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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

First post
Author
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#621 - 2016-08-01 09:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
baltec1 wrote:

Fun fact.

As the game has become safer the rate of growth has declined.

...
EVE was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was much much easier.

Is it correlation or coincidence?

for example in past:
- there was not fozzie-fatique
- there was no t3ds
- exploration was different
- there was not 'c00l new icons'
- ...

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#622 - 2016-08-01 09:49:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
"Being able to ruin somebodies day is one of the cornerstones of Eve, hisec is not exempt from that cornerstone and CCP Falcons statement reflects it."

Maybe if you make it very easy for players that love to ruin somebodies day so they can do it on a industrial scale the result is that you have less users playing....

maybe...


EVE was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was much much easier.


If it's true they should make some new event where Concord decides to go on strike for several months....

let's see subscriptions explode to the fastest growing rate ever!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#623 - 2016-08-01 09:57:11 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Fun fact.

As the game has become safer the rate of growth has declined.

...
EVE was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was much much easier.

Is it correlation or coincidence?

for example in past:
- there was not fozzie-fatique
- there was no t3ds
- exploration was different
- there was not 'c00l new icons'
- ...


Doesn't really matter. Ganking does not negatively impact sub numbers.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#624 - 2016-08-01 10:07:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
"Being able to ruin somebodies day is one of the cornerstones of Eve, hisec is not exempt from that cornerstone and CCP Falcons statement reflects it."

Maybe if you make it very easy for players that love to ruin somebodies day so they can do it on a industrial scale the result is that you have less users playing....

maybe...
Hisec is mechanically safer than it ever has been, if you don't do something daft. Suicide ganking has never been more labour intensive and expensive, war has never offered such a poor return on investment; the only reason that there is any risk left in hisec is that the people who provide it have adapted to each and every change that sought to curtail their activities.

Can flipping is gone.
Awoxing is for all intents and purposes gone as it can be avoided by simply flipping a "switch"
The safety catch was implemented to stop people accidentally flagging themselves for Concordokken.
Concord response times have been buffed, as have their ships.
Crimewatch 2.0 simplified the confusing maze that used to be hisec aggression mechanics, and allows anybody to shoot a suspect.
Mining ships have been changed to offer choice.
Haulers have been changed to offer choice.
Insurance has been removed from ships used to gank.
War has never been more expensive or hard to prosecute.
Suicide ganking is now an expensive and labour intensive activity.

TL;DR You're safer than you have ever been. God help you if Helicity shows up and organises another epic event to show you how unsafe it can be with a big wallet and a concerted effort by hundreds of players.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Giovanni erkelens2
Violent Trans Matching
Neon Nightmares
#625 - 2016-08-01 10:15:13 UTC
NotTheSmartestCookie wrote:


If I want to roleplay I always imagine myself dispensing justice in a Judge-Dread-like fashion vs rapacious mining companies and their lick-spittle henchmen. Invariably these mining cartels are guilty of a combination of the following: 1> wholesale environmental destruction, 2> tax/permit evasion and 3> using illegal AI to run their operations. Small wonder it always feels good to be in CODE.



1: wholesale environmental destruction, lol, dude, really ?
2: thats what player corporations are for, to benefit their ceo and members, with or without taxes, nobody is forced to pay taxes, neither it is mandatory, as for permits, they werent there in the first place, its just something you tools made up, nobody should be forced to purchase something from a third party to make optimal use of a primary gameplay element.
3: at least something relevant comes out of you, on this i agree, using Bots to mine non stop, or doing whatever else in that case is unfair to everyone, and creates unfair competition.
Giovanni erkelens2
Violent Trans Matching
Neon Nightmares
#626 - 2016-08-01 10:20:35 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
"Being able to ruin somebodies day is one of the cornerstones of Eve, hisec is not exempt from that cornerstone and CCP Falcons statement reflects it."

Maybe if you make it very easy for players that love to ruin somebodies day so they can do it on a industrial scale the result is that you have less users playing....

maybe...
Hisec is mechanically safer than it ever has been, if you don't do something daft. Suicide ganking has never been more labour intensive and expensive, war has never offered such a poor return on investment; the only reason that there is any risk left in hisec is that the people who provide it have adapted to each and every change that sought to curtail their activities.

Can flipping is gone.
Awoxing is for all intents and purposes gone as it can be simply avoided by flipping a "switch"
The safety catch was implemented to stop people accidentally flagging themselves for Concordokken.
Concord response times have been buffed, as have their ships.
Crimewatch 2.0 simplified the confusing maze that used to be hisec aggression mechanics, and allows anybody to shoot a suspect.
Mining ships have been changed to offer choice.
Haulers have been changed to offer choice.
Insurance has been removed from ships used to gank.
War has never been more expensive or hard to prosecute.
Suicide ganking is now an expensive and labour intensive activity.

TL;DR You're safer than you have ever been. God help you if Helicity shows up and organises another epic event to show you how unsafe it can be with a big wallet and a concerted effort by hundreds of players.


suicide ganking isnt expensive, nor it is labour intensive, unless you target big frieghters, but even then its simple and doesnt require much more effort than steering a ship and pressing a button. as for solo ganking, all u do is to sit in some spot, wait for a target to come in, and press a button and poof, done. target gone.

awoxing isnt gone, only for corp hopping awoxers, awoxing corps can still do whatever they want.
NotTheSmartestCookie
Shooting Blues Everyday
Gimme Da Loot
#627 - 2016-08-01 10:31:30 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
That sentence is becoming the ever-green exxcuse to justify this ganking/wardec mechanics, too easy.

I would love to have CCP removing some fit slots on every mining/hauling ship and integrate warp core stabs and a much stronger EHP on ships.

Just to force gankers to use 4/5 ships for the ganking.

No one complains for organized multi/ship ganking even in hisec, as no one complains if he lose expensive/big ships in wormhole or nullsec to small gangs/fleet.

It's something acceptable for anyone.

Free one ship ganking is totally different.....and the excuse for it is always the same "hisec not 100% sure"...


An extra-EHP mining barge, I guess we could call it a Procurer.

A quick view on the forum will show you that there is an extra-ordinary amount of whining not only about barges/exhumers being ganked, but also about multi-ship ganking vs freighters. An analysis of the killmails will show that most of the victims did not take advantage of the various buffs offered by CCP, but still fit for max yield or hauling capacity. Note however that the whiners don't call for better fitting tutorials, but just for more buffs for miners and nerfs to gankers.

In any case CCP has already announced another round of buffs for mining barges (details pending). Unfortunately this seems to have thrown the miner-whine-train into overdrive.

Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time.

Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3.

Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#628 - 2016-08-01 10:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
"Being able to ruin somebodies day is one of the cornerstones of Eve, hisec is not exempt from that cornerstone and CCP Falcons statement reflects it."

Maybe if you make it very easy for players that love to ruin somebodies day so they can do it on a industrial scale the result is that you have less users playing....

maybe...


And that is the point. You certainly understand the issue which CCP fails to understand.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#629 - 2016-08-01 10:41:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Giovanni erkelens2 wrote:

suicide ganking isnt expensive, nor it is labour intensive,
So why is it pretty much the sole reserve of groups who can call upon large numbers of players and a large wallet in order to be able to do it?

Quote:
unless you target big frieghters, but even then its simple and doesnt require much more effort than steering a ship and pressing a button.
It looks easy because the people who do it are good at it, practice makes perfect and all that.

Quote:
as for solo ganking, all u do is to sit in some spot, wait for a target to come in, and press a button and poof, done. target gone.
Go try it, while it's certainly possible, afk pods and frigates is pretty much all you'll kill solo. It'll likely cost you more than you make from it, unless you get an afk idiot carrying PLEX or skill injectors AND the loot fairy smiles upon you.

Quote:
awoxing isnt gone, only for corp hopping awoxers, awoxing corps can still do whatever they want.
Try joining a corp with the switch set to no corp aggression and disrupting their operations; Concord shows up and kills your arse, which turns it into suicide ganking. So yeah it's gone, at least in hisec.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#630 - 2016-08-01 10:41:54 UTC
Giovanni erkelens2 wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
"Being able to ruin somebodies day is one of the cornerstones of Eve, hisec is not exempt from that cornerstone and CCP Falcons statement reflects it."

Maybe if you make it very easy for players that love to ruin somebodies day so they can do it on a industrial scale the result is that you have less users playing....

maybe...
Hisec is mechanically safer than it ever has been, if you don't do something daft. Suicide ganking has never been more labour intensive and expensive, war has never offered such a poor return on investment; the only reason that there is any risk left in hisec is that the people who provide it have adapted to each and every change that sought to curtail their activities.

Can flipping is gone.
Awoxing is for all intents and purposes gone as it can be simply avoided by flipping a "switch"
The safety catch was implemented to stop people accidentally flagging themselves for Concordokken.
Concord response times have been buffed, as have their ships.
Crimewatch 2.0 simplified the confusing maze that used to be hisec aggression mechanics, and allows anybody to shoot a suspect.
Mining ships have been changed to offer choice.
Haulers have been changed to offer choice.
Insurance has been removed from ships used to gank.
War has never been more expensive or hard to prosecute.
Suicide ganking is now an expensive and labour intensive activity.

TL;DR You're safer than you have ever been. God help you if Helicity shows up and organises another epic event to show you how unsafe it can be with a big wallet and a concerted effort by hundreds of players.


suicide ganking isnt expensive, nor it is labour intensive, unless you target big frieghters, but even then its simple and doesnt require much more effort than steering a ship and pressing a button. as for solo ganking, all u do is to sit in some spot, wait for a target to come in, and press a button and poof, done. target gone.

awoxing isnt gone, only for corp hopping awoxers, awoxing corps can still do whatever they want.


Your post just screams "opinion made on zero experience or knowledge".
Giovanni erkelens2
Violent Trans Matching
Neon Nightmares
#631 - 2016-08-01 10:53:51 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Giovanni erkelens2 wrote:

suicide ganking isnt expensive, nor it is labour intensive,
So why is it pretty much the sole reserve of groups who can call upon large numbers of players and a large wallet in order to be able to do so?

Quote:
unless you target big frieghters, but even then its simple and doesnt require much more effort than steering a ship and pressing a button.
It looks easy because the people who do it are good at it, practice makes perfect and all that.

Quote:
as for solo ganking, all u do is to sit in some spot, wait for a target to come in, and press a button and poof, done. target gone.
Go try it, while it's certainly possible afk pods and frigates is pretty much all you'll kill solo, and it'll likely cost you more than you make from it unless you get an afk idiot carrying PLEX or skill injectors, and the loot fairy smiles upon you.

Quote:
awoxing isnt gone, only for corp hopping awoxers, awoxing corps can still do whatever they want.
Try joining a corp with the switch set to no corp aggression and disrupting their operations; Concord shows up and kills your arse, which turns it into suicide ganking. So yeah it's gone, at least in hisec.


they call upon players with large wallets because they are able and prepared to loose an expensive ship and buy a new one, not that catalysts or thrashers are very expensive, but talosses and nado's are

solo ganking, ive done it alot, still do it, all i do is sit at some spot in jita, either at the main station or the instawarp station, or in a gate in niarja, all i do is scan ships, and press F1 if i find something thats worth my loss of ship and secstat, and then loot it with my alt. not very difficult. just select ur targets carefully.

awoxing, like i said, is nerfed in high sec for corporation hopping awoxers, thus people who keep joining corps to kill someone in there. awoxing as a corp masquerading as a missionrunning/hauling/mining corp is easy in HS, cuz there you can control the switch yourself, and thus prevent being affected by the consequences corp hopping awoxers would likely face.

ganking in groups is indeed a bit more difficult cuz u need coordination, but its still fairly simple button pushing, only thing that really requires skill is being the FC of the group, and being the freighter bumper. that requires some real skills, but DPSing is easy.
Giovanni erkelens2
Violent Trans Matching
Neon Nightmares
#632 - 2016-08-01 10:55:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Giovanni erkelens2
baltec1 wrote:
Giovanni erkelens2 wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
"Being able to ruin somebodies day is one of the cornerstones of Eve, hisec is not exempt from that cornerstone and CCP Falcons statement reflects it."

Maybe if you make it very easy for players that love to ruin somebodies day so they can do it on a industrial scale the result is that you have less users playing....

maybe...
Hisec is mechanically safer than it ever has been, if you don't do something daft. Suicide ganking has never been more labour intensive and expensive, war has never offered such a poor return on investment; the only reason that there is any risk left in hisec is that the people who provide it have adapted to each and every change that sought to curtail their activities.

Can flipping is gone.
Awoxing is for all intents and purposes gone as it can be simply avoided by flipping a "switch"
The safety catch was implemented to stop people accidentally flagging themselves for Concordokken.
Concord response times have been buffed, as have their ships.
Crimewatch 2.0 simplified the confusing maze that used to be hisec aggression mechanics, and allows anybody to shoot a suspect.
Mining ships have been changed to offer choice.
Haulers have been changed to offer choice.
Insurance has been removed from ships used to gank.
War has never been more expensive or hard to prosecute.
Suicide ganking is now an expensive and labour intensive activity.

TL;DR You're safer than you have ever been. God help you if Helicity shows up and organises another epic event to show you how unsafe it can be with a big wallet and a concerted effort by hundreds of players.


suicide ganking isnt expensive, nor it is labour intensive, unless you target big frieghters, but even then its simple and doesnt require much more effort than steering a ship and pressing a button. as for solo ganking, all u do is to sit in some spot, wait for a target to come in, and press a button and poof, done. target gone.

awoxing isnt gone, only for corp hopping awoxers, awoxing corps can still do whatever they want.


Your post just screams "opinion made on zero experience or knowledge".


i could explain to you why im not inexperienced and why i know stuff, but you would likely ignore that, so ill just say, go and look up my killboard, ull see why im not as dimwitted as you think.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#633 - 2016-08-01 11:04:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Fun fact.

As the game has become safer the rate of growth has declined.

...
EVE was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was much much easier.

Is it correlation or coincidence?

for example in past:
- there was not fozzie-fatique
- there was no t3ds
- exploration was different
- there was not 'c00l new icons'
- ...


Doesn't really matter. Ganking does not negatively impact sub numbers.

And again. Where are proofs?
One could say that ganking negatively impacts sub numbers and other factors hide it by positively impact these. So when there is less these 'other factors' ganking becomes major factor and sub numbers start to decrease.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#634 - 2016-08-01 11:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Giovanni erkelens2 wrote:
they call upon players with large wallets because they are able and prepared to loose an expensive ship and buy a new one, not that catalysts or thrashers are very expensive, but talosses and nado's are
Try reading what I wrote and try again.

Quote:
solo ganking, ive done it alot, still do it, all i do is sit at some spot in jita, either at the main station or the instawarp station, or in a gate in niarja, all i do is scan ships, and press F1 if i find something thats worth my loss of ship and secstat, and then loot it with my alt. not very difficult. just select ur targets carefully.
Nowhere did I say it wasn't possible, and your KB somewhat proves my point, there's an awful lot of frigates and pods on it.

Quote:
awoxing, like i said, is nerfed in high sec for corporation hopping awoxers, thus people who keep joining corps to kill someone in there. awoxing as a corp masquerading as a missionrunning/hauling/mining corp is easy in HS, cuz there you can control the switch yourself, and thus prevent being affected by the consequences corp hopping awoxers would likely face.
Masqerading as a mining/missioning corp is reverse awoxing, flipping that switch doesn't take effect for 24 hours and each and every member of that corp is given notice that you've flipped the switch the moment you do it.

Quote:
ganking in groups is indeed a bit more difficult cuz u need coordination, but its still fairly simple button pushing, only thing that really requires skill is being the FC of the group, and being the freighter bumper. that requires some real skills, but DPSing is easy.
Ummm everything in Eve is fairly simple button pushing when you get down to the nitty gritty of it, what's your point?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#635 - 2016-08-01 11:16:01 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Fun fact.

As the game has become safer the rate of growth has declined.

...
EVE was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was much much easier.

Is it correlation or coincidence?

for example in past:
- there was not fozzie-fatique
- there was no t3ds
- exploration was different
- there was not 'c00l new icons'
- ...


Doesn't really matter. Ganking does not negatively impact sub numbers.

And again. Where are proofs?
One could say that ganking negatively impacts sub numbers and other factors hide it by positively impact these. So when there is less these 'other factors' ganking becomes major factor and sub numbers start to decrease.


I'd say it's up to you to prove ganking does have an impact given that subs were rising at their fastest rate while ganking was much easier.
Giovanni erkelens2
Violent Trans Matching
Neon Nightmares
#636 - 2016-08-01 11:33:50 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Giovanni erkelens2 wrote:
they call upon players with large wallets because they are able and prepared to loose an expensive ship and buy a new one, not that catalysts or thrashers are very expensive, but talosses and nado's are
Try reading what I wrote and try again.

Quote:
solo ganking, ive done it alot, still do it, all i do is sit at some spot in jita, either at the main station or the instawarp station, or in a gate in niarja, all i do is scan ships, and press F1 if i find something thats worth my loss of ship and secstat, and then loot it with my alt. not very difficult. just select ur targets carefully.
Nowhere did I say it wasn't possible, and your KB somewhat proves my point, there's an awful lot of frigates and pods on it.

Quote:
awoxing, like i said, is nerfed in high sec for corporation hopping awoxers, thus people who keep joining corps to kill someone in there. awoxing as a corp masquerading as a missionrunning/hauling/mining corp is easy in HS, cuz there you can control the switch yourself, and thus prevent being affected by the consequences corp hopping awoxers would likely face.
Masqerading as a mining/missioning corp is reverse awoxing, flipping that switch doesn't take effect for 24 hours and each and every member of that corp is given notice that you've flipped the switch the moment you do it.

Quote:
ganking in groups is indeed a bit more difficult cuz u need coordination, but its still fairly simple button pushing, only thing that really requires skill is being the FC of the group, and being the freighter bumper. that requires some real skills, but DPSing is easy.
Ummm everything in Eve is fairly simple button pushing when you get down to the nitty gritty of it, what's your point?


my point is is that ganking isnt really labour intensive, while some people call it labour intensive.

of course there is alot of frigates and pods and other stuff, probably because i did tons of other things besides ganking, and why would you not shoot someone that is suspect. its not like there is an unending stream of haulers filled with loot undocking from jita or whatever place you wish, so you might as well shoot frigates while youre waiting for the valuable hauler to undock.

yes, it costs much, and you arent always lucky when u kill something and the loot drops. but if you do it right and select the right targets you can easily make tons of money from ganking.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#637 - 2016-08-01 11:35:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Fun fact.

As the game has become safer the rate of growth has declined.

...
EVE was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was much much easier.

Is it correlation or coincidence?

for example in past:
- there was not fozzie-fatique
- there was no t3ds
- exploration was different
- there was not 'c00l new icons'
- ...


Doesn't really matter. Ganking does not negatively impact sub numbers.

And again. Where are proofs?
One could say that ganking negatively impacts sub numbers and other factors hide it by positively impact these. So when there is less these 'other factors' ganking becomes major factor and sub numbers start to decrease.


I'd say it's up to you to prove ganking does have an impact given that subs were rising at their fastest rate while ganking was much easier.

So this is anecdotal evidence. Thanks.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#638 - 2016-08-01 11:56:41 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

So this is anecdotal evidence. Thanks.


More evidence than the "ganking hurts sub numbers" has.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#639 - 2016-08-01 12:05:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
March rabbit wrote:

So this is anecdotal evidence. Thanks.

So is everything said running conter to it.
Ccp have stated that one of the largest factors that negativly effect retention is non-engagement with the community,
Ganking objectivly produces this , just look at the ammount of op's we have had recently with fire in their belly about it.
The only reason they dont ed up as antiganking white knights is the established ones are hilariously incompitant and incapable of forming a counter movement, so the come here an **** and moan about it not being fair.
Yeah im aware thats my biased opinion but thats all year going to get from this thread anyway.
Edit: I hate this phone.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#640 - 2016-08-01 12:14:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

So this is anecdotal evidence. Thanks.


More evidence than the "ganking hurts sub numbers" has.


It was only a matter of time before the "General Discussion Requirement for Evidence" showed up. That requirement can be summed up as : "I reject your argument on the basis of you having little evidence, despite the fact that my own belief is based on zero measurable evidence".