Science & Industry

This isn't directly related to barges, but impacts them none the less.

Without details on mechanics, on grid boosting has a high chance of being an issue with miners. If it requires constant presence then, beyond the obvious rorq issue, medium to large fleets in HS would need multiple Orcas or just go without boosting.

So my vote would be to remove mining boosting all together. Give all barges a 70% yield boost, refund sp and isk, and make rorq and orca both drone mining ships.

Since most of these items are already on the list for fall changes, it's a possibility.

New mining methods. I know, that CCP pepares ship rebalance, but I would also love some totaly new options for miners implemented. So those, who mine at keyboard will benefit from active mining and those, who mine AFK, will still have what they have now.

You spend most of your time in a heavily ganked ice system, of course you only see Skiffs and Procurers where you currently operate.

PS Pity that Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher did not drop

The skiff really is overpowered.

Of course it has massively better tank (and the ability to fit that). But it also has: extra low slot for a third MLU, bigger drone bay, easier time with cap due to more cap AND only 1 laser, big enough hold that even the best miners with great boosts can't overflow the hold before they can jet a new can even if they are using mining drones too, cheapest build cost.

Mackinaw? Fraction of the tank of the skiff, only two low slots, half the drone bay, higher crystal consumption, worse cap, harder to fit... all for a big ore hold. The hold is convenient for players who only run 1-2 accounts and who pay attention, but it doesn't even help "afk miners" because in high sec you'll kill your two asteroids in only a few minutes anyway so you need to pay attention to pick new asteroids, and it doesn't help low/null miners because AFK = death even in quiet corners of null (whether due to rats or players).

Hulk? At first blush it looks like you're getting a wet paper bag that can mine a ton more than a skiff. But if you consider the 2 low slots and the fact that you really need to be specific with how you mine to avoid losing ore to cycles that finish when your hold is too full (no hugging asteroids and using drones and letting an MTU collect cans), the yield really isn't much higher than a skiff at all. And for that like 10% higher yield you also have like 1/10 the tank, more than 3x the crystal consumption, terrible cap, tight fit for the minimal tank you can get on it, a smaller drone bay, highest build cost, etc?

Skiff is great all the time. Mack is only worth using for a guy with 1-2 accounts who doesn't AFK. Hulk is only worth using if you don't have boosts or if you are boxing enough/in a fleet op so that you have a dedicated hauler, you don't want to use mining drones, and you have other ships around to protect you from rats.


Although if rorqs are suddenly in belts all the time, hulks will probably become a lot better because they'll be able to catch RR support and help killing rats from the rorq, and the rorq can use a tractor beam to pull in full cans instead of an MTU that grabs them before the hulk is ready to give it up... so hulks will be able to travel from roid to roid to use drones and still not overflow their cargo.

Mackinaw and skiff will benefit less or not at all really, from rorqs being in belts though, as far as I can see it.

Sounds you have not mined in null very often.

Mackinaw has three lows and with two processor rigs you can fit three mining upgrades, T2 strips and some tank. In case BS sized belt rats show up the Mackinaw that gets the initial aggro will probably have to warp off, while the other miners kill the rats.

Roids are huge in nullsec anomalies so you won't have to switch roids until it is time to squadwarp back to the compressor array. Mackinaws are really convenient.

Unfortunately I'm not mining in a quiet dead-end, because that would provide more opportunity to break out the Hulk.

This is more like it, those two ships have the tank of a soggy paper bag and should be adjusted to a better level, they are T2 ships and should be better than what they are now.

This is actually true. I do consider the lack of anything other than Skiffs and Procurers in the Kino vicinity to be directly my fault. Anything else is at risk and it is the source of great amusement to me when the local miners say I have no effect on them as they skiff about. But I've been in other systems too as I've chased wartargets who have scattered to the four winds (are there winds in Eve? Maybe I need a better phrasing). And I see lots of skiffs everywhere I go. Admittedly anecdotal evidence.

CCP knows though if skiffs are overly popular. If there are systems somewhere in highsec where the old Mack herds graze as they used to, or where a Retriever doesn't have a half life of about six hours, then CCP knows and will adjust based on the big picture. If I'm right and skiffs outnumber the other options disproportionately then we should expect a nerf. This is how online games work. Always trying to find a balance.

Its like the recent nerf to freighter bumping. Too many freighters were dying to New Order fleets, in CCP's estimation, so they gave the pilots a get out of jail free button. Since they are carebears they made it so they didn't even have to push it themselves. Freighter ganking has moderated. Success! Now the skiffs may get their turn.

I little believe that CCP will read my well thought out arguments for a skiff nerf and decide, based on that, that mining ships with battleship tanks are unbalanced. If skiffs are changed to be less tanky out of the box, or if their yield takes a tweak downward, it will be because of the decisions of hundreds of highsec miners who have, once again, decided to remove themselves from interaction with other players. If CCP still wants Eve to be an interactive game of player versus player, then skiffs MUST explode more. That's what I continue to expect even if its taken far too long.

I get that very same feeling :/

So you're *still* whining about people taking effective countermeasures to your actions, and you still want CCP to nerf the Skiff so that you can gank without effort.

Tough. You created this. Live with it.

What I'm doing is seeing if the claims that the large number of skiffs I'm seeing is a direct result of my, or other New Order Agents, presence in our habitual haunts. My evidence is anecdotal but I really did travel to multiple ice systems across highsec last night. I did see a lone Retriever in one system and two in another. So it wasn't completely skiffs. But they WAY outnumber the alternatives. Huge skiff fleets stripping the ice fields.

I know its hard to distinguish but I'm not so much calling for a nerf to skiffs, despite the attempts at humor where I admit I DID call for nerfs. I don't know how CCP decides what to do but I'm pretty sure its not based on forum posts from those of us who inhabit them. If CCP leaves them tanked up so much then I will just deal with it as other mechanisms allow. Personally, I'd rather argue for a return of the Watch List and locking players into wardecced corps as it would benefit me more than less tanky skiffs. This thread was a discussion of what we THOUGHT might happen in the mining rebalance. My point is that the trinity of mining ships is broken and I THINK CCP knows it and will do something to rebalance the situation. Time, as always, will tell. If they do cut the tank or lower the yield please give me the credit for the idea, OK, see? That was humor again.

Honest viewers of the situation will admit that skiffs are overrepresented in highsec versus other platforms. We may certainly disagree on the significance of this and what, if any, adjustments are warrented. I'm just looking for the truth of this particular point in my explorations. CCP knows for sure what I can only view one system at a time.

I think there will be a nerf of some kind to skiffs. (Fingers crossed!)