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Trap for CODE: best tanked miner possible

Author
Darthon Zoh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-06-30 18:28:41 UTC
So looking for the absolute strongest tank in the game with the following in mind:

1) Can mine but mining ability is a distant secondary; primary is the strength of the tank.

2) The tank is designed to survive as long as possible against a well coordinated, very adaptable burst attack.

3) Speed is of no concern as we will be webbed and scrammed immediately; There are only two concerns: 1) Raw damage sponging ability and, to a much lesser degree (basically to the point of being no concern, 2) the ability to mine.

4) Cost effectiveness: No bling. This really only works if its much cheaper than whats used to destroy it. We want the most tankyness for the buck.

5) Assume all skills level 5.

This ship would ideally send a message to CODE or any would-be gankers in high-sec saying "fuk you scrubs, i'm mining here whether you like it or not and I DARE you to try and stop me." then raising the middle finger while pulling in the ore. The subtext is that it would cost much more to destroy the ship than its worth, and what it takes to destroy is ALOT, and the ship can just be (relatively) easily replaced.

I leave this to the best of you to solve. May the biggest e-peen win.
Roci Nantes
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-06-30 18:39:22 UTC
First thing, No ship is "un-gankable" and many of these corps have super deep pockets or are funded by someone who has deep pockets. Telling someone to F off you can't gank me, might end with them hunting you for fun.

MSE II
AIF II x2
EMWF II

DC II
ANP II

Medium CDFE I x 3

Over heated you are talking 110k ehp for around 55mil.. The number of ships it would take to pop it would cost more than your ship. Not by a lot

The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden
#3 - 2016-06-30 19:12:18 UTC
Code don't gank for profit, or to show profitable kill mails, or anything like that. They do it cos they are idiots. They make claims about generating content, or saving the game by making hi sec more interesting, or some other tripe, but they are basically just after easy kills. Reference their alliance tournament failure: they were given a challenge so they gave up. But on the subject of ganking you, they will try to prevent you mining just because they can and want to. As such, if you present them a tougher target, they will just bring more ships. You are basically just gimping your own game by not trying to make as much money as you like. Don't get me wrong, a well tanked procurer or skiff will delay a gank, but if they see you and think you're playing the game in a way they don't you to, they will come at you.

But don't even THINK about buying one of their stupid permits. We don't need to encourage these morons.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#4 - 2016-06-30 19:12:40 UTC
It's not really a trap for them if you're doing what they themselves recommend...Roll

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Darthon Zoh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-06-30 19:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthon Zoh
I've already figured out the best response to CODE which cuts through the bull they would have everyone thinking. I"ve also figured out how I want to personally respond to them. If they want to hunt me, or anyone else wants to, bring it on; it will likewise hurt them more than me.

This post was asking about ships to fit the bill; not discuss any of the above. So far, all the replies have failed in that regard except the first although even that seemed a bit of a weak tank.

Also, please spell-out names instead of using acronyms.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#6 - 2016-06-30 21:36:48 UTC
Darthon Zoh wrote:
Also, please spell-out names instead of using acronyms.


Admittedly, those are pretty odd acronyms.

Medium shield extender
Invulnerability field
EM ward field (known to most of the world as an EM shield hardener)

Damage control
Adaptive nano plating

Core defense field extender.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#7 - 2016-06-30 21:46:51 UTC
Darthon Zoh wrote:

Also, please spell-out names instead of using acronyms.




YMBFJ


Big smileBig smileLol

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#8 - 2016-07-01 00:13:28 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Darthon Zoh wrote:

Also, please spell-out names instead of using acronyms.




YMBFJ


Big smileBig smileLol


You're My Boy Friend Joe?
Maykid Achilles
No-Mercy
Eternal Requiem
#9 - 2016-07-01 01:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Maykid Achilles
You want something tanked? Something that can take a beating? And can dish out DPS to kill an average frigate or destroyer fairly easy if you have the drone skills.

[Skiff, Tank]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Thermal Dissipation Field II
Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5


This maybe over kill but if you are looking to mine and not be 'gankable' a Skiff is the way to go if you are looking for all skills at V
Stats on this is:

EHP: 78.7k
Drone DPS: 950 per volley

I've survived multiple ganks, including null-sec ganks.

Good luck,
Have fun!

-Maykid
Empire Raider
Spicy Onion Rings
#10 - 2016-07-01 02:21:25 UTC
Permit tanking is still the best tank. Stay CODE compliant, miner.
Dom Arkaral
Slavers Union
Safety.
#11 - 2016-07-01 02:24:54 UTC
I don't know if you know, but ship scanners are a thing Lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#12 - 2016-07-01 02:32:03 UTC
[Paladin, Straight]
Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Tracking Computer II,Tracking Speed Script

Bastion Module I

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Mega Pulse Laser II,Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II,Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II,Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II,Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x8
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#13 - 2016-07-01 04:07:42 UTC
[Procurer, The New CODE]
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

Thermal Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


About 40 mil in jita. 117k EHP. 155k EHP overheated. You dont have to omni tank CODE at least not the first time. They use catalyst most of the time. They get wise that you are specced to catalyst though and they will bring minmatar/amarr.

However, fighting them you will likely only encourage them, as it will be something new and entertaining to do. Its not about isk to them, so if they want to mess with you they will regardless of what kind of tank you have to fit on what ship.

Its better to just avoid them.
Darthon Zoh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2016-07-01 05:22:03 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
[Paladin, Straight]
Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Tracking Computer II,Tracking Speed Script

Bastion Module I

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Mega Pulse Laser II,Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II,Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II,Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II,Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x8


thanks, however this is too blingy. I'm not looking for something ungankable since, as had already been been pointed out despite being obvious, that is not possible. I am, however, look for something very very tanky that will really make them pay for trying to take it out and be much cheaper to buy than what they will need to buy to take it out.
Darthon Zoh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2016-07-01 05:27:11 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
[Procurer, The New CODE]
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

Thermal Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


About 40 mil in jita. 117k EHP. 155k EHP overheated. You dont have to omni tank CODE at least not the first time. They use catalyst most of the time. They get wise that you are specced to catalyst though and they will bring minmatar/amarr.

However, fighting them you will likely only encourage them, as it will be something new and entertaining to do. Its not about isk to them, so if they want to mess with you they will regardless of what kind of tank you have to fit on what ship.

Its better to just avoid them.


I'm going right for them; right in their front yard.

This fit, although good tank for the buck, falls short in two important ways. 1) Its a passive tank, yes? While I like the high EHP, and that is important, it lacks the burst tankyness I think will be all important in making them really have to put up alot in order to pop it. 2) All said and done, its a pretty small ship and would be fairly routine for them to pop. Despite its good tank for the buck, I'm looking for something with a more intimidating tank that would require them to actually think about how to take it down and then make a fleet special to do that while still maintaining really strong tank for the buck too.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#16 - 2016-07-01 06:04:05 UTC
Get your hands on a high sec Revelation:

[Revelation, veldnaught]
Capital Armor Repairer II
Capital Armor Repairer II
Capital Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermal Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Co-Processor II

Capital Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 3200
Capital Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 3200
Capital Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 3200
Cap Recharger II

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Siege Module II
[empty high slot]

Capital Processor Overclocking Unit II
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
[empty rig slot]

Tanks 25284 as long as cap boosters hold out. Presumably that's enough burst tank for you? 926,752 EHP to chew through on top of it. No bling, naturally, as requested.
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
Dreamweb Industries
#17 - 2016-07-01 09:58:08 UTC
Darthon Zoh wrote:
I'm going right for them; right in their front yard.

This fit, although good tank for the buck, falls short in two important ways. 1) Its a passive tank, yes? While I like the high EHP, and that is important, it lacks the burst tankyness I think will be all important in making them really have to put up alot in order to pop it. 2) All said and done, its a pretty small ship and would be fairly routine for them to pop. Despite its good tank for the buck, I'm looking for something with a more intimidating tank that would require them to actually think about how to take it down and then make a fleet special to do that while still maintaining really strong tank for the buck too.


I've been reading up on your research since yesterday. You seem to be falling into the same logical trap that many a highsec miner couldn't avoid: you have made an assumption, but somehow turned it into an undeniable dogma in your mind, so now you want the forums to validate your assumprion, regardless of whether it is true or not.

The truth here is: not only do the New Order and the Code not mind your tanking up your mining vessel - they encourage it. Hence, your act would be somewhat similar to demonstratively driving back and forth in front of a traffic control checkpoint while following all the driving rules: "Yeeeeah, you see that? I'm following the rules, so you won't ticket me! Fuk da poleec!"

Besides, the things you are asking for effectively contradict each other. I believe, it stems from your ignorance of some fundamental principles of highsec ganking. The Procurer is actually the king of tank among mining barges. While outmatched by the Skiff in terms of EHP, it is roughly 10 times cheaper than its T2 counterpart. Besides, 115 thousand EHP is by no means a "routine" thing to pop - 10 T2 Catalysts at the very least - which means that destroying a fully tanked Proc will take 5 times as much resources as one needs to fit the said Proc (and I'm not even taking the miner's insurance payout into account).

However, you are, indeed, correct in assuming that a cheap and tanky vessel is an extremely unattractive target for gankers. The Procurer is arguably the least ganked mining barge in highsec - which is fine for us, given the downsides of this line of barges in terms of yield and the amount of time between ore refills. To atrract a decently sized gank fleet, you will have to commit something which could potentially give some good loot or an expensive killmail. Simply put, the bling you don't want to use is required. Otherwise, a 10-man ganking fleet will just find a less Code-compliant citizen to enforce the Code upon instead of paying you the attention you crave.

Finally, the passive tank vs. the active tank issue. Given the nature of suicide ganking, the gank fleet can't just disengage from the gank and return to the station safely. If we haven't managed to get through, our ships are wasted. Hence, every commander of a fleet that large will double-check the target's tank before undocking. They use EFT, too, so, if you have a very strong active tank, they'll take that into account as well. And it is always cheaper to fit a great passive tank than a great active tank, and the latter will never do without the former anyway. With CONCORD serving as a buffer, favouring active tank over passive is a complete waste: you go active when you want to sustain damage for prolonged periods of time, while the longest gank possible only lasts 25 seconds.

If you want to set a trap, try placing your mining barge near an Orca of yours and pulling a tanky combat ship after the gankers have started shooting at you. Alternatively, you can place a cloaked Falcon near your barge and jam the unsuspecting attackers. But, again, there's no guarantee that the fleet doesn't have the contingency plan for these scenarios.

So I will agree with those here saying that your best tank is the mining permit tank and a grain of common sense tank.

Fly compliant o7

Agent of the New Order

Live by the Code - die by the Code.

The Voice of Highsec

The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden
#18 - 2016-07-01 11:36:42 UTC
See? Now look what you did!

Although, this particular moron wasn't actually being too moronic. He says use a procurer. Every other sensible suggestion has been use a procurer. Use a damn procurer. Or do something more interesting.

But I repeat: don't ever buy a permit. Code are nearly as bad as marmite and p i r a t for given pvp a bad name.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#19 - 2016-07-01 12:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
Darthon Zoh wrote:
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
[Procurer, The New CODE]
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

Thermal Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


About 40 mil in jita. 117k EHP. 155k EHP overheated. You dont have to omni tank CODE at least not the first time. They use catalyst most of the time. They get wise that you are specced to catalyst though and they will bring minmatar/amarr.

However, fighting them you will likely only encourage them, as it will be something new and entertaining to do. Its not about isk to them, so if they want to mess with you they will regardless of what kind of tank you have to fit on what ship.

Its better to just avoid them.


I'm going right for them; right in their front yard.

This fit, although good tank for the buck, falls short in two important ways. 1) Its a passive tank, yes? While I like the high EHP, and that is important, it lacks the burst tankyness I think will be all important in making them really have to put up alot in order to pop it. 2) All said and done, its a pretty small ship and would be fairly routine for them to pop. Despite its good tank for the buck, I'm looking for something with a more intimidating tank that would require them to actually think about how to take it down and then make a fleet special to do that while still maintaining really strong tank for the buck too.



This is why you should NOT mess with CODE. They understand pvp mechanics and you do not. You are at a severe disadvantage.

First its not a passive tank, its a buffer tank which is probably the most popular( or was until ancillary reppers came out) pvp tank. Two, having a burst tank does you no good. All they have to do is break your tank, which can easily be done with overwhelming DPS. Your going to need to tank a couple of thousand DPS on a smaller ship at bare minimum for 10-20 seconds at least. and if you bring a big one, your going to need tank even more because they will just bring more people.

Your entire goal is to last longer than the assault on your tank, which a burst tank will not do since your going to receive massive alpha damage. The best tank is a buffer tank. It will allow you to last the longest. and you only have to last long enough for concord to show up and start popping them( though you could use drones to pop them as well).

Also posting in the forums and then putting "CODE" in the thread title you already alerted them to your intentions, Not that other people have tried similar things to you already.


As i said the best way to deal with code is to avoid them. Sometimes the only way to win, is to refuse to play.

You could just join a null alliance and go to null and mine, Better ore, free boosters, and the only thing you have to watch is your ore hold and intel channel. Or if your dead set on revenge, just get some miner buddies together, wardec code and attempt to properly fight them. At least then it would entertaining for both sides.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2016-07-01 13:19:06 UTC
get an alt and sit in a 0 isk venture with a max tanked hauler sat next to it... more tank in that than any mining ship....

No Worries

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