPers like to mess around with unusual/inefficient stuff from time to time. I don't know any serious PVPers who don't enjoy 'messing around'. Even those who care so much about KB efficiency lots of them have alt toons for lulz.

Then there is talk about PVE, such as missions, and suddenly efficiency becomes an absolute quality. The general underlying assumption/viewpoint is that PVE in EVE is not enjoyable, so it should be done as efficiently as possible to get the ISK needed and do something else that is fun, like PVP or whatever.

I do share the view that PVE in EVE is very lacking in many ways and it's not the most enjoyable aspect of the game. But people are different and some people do enjoy it - and if they enjoy doing it and they are having lulz in their L4 missions, then efficiency argument is totally irrelevant.

I also like to do my best in what I do generally, both in game and IRL, but if the purpose of playing a game is to get 'fun' out of it, then surely the best I can do in that game is to get most fun out of it, not to be most proficient/efficient in that game - especially if that game is a sandbox game. :p

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-08-12 09:06:52 UTC
Exactly, goals are set by yourself.

I have fun when I'm winning, and winning defined by myself has efficiency tied into it. I'm not saying people who don't prioritise efficiency while pveing are wrong, I'm saying people who do are, in my opinion, having more fun.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#26 - 2016-08-12 09:49:14 UTC
I understand you better now I think hehe, but it's a bit strange to have an opinion on how much 'fun' someone is having. It's alright to have any opinion on anything, but it's totally irrelevant, as in, I could have opinion on how much fun you are having, but that doesn't matter at all because what matters how much fun YOU feel you are having. I mean I could suggest you mine 1b units of veldspar and 'do it in a kestrel' because I have strong opinion that it will be fun, but you could just say 'no' and that would be it. ;)

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

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