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Optimal Range and Target Range questions!!!
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Rens Renoir Hastmena
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-12-20 17:15:12 UTC
Well I have search several threads about targeting and target range and all that!

I still haven't found the answer I'm looking for.

Here is the thing: I have used EveHQ and made a ship setup for one of my toons, this toon uses missiles, the setup has an “Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II” with a “Terror Javelin Assault Missile” as ammo, this is just an example, we could use others, but for the purpose in question this one will do. Now, in EveHQ it shows that I have “Optimal Range” of 31893,75m, that is taken into account all of my implants, did the manual implant thing!

So far so good, I go into the game and set my orbit at 31000 and notice that I hit but not that good, so I went with 28000 and YES I start getting the excellent hit messages, so I'm confused, is this an application error or am I doing something wrong?

Also, is there a way to see “In-Game” what your range is? I have tried to look everywhere and can't find it, even when in station on the fitting window, the info sown in it does not reflect your optimal range.

Please help! Thank you.
Mona X
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-12-20 17:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mona X
Rens Renoir Hastmena wrote:

So far so good, I go into the game and set my orbit at 31000 and notice that I hit but not that good, so I went with 28000 and YES I start getting the excellent hit messages, so I'm confused, is this an application error or am I doing something wrong?


Strange, missiles are supposed to not have issues with range. You either hit or don't.

Maybe you attacked larger or slower target? If you used target painter, it could not hit the target.

Rens Renoir Hastmena wrote:

Also, is there a way to see “In-Game” what your range is? I have tried to look everywhere and can't find it, even when in station on the fitting window, the info sown in it does not reflect your optimal range.


Flight time x velocity - 10%

I need new signature.
Jesus Rambo
Criterion.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#3 - 2011-12-20 17:51:43 UTC
Unless you're shooting a stationary target, it's gonna be moving around while the missiles are travelling to it. If it's moving around, the missiles are going to have to travel slightly further. Seems like the 897m between your orbit range and your actual missile range isn't enough to compensate for that.
Rens Renoir Hastmena
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-12-20 18:05:07 UTC
Mona X wrote:

Flight time x velocity - 10%



Thank you for that info, indeed EveHQ is correct, I ran the numbers and it came up with 31893,72, after that I applied your formula and taken 10% off wich gives me an optimal range of 28704, that seems correct.


Jesus Rambo wrote:
Unless you're shooting a stationary target, it's gonna be moving around while the missiles are travelling to it. If it's moving around, the missiles are going to have to travel slightly further. Seems like the 897m between your orbit range and your actual missile range isn't enough to compensate for that.



Indeed, I did notice this happens at times, however my primary mistake was to not knowing what my optimal range was in the first place.

Thank you guys.
Vessper
Dark Mason Society
#5 - 2011-12-20 18:10:23 UTC
Just for future info, you can configure the optimal range of missiles in EveHQ. Just head into the HQF options > Calculation Variables and change the Missile Range constant to something like 0.90.
Orlacc
#6 - 2011-12-20 18:52:18 UTC
Missiles don't have optimal range.

In the fitting screen, for guns you look at the MODULE info for optimal.

For missiles, you look at the CHARGE info for velocity and travel time etc.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Rens Renoir Hastmena
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-12-20 20:52:05 UTC
Vessper wrote:
Just for future info, you can configure the optimal range of missiles in EveHQ. Just head into the HQF options > Calculation Variables and change the Missile Range constant to something like 0.90.



Thank you Sir, that worked.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2011-12-20 22:10:17 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
Missiles don't have optimal range.


This. Using "optimal" with missiles is at best a misnomer because it's a very specific attribute of guns (which have two range variables, optimal and falloff, each of which plays a specific role in hit and damage formulas).

Missiles, on the other hand, have two range-related attributes, flight time and velocity. Multiplying the two together will give a theoretical maximum of how far from your launch point a missile will reach in absolute terms. This is double-confounded though. First, even if both you and your target are stationary, the missile will take a small amount of time to reach maximum velocity (they do accelerate quickly, but do not accelerate instantaneously). To measure this reach, simply move near your theoretical maximum range and lob off a volley. If it hits, move further away. If not, move closer.

The second confounding variable is target motion. Your maximum range less acceleration reduction is further reduced by the fact that your target is likely moving. If that motion is directly away from the origination point of your missiles, your effective range (that is, initial range from you to a target that will result in a hit) is greatly reduced. Conversely, if the target is approaching you, your effective range is greatly increased.

So there you have it.
Rens Renoir Hastmena
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-12-20 23:16:20 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
Missiles don't have optimal range.


This. Using "optimal" with missiles is at best a misnomer because it's a very specific attribute of guns (which have two range variables, optimal and falloff, each of which plays a specific role in hit and damage formulas).

Missiles, on the other hand, have two range-related attributes, flight time and velocity. Multiplying the two together will give a theoretical maximum of how far from your launch point a missile will reach in absolute terms. This is double-confounded though. First, even if both you and your target are stationary, the missile will take a small amount of time to reach maximum velocity (they do accelerate quickly, but do not accelerate instantaneously). To measure this reach, simply move near your theoretical maximum range and lob off a volley. If it hits, move further away. If not, move closer.

The second confounding variable is target motion. Your maximum range less acceleration reduction is further reduced by the fact that your target is likely moving. If that motion is directly away from the origination point of your missiles, your effective range (that is, initial range from you to a target that will result in a hit) is greatly reduced. Conversely, if the target is approaching you, your effective range is greatly increased.

So there you have it.



Fantastic stuff, thank you, I am working on this and with all the help I got here, and fast, I am sure I will manage.

Thank you all, don't understand ppl that say this is a bad forum, you guys are great.