EVE General Discussion

Aha.... how many posts are about market recently?

Nobody seems to have problem with it somehow. Just saying. Its a thing I like personally.

I would say its a troll.

I would suggest that the reason you would see this idea as a troll is because it completely breaks the original game design and a fundamental part of the game - a free and competitive market.

Asking for PvP exclusion zones, corps, golden tokens, etc. breaks another original game design and a fundamental part of them game - it is a PvP game.

Here's my own personal reasons, but I feel I am hardly alone:

1) I joined when I was young(er), a decade does not sound too much but... life happens and suddenly games get less priority.

2) I joined because I love sci-fi games. Back at the time EvE was the one choice (more about this later).

3) I joined because I love PvP games. But EvE's PvP quickly turned up to be a choice between quickly finding fights in a boring blob, or finding neat small scale fights every way, way too long time. I am accustomed playing "premade" teams in other games, where a person may hone their skills and have action and fun all the time as long as they contact another top team. In EvE it's much more complicated than that. After a while, the feeling of having been so good to find a good fight fades, they are too rare.

4) I love twitch / skill games or "full immersion" sims. EvE is a bit... ankward (and mouse clicker game) in the first department and not really immersive, where by "immersion" I mean something like being able to dogfight or micromanage a landing / passing through an hole in a mountain and so on.

5) For a space sim, I always found EvE being SO lacking when it comes to interacting with planets and suns. No planetary walk / exploration worth noting, no real effects coming from very copycat stars.

6) Seeing how PvP was not what I hoped to be, I turned into playing the markets. Made 300 billions years ago and just got... enough. Just by loaning some of that, I make enough PLEXES for an army of alts in interests.
I have tried playing "general commander", hiring mercs, making corps fight each against another... in the end it gets boring.

7) Have been to all kinds of sec, done all sorts of stuff and lifestyles except pirating (not my thing, however gate camping *can* be fun if you know you can get a nice fight. IF.)

8) In general, as it's natural, the more a player plays, the better he gets with a game and he / she finds it easier.

CCP added general, tangible dumbing EvE down over time. Therefore, to me, EvE became way too easy to win at.

9) Never ending watering down of lore, ships (and fittings) uniqueness.

10) Getting back to 1 and 2: EVE used to be very time demanding. I recall setting my alarm clock to 3am in order to train my next skills. Same for corporation ops: be it POS bashing or whatever boring, time was set in a way that is incompatible with having a life with responsibilities.
Then CCP made a lot of changes and EvE is less demanding now. However there are things that require hours to do and that's it.

Some newer sci-fi games are tailored around more practical gameplay, less contiguous time is needed. In some cases you are almost always 5 minutes away from being able to dock, land or whatever and attend your RL obligations.

11) Some key areas never really got beyond a facelift. Basic ships "physics" felt similar to "flying submarine" for a decade. Markets facilities got some fresher looks and some changes but are generally firmly stuck to 2003 mechanics.
Production, the big plus of EvE, has always been way too easy to create "best quality" products, no real "personal touch" to enable dedicated industrials to shine. Sure, they can use software / Excel and achieve a super-profitable operation by overloading the markets with zillions of easily made stuff but that's it. OK, getting to make supercaps is a mission in itself, but it takes years. Years of repeat-it-again.

I could go on for days listing more factors, in example the 2011-2012 3rd party developers debacle, the $1000 jeans and so on.

It is absolutely the same. The core of the game has been PvP from day one. You can engage in multiple forms of PvP from day one. Now you want to change it. That is a fundamental shift in the nature of the game. And HS has always had war decs and ganking.

Now you want to go whole hog and simple proscribe ganking and war decs. And you suppose these will be better changes. They are the exact opposite of better changes for all. Clearly those who do use war decs and ganking will not be better off. Second, even for those who mine and haul they will have a smaller market because ganking and war decs destroy lots of ships which in turn creates a demand for more ships and modules to replace those destroyed.

Further, ganking is usually the result of players being dump. I mean downright dumb. If you put 8 billion ISK worth of stuff in a freighter and run through Niarja without even a scout you are dumb. You took a stupid and foolish risk. A scout could have prevented. A single scout. Not overloading the freighter would make you a less appealing target. Fitting a tank means it will take a bigger fleet to gank you. All of these things can prevent a gank. But nope, a stupid and foolish player should be allowed to be stupid and foolish.

Eve has always been a game about choices....and consequences. But you want to take the second part away. Now everyone will max out their freighters for space. We might as well remove the fitting options for freighters and just make them max space. Of course, the price differentials between regions will become very, very small. Because moving stuff between regions in HS will be easy and cheap.

I'm sorry, but you just can't see beyond your own narrow vision. A player who is prudent in the current environment can get by just fine. What you are arguing for is making imprudent the norm and even eliminating choice.

Your suggestion is the very opposite of what this game is about and it will not make the game better.

Be that is it may be, Ganking & Wardecs are very important for a healthy EVE. They are good things for the game.
The bad things for the game are not ganking, but the lack of serious fitting options for an industrial, & the lack of interaction. A gank is at most 25 seconds in a 0.5 sector, often more like 15 seconds. The industrial (With the exception of DST which are almost there) can turn hardeners on if they have them, and pray the ganker did the maths wrong.
A longer gank timer is needed, Ideally concord spawns are replaced by a remote self destruct so that no NPC spawn lag is caused in larger ganks, and industrials need real fitting options to increase interactions, options & decisions. Then it can be just as fun losing to a gank rather than the present form which feels like a server generated RNG chance every time you jump a gate you might die. (Yes there are things that lessen the odds, but nothing you do can ever remove them)

Also Teckos, the victim is not dumb. Unfortunate perhaps, but even in a game lets get away from victim blaming language. If we get in the habit here of blaming the victim it carries over to RL, and at the end of the day, the ganker is the one that chose to pull the trigger. Especially when utterly empty freighters, industrials & shuttles get ganked sometimes just because the ganker is bored and wants to make something go bang.

Of course he is because he dont play the game the way he should.
Like Jesus on T-Rex, whooping extatically and praising the CODE of High sec, James, savior of high sec, would say.
That was only to satirically underline all of that what has been said.

Speaking of, where the hell is he?

Ye gods man, you couldn't be any more wrong if you'd fallen into a swimming pool full of wrongness and swallowed the contents.

When PLEX was 300m odd isk it had 3 uses, character transfers, gametime and isk; fast forward to today and PLEX has multiple uses in addition to the original 3, these additional uses include multiple character training, resculpts, exchanging for AUR, tickets for real world events and HD fanfest streams. The price has increased mainly because of the utility that PLEX now has, and the increased demand that that utility causes.

Wrong again, while players do indeed set the price, CCP have influenced the price by increasing the utility of PLEX (see the above comment)

Yet they're utterly trivial to negate, you've already suggested one possible solution which is to drop corp, there's also rerolling your corp, moving to an out of the way area to avoid the aggressors (which is actually far easier to do now that the watchlist has been changed), allying with the aggressors other war targets and taking them on en masse, etc, etc. The problem with wardecs is far more social in nature than mechanical, although that said wardecs do need looking at, but not in the way that you probably think.

A Skiff is penalised in its main purpose to give survival abilities, some of the industrials can be fitted and used in ways that make them extremely hard to catch let alone kill, once again there is sacrifice involved in other areas such as cargo capacity. Freighters themselves can be fitted for an enormous tank while carrying an enormous amount of cargo, like most capitals they work best with a support fleet or escort; therein lies your e-war bonus.

imo its because we keep punishing the nullsec players and pampering the highsec players.

for example, every year concord gets buffed, with faster response, more ecm, etc.
gankers are forced to use more ships with bigger guns which kill the target faster
bears cry that ccp is somehow making it worse for them, since the gankers are killing them faster
ccp buffs concord again

other activities have vanished as well, like canflipping. it just doesnt exist anymore. I know, a lot of you will say "but that was horrible those meanies stole my ores!"
Right, well, thats why we're bleeding players. Because eve's player base was built on hardcore pvp players, because it was a hardcore pvp game. And now we're changing that, and the hardcore pvp players get disenfranchised and leave. And theres not many carebears coming in to replace them

You can find several threads where people demand we remove killmails completely, because they dont like the idea of ever having a record they lost something in the game. It tarnishes their "perfect run". We've got people flying deadspace fit golems in highsec who refuse to ever even consider trying nullsec. And if they ever lose that ship they'll likely quit the game forever.

Essentially, we're replacing pvp players with pve players. And tbh theres better games if you're interested only in pve.

*puts on flameresistent suit*

Mebbe cuz of new playerbase are generally douchy 12 year olds who P2W and try to ruin it for everyone?

Not a popular statement i know, but sometimes someone has to say it.

Then again, i'm just a grumpy ol' vet, so wth do i know...