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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

First post
Author
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#421 - 2016-07-29 12:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Judaa K'Marr wrote:
Star Wars and Star Trek are both popular again. Two tired old space formats that now got a second wind.

Answer is clear - CCP need to hire JJ Abrams.


Less Abrams and more Straczynski, please.


--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#422 - 2016-07-29 14:19:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Malcanis wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I think there are less players because the world is getting to be a dangerous place and people are waking up and finding video games boring.

Seriously: when you see on the news what's going on, who needs Eve Online? The whole RL world is getting way more interesting.

And that, BTW, is the natural human condition. Not this playtime. With the crap going on in the world these days, if someone near me starts harping about some MMO nerd drama as if (or in place of) it was a bad relationship with a woman or business deals, my first impulse is to punch him in the brain stem and take his stuff. Nobody is going to care about your stats or how much ISK you have when things go down IRL.


(Ok maybe I have played too much Eve but why should stuff be wasted in the possession of the stupid?)


Eve launched 2 years after 9/11, when the west was involved in 2 active wars.


Exactly. People may be outgrowing MMOs, and there may be a general perception that the world is getting worse, but that perception is false.

We simply live in a time of 24/7 news and instant reporting (everyone has a camera phone) that makes things seem way worse. The fact that western society is aging is also part of it, the older we get the worse things seem.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#423 - 2016-07-29 14:25:55 UTC
/shrug

EvE is a pastime, politics is my sport, knowledge of world events is instrumental to my career.
The world has been in worse messes. It's just now better able to react to them.

Oh... at least here, it's political season, so up the emotion x10.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#424 - 2016-07-29 14:28:27 UTC
The fact remains that there is not any new **** to do in a long time. The fun old stuff to do got nerfed or changed or whatever you want to call it so that it was accessible to more people but nothing was put in to replace it. I guess you could make a case for burner missions but those seem so stupid I never even tried them.

Give us something to do in game already. You've balanced ships for long enough. We've waited patiently for like 2 years while this road map plays itself out. Time for some actual activities. Incursions, wormholes, stuff like that. Get on it.

Not today spaghetti.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#425 - 2016-07-29 14:36:06 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
The fact remains that there is not any new **** to do in a long time. The fun old stuff to do got nerfed or changed or whatever you want to call it so that it was accessible to more people but nothing was put in to replace it. I guess you could make a case for burner missions but those seem so stupid I never even tried them.

Give us something to do in game already. You've balanced ships for long enough. We've waited patiently for like 2 years while this road map plays itself out. Time for some actual activities. Incursions, wormholes, stuff like that. Get on it.


Found your problem and highlighted it, how can you ask for more stuff if you haven't even used the stuff they gave 1st?.

EVE is best for people who know how to refresh content on their own, and treat new CCP made content as a 'bonus'. For example I spent some of last week trying new 'regen' type fits in lvl 5 missions. Lost an Ishtar and a maelstrom before finding the right balance.

With all due respect to CCP, They are fairly horrible at 'content' (go try some Drifter Incursions...or wait you can't), but superb and making new tools for us to make our own content (Command Dessie alts turn out to be awesome helpers for high end ded complexes and lvl 5 missions). Many of you lot would be way happier if you learned to experiment.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#426 - 2016-07-29 14:37:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I think there are less players because the world is getting to be a dangerous place and people are waking up and finding video games boring.

Seriously: when you see on the news what's going on, who needs Eve Online? The whole RL world is getting way more interesting.

And that, BTW, is the natural human condition. Not this playtime. With the crap going on in the world these days, if someone near me starts harping about some MMO nerd drama as if (or in place of) it was a bad relationship with a woman or business deals, my first impulse is to punch him in the brain stem and take his stuff. Nobody is going to care about your stats or how much ISK you have when things go down IRL.


(Ok maybe I have played too much Eve but why should stuff be wasted in the possession of the stupid?)


Eve launched 2 years after 9/11, when the west was involved in 2 active wars.


Exactly. People may be outgrowing MMOs, and there may be a general perception that the world is getting worse, but that perception is false.

We simply live in a time of 24/7 news and instant reporting (everyone has a camera phone) that makes things seem way worse. The fact that western society is aging is also part of it, the older we get the worse things seem.


Hard to argue this year isn't exceptionally ****.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#427 - 2016-07-29 14:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
So trying to get the thread locked by real world stuff, typical ganker circle jerk forum warrior stuff, you should both should get forum bans for this as you do it so often, but not as blatantly as this.

Edit: I have saved this link and will be linking to it when the thread gets locked so we can show just what you are up to.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#428 - 2016-07-29 14:50:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
baltec1 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I think there are less players because the world is getting to be a dangerous place and people are waking up and finding video games boring.

Seriously: when you see on the news what's going on, who needs Eve Online? The whole RL world is getting way more interesting.

And that, BTW, is the natural human condition. Not this playtime. With the crap going on in the world these days, if someone near me starts harping about some MMO nerd drama as if (or in place of) it was a bad relationship with a woman or business deals, my first impulse is to punch him in the brain stem and take his stuff. Nobody is going to care about your stats or how much ISK you have when things go down IRL.


(Ok maybe I have played too much Eve but why should stuff be wasted in the possession of the stupid?)


Eve launched 2 years after 9/11, when the west was involved in 2 active wars.


Exactly. People may be outgrowing MMOs, and there may be a general perception that the world is getting worse, but that perception is false.

We simply live in a time of 24/7 news and instant reporting (everyone has a camera phone) that makes things seem way worse. The fact that western society is aging is also part of it, the older we get the worse things seem.


Hard to argue this year isn't exceptionally ****.


It only seems that way (if you live in the West)
Quote:
The majority of the global deterioration is due to the developments in the Middle East and Africa (MENA), already the least peaceful region in the world. So intense is the current concentration of violence and conflict in MENA that, when considered separately, the rest of the world’s average peace levels improved. Three of the five biggest country declines in peace occurred in the region: Yemen, Libya and Bahrain.


I know people 'feel' differently, simply pointing out that for most of us there is no real basis for it, surely not enough to affect video game numbers.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#429 - 2016-07-29 17:03:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
The fact remains that there is not any new **** to do in a long time. The fun old stuff to do got nerfed or changed or whatever you want to call it so that it was accessible to more people but nothing was put in to replace it. I guess you could make a case for burner missions but those seem so stupid I never even tried them.

Give us something to do in game already. You've balanced ships for long enough. We've waited patiently for like 2 years while this road map plays itself out. Time for some actual activities. Incursions, wormholes, stuff like that. Get on it.


Found your problem and highlighted it, how can you ask for more stuff if you haven't even used the stuff they gave 1st?.

EVE is best for people who know how to refresh content on their own, and treat new CCP made content as a 'bonus'. For example I spent some of last week trying new 'regen' type fits in lvl 5 missions. Lost an Ishtar and a maelstrom before finding the right balance.

With all due respect to CCP, They are fairly horrible at 'content' (go try some Drifter Incursions...or wait you can't), but superb and making new tools for us to make our own content (Command Dessie alts turn out to be awesome helpers for high end ded complexes and lvl 5 missions). Many of you lot would be way happier if you learned to experiment.


1 NPC behind a gate.

1.

I swore about 4 years ago I wasn't ever going to get into a discussion with you again as my face breaks out from all the face palming you make me do.

Not today spaghetti.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#430 - 2016-07-29 17:17:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Sexy Cakes wrote:


1 NPC behind a gate.

1.

I swore about 4 years ago I wasn't ever going to get into a discussion with you again as my face breaks out from all the face palming you make me do.


It's not just one npc, it's up to 4 in Bases. And those NPcs are actually interesting, enough to spawn 2 year long discussions like this. People are STILL experimenting in burner missions.

Yet in your ignorance you can't even be bothered to try them before complaining that there is 'nothing new to do'. That demonstrates that the problem here is you and your self limiting behavior, not that there is 'nothing to do in the game'.

Feel free to face palm when you realize you blamed the game and CCP for your own personal issues.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#431 - 2016-07-29 17:23:58 UTC
there are many reasons why numbers go up and down, some people here are on the right track while others just seem to make it up as they go.

only ccp have full access to all of the data needed to start pointing at what may be causing issues, if there are any Roll but here's a crazy thought.

when is the last time you seen any adverts for EVEonline outside of your browser ?

so who exactly are we attracting to play the game?

it seems to me that finding EVE is all about the right person at the right time and place convincing a mate online to give it a go. or a chance mention to a friend in real life about this game we play called EVE, i nearly always get this,,, EVE,,,,, wha's that?
while with gaming mates online i always get hmmm, yea heard of it,, might give it a go,, heard it's really hard to learn.

I'm not sure it's as big a problem as some would like to make it out to be, blaming everything from ganking to war decs to null mechanics, to any feckin game change that happens, then along ye all come with your answers to a issue you do not have the full data on.

spec u feckin lation,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, noting much more.

gamers come gamers go, this is the way of it. anyone online playing any game long enough will tell you this.
the natural progression and life of a community, sometimes it's epic beyond belief, other times it's not so epic.

why do numbers go down?

no one ever asks why do they go up.

negative fecks. Roll






Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#432 - 2016-07-29 17:36:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Good news though, it seems like every other game is dying too.

Elite is dying
https://www.google.com/search?q=elite+dangeorus+is+dying&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=elite+dangerous+is+dying

STO is dying too
https://www.google.com/search?q=star+trek+online+is+dying&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Oh crap, SWTOR too!
https://www.google.com/search?q=star+trek+online+is+dying&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

I could go on lol.


TL;DR "my game is dying....but it's not dying" anxiety is by no means an EVE exclusive phenomenon.
Murena D'Morrigane
Doomheim
#433 - 2016-07-29 17:46:08 UTC
Nuffin to see here people, move along now.
Dont worry, be happy Lol
Everything is awesome, REALLY!
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#434 - 2016-07-29 18:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lex Gabinia
Dracvlad wrote:

CCP don't do account linking, which is a real shame, I wish they would, it would solve other issues...

But the new player is handicapped because he has to run around in much more vulnerable ships, so they get carved up easily by hordes of bored vets with axes to grind, which is what I think CODE is. Perhaps CCP should enable all new players to have and be able to fly a DST from the start and put in a full tank fit with special modules. Perhaps also start them so they can fly a Procurer with a good tank fit and again supply them with that.



Are you seriously suggesting that brand new character should be given a DST and Procurer? And provided the skills to fly it? You do realize all of the prerequisite skills would then be given as well including:

Industry Level V
[Racial] Industrial Level V

Plus whatever skills required for your suggested "special modules" for the fit.

And not to mention who will supply these free ships? Because I'm sure the industrialist are pleased you just suggested that you destroy two entire market segments for them.


Why not just let everybody fly a damn titan the day they sign up? Golden ammo and diamond armor for everyone! What the actual **** are you on about?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#435 - 2016-07-29 19:29:37 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


CCP don't do account linking, which is a real shame, I wish they would, it would solve other issues...

But the new player is handicapped because he has to run around in much more vulnerable ships, so they get carved up easily by hordes of bored vets with axes to grind, which is what I think CODE is. Perhaps CCP should enable all new players to have and be able to fly a DST from the start and put in a full tank fit with special modules. Perhaps also start them so they can fly a Procurer with a good tank fit and again supply them with that.

War decs, it is a difficult one because you are dealing with two extremes, players that want to avoid it at all costs and players who largely want to farm easy kills with no risk. Trying to create a war dec system around those two extremes is just kinda meh and I feel for the CCP Devs in terms of this, but the existing system can be adjusted, I went and looked at it in detail and it is actually a good system which needs a few tweaks. The issue rests mainly with the player base and how it has developed in hisec. The ideal sitaution would see small but active corps being war decced by equally small and active corps that are not going to farm them in GTFO ships or massed neutral RR backed up on high grades in a pimped Proteus to kill a poorly fitted Ferox for example and have something to fight over which has meaningful value. I made a suggestion of giving watch list functionality with an OS on a per constellation basis, which is vulnerable when in operation. For a defender that has real strategic value.

Having new players involved in that sort of content could be fun.

I have recently seen some bigger hisec corps, which I think happened due to the watch list changes, I was rather happy to see that and gives me some hope, though I was wondering how many of them were Goon alts filling in time and a lack of income on their mains, hu hum...

I would reduce the cost of war decs to max 25m on a corp and 100m on an alliance, I would make it so the war dec follows a player if he joins a player corp within 7 days of leaving a war dec corp. On the other side I think I would try to put a restriction ona corp from having any other war decs for a period of time, but have that for anyone who has actually lost a ship... A limit to the war dec should be there, two weeks, perhaps more. However these limits should be removed once the environment in hisec has become more healthy, if that is ever possible...


Nice story, however, CCP's analysis of new players getting ganked indicate quite the contrary. "New" players were ganked at a rate of about 1%.

As for starting out new players with a full fitted DST...yes, CCP needs to engage in more player hand holding.

The notion of ganking is a huge problem is a claim where people like Dracvlad do literally nothing in terms of providing empirical data. I did look at the number of retrievers ganked on July 26 via zkill and it was a whopping 33. And that is likely an over estimate in that there maybe some war dec kills in there. Now, if July 26 is typical, ganking retrievers is not a huge thing, IMO. BTW, I also looked at skiffs for the same day, and there were two kills in HS, and those looked very much like war dec kills (I doubt people gank in cynabals).

The problem with war decs is the underlying incentive problem. One side does NOT want to PvP...at all. The other side does. There is no way a structure will address this problem and leave both sides feeling better off. In fact, I doubt there is a solution via mechanics because the problem is NOT mechanics, but incentives.

Further, it is unlikely the issue of large war dec alliances is not going to be solved by rolling back the changes that created them. These people have gotten used to working together, they have become friends and as such, if these changes that lead to the creation of these alliances are rolled back that those alliances will disband. There might be some corps that leave, but my guess is the big alliances are here to stay. And anchoring a structure (what is it with these people and structures?) if it is vulnerable all the time, then that will again push towards big alliances to get complete TZ coverage. If you give them a vulnerability window (like most structures in game) they'll do pretty much nothing. As nobody is going to undock to shoot such structures in the vulnerability window as it will draw the war dec corp right down on top of them.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#436 - 2016-07-29 19:30:55 UTC
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

CCP don't do account linking, which is a real shame, I wish they would, it would solve other issues...

But the new player is handicapped because he has to run around in much more vulnerable ships, so they get carved up easily by hordes of bored vets with axes to grind, which is what I think CODE is. Perhaps CCP should enable all new players to have and be able to fly a DST from the start and put in a full tank fit with special modules. Perhaps also start them so they can fly a Procurer with a good tank fit and again supply them with that.



Are you seriously suggesting that brand new character should be given a DST and Procurer? And provided the skills to fly it? You do realize all of the prerequisite skills would then be given as well including:

Industry Level V
[Racial] Industrial Level V

Plus whatever skills required for your suggested "special modules" for the fit.

And not to mention who will supply these free ships? Because I'm sure the industrialist are pleased you just suggested that you destroy two entire market segments for them.


Why not just let everybody fly a damn titan the day they sign up? Golden ammo and diamond armor for everyone! What the actual **** are you on about?


There is that. Start an account, get the freebies, sell them, transfer the ISK, biomass. Yeah, no problem there. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#437 - 2016-07-29 19:45:58 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

CCP don't do account linking, which is a real shame, I wish they would, it would solve other issues...

But the new player is handicapped because he has to run around in much more vulnerable ships, so they get carved up easily by hordes of bored vets with axes to grind, which is what I think CODE is. Perhaps CCP should enable all new players to have and be able to fly a DST from the start and put in a full tank fit with special modules. Perhaps also start them so they can fly a Procurer with a good tank fit and again supply them with that.



Are you seriously suggesting that brand new character should be given a DST and Procurer? And provided the skills to fly it? You do realize all of the prerequisite skills would then be given as well including:

Industry Level V
[Racial] Industrial Level V

Plus whatever skills required for your suggested "special modules" for the fit.

And not to mention who will supply these free ships? Because I'm sure the industrialist are pleased you just suggested that you destroy two entire market segments for them.


Why not just let everybody fly a damn titan the day they sign up? Golden ammo and diamond armor for everyone! What the actual **** are you on about?


There is that. Start an account, get the freebies, sell them, transfer the ISK, biomass. Yeah, no problem there. Roll


Sounds like a normal ganker behavoiur Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#438 - 2016-07-29 19:46:44 UTC
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

CCP don't do account linking, which is a real shame, I wish they would, it would solve other issues...

But the new player is handicapped because he has to run around in much more vulnerable ships, so they get carved up easily by hordes of bored vets with axes to grind, which is what I think CODE is. Perhaps CCP should enable all new players to have and be able to fly a DST from the start and put in a full tank fit with special modules. Perhaps also start them so they can fly a Procurer with a good tank fit and again supply them with that.



Are you seriously suggesting that brand new character should be given a DST and Procurer? And provided the skills to fly it? You do realize all of the prerequisite skills would then be given as well including:

Industry Level V
[Racial] Industrial Level V

Plus whatever skills required for your suggested "special modules" for the fit.

And not to mention who will supply these free ships? Because I'm sure the industrialist are pleased you just suggested that you destroy two entire market segments for them.


Why not just let everybody fly a damn titan the day they sign up? Golden ammo and diamond armor for everyone! What the actual **** are you on about?


Market is dying anyway.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Cerius Lennar
O S I R I S
#439 - 2016-07-29 19:52:00 UTC
Rainey Dhey wrote:
The problems I see with Eve is that its very top heavy. It took me several years of coming and going before I finally even understood what Eve was and was about. Since then, I've seen a lot of things happen.

From a new players perspective, I can easily see someone diving into EVE, learning a few things, joining a corp only for the corp to get wardecced as part of the blanket deccing many of the big corps do, then losing a ship, being told to dock up and not play for a week by their CEO and saing "**** this game".

Or maybe you are in PVP corp, but you get decced by a big merc corp, again, blanket deccing everyone and then being told by your CEO to dock up for a week because you cant compete with this big merc corp. "**** this game".

You'll say "Hire another corp and fight them, or band together and fight them off." umm, all of the big merc corps are allied to eachother because they are all too sissified to actually take on anyone that will challenge them as its easier to blop smaller corps and act powerful and big.

It's top heavy. CCP is always trying to push people into low/null sec when a lot of players simply dont want o go there.
They wont change the blanket deccing going on which would give more newb friendly corps a chance to thrive and ultimately is committing a slow and painful suicide over time.

Its seems CCP is more about fueling the loss of ships to keep the economy in check at the expense of losing players to frustration or lack of play.



This is exactly the problem. We are experiencing this right now, and it's amazing to me how less important new players are to this game.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#440 - 2016-07-29 19:55:16 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

CCP don't do account linking, which is a real shame, I wish they would, it would solve other issues...

But the new player is handicapped because he has to run around in much more vulnerable ships, so they get carved up easily by hordes of bored vets with axes to grind, which is what I think CODE is. Perhaps CCP should enable all new players to have and be able to fly a DST from the start and put in a full tank fit with special modules. Perhaps also start them so they can fly a Procurer with a good tank fit and again supply them with that.



Are you seriously suggesting that brand new character should be given a DST and Procurer? And provided the skills to fly it? You do realize all of the prerequisite skills would then be given as well including:

Industry Level V
[Racial] Industrial Level V

Plus whatever skills required for your suggested "special modules" for the fit.

And not to mention who will supply these free ships? Because I'm sure the industrialist are pleased you just suggested that you destroy two entire market segments for them.


Why not just let everybody fly a damn titan the day they sign up? Golden ammo and diamond armor for everyone! What the actual **** are you on about?


There is that. Start an account, get the freebies, sell them, transfer the ISK, biomass. Yeah, no problem there. Roll


Sounds like a normal ganker behavoiur Roll


No, typical Eve behavior.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online