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valve sued over iligal gambleing... is ccp next with iwantisk?

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Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-06-25 23:05:57 UTC
King Aires wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
Quote:
These can be traded outside the game for cash.



We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference.



The hell you can't

ISK -> Plex -> Game Time ($$$)
ISK -> Plex -> Fan Fest Tickets ($$$)
ISK -> Plex -> Transfer Fees ($$$)

And the list goes on and on.

Just because CCP isn't running an ATM doesn't mean you can't get cash considerations out of isk, and in some cases nearly directly.



CCP cracks down on people trading ingame assets for RL cash though. They also do not provide a means of turning ISK into cash or credit.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2016-06-26 02:24:20 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
King Aires wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
Quote:
These can be traded outside the game for cash.



We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference.



The hell you can't

ISK -> Plex -> Game Time ($$$)
ISK -> Plex -> Fan Fest Tickets ($$$)
ISK -> Plex -> Transfer Fees ($$$)

And the list goes on and on.

Just because CCP isn't running an ATM doesn't mean you can't get cash considerations out of isk, and in some cases nearly directly.



CCP cracks down on people trading ingame assets for RL cash though. They also do not provide a means of turning ISK into cash or credit.



That is like saying the escort you went to visit didn't take your cash for sex, you just paid for her time.

Considerations for free that you otherwise would have paid cash for is no different than IRL value.
The Judge
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2016-06-26 07:34:21 UTC
I would be incredibly surprised if there was a lawyer out there that would think it was viable to go after IWI or CCP. The only parallel you can draw between IWI and "skin betting" is the act of gambling itself. IWI don't offer you any option to cash out for real world dollars, and neither does CCP. However, steam and certain skin betting sites do offer this option in one way or another. This is where the issue of legality is, and is what the whole case against Valve rests on.

The difference here is people using skins as chips with a equitable real world dollar cash out value. Gambling away your isk (even if converted by buying plex) is not even close to being on the same level of moral or real world legality. Let's put away the pitchforks now, shall we?

Insert "why will nobody think of the children" comment here.

CSM XII Member and CSM XI Permanent Attendee

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Mr Duffo
SQUIDS.
#24 - 2016-06-26 07:58:35 UTC
kukkahattuäiti

Skeggǫld, Skálmǫld, Skildir ro Klofnir!

Never forget! #OICXmassacre2014
ISD Buldath
#25 - 2016-06-26 07:59:16 UTC
I'm probably going to regret this, as this thread is in partial violation of EULA rule 22. Quoted below

Quote:
22. Posting regarding RMT (Real Money Trading) is prohibited.

Posts discussing, linking to, or advertising RMT, including but not limited to the sale of in game items, assets, currency, characters or game accounts for real life money are strictly prohibited.


However, as this is a edge case, I will keep an eye on it and watch for any issues that come up.

Please do not give me the chance to regret this decision.

~ISD Buldath

Instructor King of the Forums! Knight of the General Discussion

Support, Training and Resources Division

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE-Mails regarding forum moderation.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#26 - 2016-06-26 09:05:39 UTC
I never understand people who say gambling destroys lives thus should be illegal. Alcohol does exact same yet thats OK. If gambling destroyed ones life then tough luck, learn from it. But why should person who gamble perhaps once a year for fun and thrills be punished for that. As for that article goes, it sounds more like angry form whiner who seeking refund for his CS:GO skins loss.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#27 - 2016-06-26 10:59:18 UTC
I gamble extensively with ISK, and had serious RL gambling addiction before (just wrote a forum post about it actually). Yet I do not think gambling should be 'illegale'. It's my money and my foolish loss and my addiction, let it be that way. People should have freedom to ruin themselves, if it's their choice or if they are stupid enough/weak willed enough to do so.

Most of my life I have been addicted to one thing or other, or combination of things, both legal and illegal. I had some incredible highs and life ruining moments. But at the end lf the day, it was my life and my choices and my weakness and no one fault but mine when things went wrong, and it was also to my credit I sorted myself out in the end.

I have spent parts of my life in some extremely 'nanny state', and also in some pretty chilled n dodgy places. I know which one I prefer.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#28 - 2016-06-26 12:08:56 UTC
Demica Diaz wrote:
If gambling destroyed ones life then tough luck, learn from it..


That's not how that works.
There's real sensible reasons adolescents aren't allowed to drink or gamble.
Gambling is a cancer, gamblers do not learn from losses, ever.
Once a big sucker bet programmes you to think gambling is good you are hooked.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#29 - 2016-06-26 13:33:21 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
[quote=Demica Diaz]
Once a big sucker bet programmes you to think gambling is good you are hooked.




Like the first euphoric high from ecstasy/MDMA. It gets tatooed into your memory and you can never forget that again, and yet very hard to re-experience again.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#30 - 2016-06-26 20:32:41 UTC
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:
The kid that actualy held the knife was judged and sentenced for assault. As should.
For the others, especially the one 'only' waiting in-game to snatch the (forced) drop, theft had to be proven. Hence the judges decision.

They could not get him for conspiracy to commit assault?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Gibbeous Moon
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#31 - 2016-07-03 21:15:56 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Demica Diaz wrote:
If gambling destroyed ones life then tough luck, learn from it..


That's not how that works.
There's real sensible reasons adolescents aren't allowed to drink or gamble.
Gambling is a cancer, gamblers do not learn from losses, ever.
Once a big sucker bet programmes you to think gambling is good you are hooked.




Rot. In my circle, all of whom are professional gamblers, we would argue otherwise.

If you don't understand basic probability then you shouldn't be in the game whichever it is. I've been involved with gambling for nearly 20 years and I don't see it as a cancer but an application of mathematics.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#32 - 2016-07-06 16:00:16 UTC
Gibbeous Moon wrote:

Rot. In my circle, all of whom are professional gamblers, we would argue otherwise.

If you don't understand basic probability then you shouldn't be in the game whichever it is. I've been involved with gambling for nearly 20 years and I don't see it as a cancer but an application of mathematics.


Lol but that's like saying being successful in finance/business is easy you just need to understand the market. ;)

If you are a seasoned/or even a pro gambler, you certainly have a lot of qualities, talents, experience and personality traits that click to make it work for you. Just understanding the nature of gaming is not good enough. it takes certain traits/qualities/mental strength to gamble consistently for long time without going FUBAR both financially and mentally.

If you can do it, then that's because you have aptitude/experience for it, which general public don't have.

It's a bit like drugs. Experienced heads can handle themselves ok and have good time. People who are not right for it could get into serious mess.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#33 - 2016-07-06 16:16:02 UTC
Toobo wrote:
It's a bit like drugs. Experienced heads can handle themselves ok and have good time. People who are not right for it could get into serious mess.

You know...long term I'm not sure anybody can "handle" their drugs as well as you think... The effects tend to add up cumulatively over time...

Might still be a good analogy with gambling - there may be cumulative effects over time even if you are a professional...but yeah...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Gibbeous Moon
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#34 - 2016-07-06 18:59:20 UTC
Toobo wrote:


If you are a seasoned/or even a pro gambler, you certainly have a lot of qualities, talents, experience and personality traits that click to make it work for you. Just understanding the nature of gaming is not good enough. it takes certain traits/qualities/mental strength to gamble consistently for long time without going FUBAR both financially and mentally.

If you can do it, then that's because you have aptitude/experience for it, which general public don't have.

It's a bit like drugs. Experienced heads can handle themselves ok and have good time. People who are not right for it could get into serious mess.



So what you are saying is Ban Everything. Because some people aren't good at it.

And that includes banning all Risk including insurance as the insurance companies are playing bookmaker laying against the event that you won't have that car crash, that your house catches fire or that you don't die before you're fiftty-five.

And, no. It's nothing like drugs whatsoever.

One is a sensible and reasoned activity. Drug taking isn't.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#35 - 2016-07-06 22:24:55 UTC
Perhaps I used a wrong analogy, just because these two things are addictions that I am very familiar with personally :p

I do not propose ban everything ar all - my earlier post here clearly says I believe people shpuld have freedom to do what they want, even if it is something that could harm themselves (as long as it stays to themselves)

Gambling/drugs can ruin people's lives, but it's their choice and their lives and their risk - this is what I said before.

I'm only saying that gambling (although not equal to drugs) have great potential and tendency to ruin your life. People shoild still be allowed to do ot, but should be fully aware pf the risk, and it certainly isn't for everyone. I have always been pro-legalisation of such things.

But I would not recommend such activities to everyone. You really need to know what you are doing and have the right aptitude and qualties for it.

So in summary - no I'm not for banning such things, but I would not recommend it or make it sound like it's something anyone can enjoy casually.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#36 - 2016-07-06 22:40:43 UTC
Kinda bad to keep linking them together when I already admitted it as wrong analogy, but just one more thing to say

1. Yes, I completely agree that most gambling is a reasoned activity, because the odds are known and you can calculate the probability and the risk and everything. You cannot control win or lose, but you can manage your risk based on logical calculations

2. Drugs tend to be the opposite. In most countries and in most times you do not know what's in them. But if you actually do know how somehing was made and exactly what's in them, and know your own body and reactions, theoretically you can make evaluations on what may happen. A 'clean' drug where the manufacture process and the ingredients and all its qualties are known, can be taken 'reasonably' much like most of other prescription drugs that are controlled

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Moustache Cuir
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2016-07-08 11:34:39 UTC
I used to be a heavy smoker ... Now I vape (I want a cigarillo BAD tho T_T)

Perhaps gambling in eve could be just like vaping for some players... A way to "tame" your addiction while heavily lowering / nullifying the risks.

Find a way to make big ISK -> gamble all of your profit -> don't profit but don't lose the roof you have over your head either.


I don't gamble but I don't see what the problem is... Since it's not CCP that implements those mechanics into the game they can't be sued for it.
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