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Dev Blog: Bidding Farewell to the In-game Browser

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#121 - 2016-06-20 21:01:01 UTC
Airi Cho wrote:
maybe it was bad that all that information was available ingame in first place.

because flying around hundreds of jumps or having to log in dozens of alts to check prices in various regions in order to ensure competitiveness in null sec markets and not having to overcharge people too much sounds like a great idea.

Seriously, sometimes I wonder whether some people unplug their brains when they enter certain forum sections or certain conversations.

Furthermore, my question from above still stand: Steam Overlay is garbage, Evolve does not work, Overwolf is inadequate (I just found out that the Overwolf browser does not keep .net addresses like evemaps.dotlan.net stored in the urlbar auto completion feature). Any other suggestions besides Window Mode + Firefox to compensate for CCP's incapability to maintain the IGB or how to get a properly working overlay browser that has bookmarks for starters?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Brain Gehirn
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#122 - 2016-06-20 21:03:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Brain Gehirn
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Brain Gehirn wrote:
My suggestion:
Get over it and use your normal browser.
IGB was a thing to help not a thing for you to stop living if it goes away.

I suggest you take your nick name a bit more serious and use the second part of it more. Using an OOGB is not exactly a great option because it requires me to either use window mode, which is a lot more performance hungry than full screen, or requires me to alt-tab out of the game constantly to check thing, which means I cannot check things ingame and run the risk of not getting info necessary to survive in Null (like neutrals entering my system). Furthermore, I use market sites for EVE every day and sometimes hundreds of times to check prices and determine where to buy things. Doing this with alt-tabbing is excruciating and with window mode not really convenient either because my OOGB is not placed like the IGB and moving these windows around just to compensate for laziness sounds like a great option.

Using the IGB is in fact a thing that keeps me living in EVE, as ironic as it may sound. Roll

I also do not see at all how the IGB is a burden for any developer. As a developer, you do not need to develop your app for the IGB, you can already develop standalone apps with CREST that do not rely on the IGB. If you develop for the IGB regardless, it's entirely your fault. Now go back to Saranen and do something useful.



You can resize windows and put then in front of your game.
I have been doing this for like.. a couple of years? and never ever had any issues. Unless you are REALLY lazy you can survive without the IGB. SURE, it can help a lot.. but nothing that you can't do.
Also, unless you have a REALLY bad computer, windowed mode is the same as the fullscreen mode (I run windowed since 2006 tbh).

"you do not need to develop your app for the IGB"
Well.. you are kinda wrong. Every EVE website needs to support the old IGB in some way, even if you don't rely on any feature that it has. Why? Css/JS issues all around if you don't use old things too.
jQuery for example you need the 1.11 version to be ok.... but the actual jQuery version is 3.0. So every website that wants to be able to get some views and work ingame needs to support old things, avoid new libs and so on...

Now go back to ratting. <3
Sir Constantin
#123 - 2016-06-20 21:03:59 UTC
Overwolf is good for google, twitter, facebook, imgur..

Beside that you can't do anything, dotlan, trippwire and other eve related tools wont work. So yeah, thanks for improving the game and our in-game experience.
Current Habit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2016-06-20 21:08:46 UTC
Looks like the only devblog CCP are releasing lately are either the announcement of feature-removements or replacing features with useless stuff they unsuccessfully tried to rip off from WoW.

And they wonder why people stop playing .. lmao.
Colonel Frost
Snatch Squad
#125 - 2016-06-20 21:12:10 UTC
If you break Siggy, that will be very, very bad. Siggy is a sine qua non for wormholing. If it doesn't automatically populate the destination, track the jump mass or show the location of group members, it's nerfed to the point of uselessness.

It's bad enough for WHers that you killed off C5 farming with the Citadel expansion. Farming those sites was fun, and it carried a risk commensurate with the reward. Now we have to "farm" C5s by rolling them - which involves much more risk and takes much more time for much less reward.

The loss of Siggy will make wormhole space unplayable. It will be insult to injury.

Please rethink this decision.
Alan Greenspud
State War Academy
Caldari State
#126 - 2016-06-20 21:12:54 UTC
Another one bites the dust!

Took them years to build this community, and CCP can destroy it in a matter of days.

+1 CCP
-10k to Tranquility player count!
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#127 - 2016-06-20 21:14:24 UTC
Sheeana Harb wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Sheeana Harb wrote:
I will be very frank here:

The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.

I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away.


This food sucks.

VS

Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :)

Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?


No reason to be this passive-aggesive, my feedback was frank not out of malice, but to save you time reading through it while getting my point across.

I use (amongst other things) IGB to check KOS status of neutral pilots in nullsec, to view items on the market and their trends (via 3rd party, can't name it now, I'm away from home) and to view my alliance's forums.
The biggest advantage of the IGB is that it stays withing the game client, so I can use the IGB while being able to play EVE and not needing to tab out or obscure the game's interface in other ways.


And in what way is an overlay not acceptable? It can blend into the UI almost as well as the IGB.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#128 - 2016-06-20 21:16:17 UTC
Axhind wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Dominous Nolen wrote:
RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)



There is a new CREST resource for tracking a characters location which means that can be done from outside the client and no need for the IGB, :D


Except that it doesn't actually work most of the time while IGB tracking does. If CREST would actually work reliably instead of on paper it would be less bad that IGB is going away.

But even then it's going to be bad unless there is a way to link to in game fittings and similar that is very convenient with IGB right now.


Would love more details about when CREST is unreliable. The location tracking has been rock solid for me since we fixed the last few defects with it. Been using it in combination with Pathfinder (the WH mapping software) for a while now with no problem.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#129 - 2016-06-20 21:17:12 UTC
Blacksmoke16 wrote:
@CCP FoxFour

2 things:

href: 'https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/inventory/types/0/' - should the 0 be the typeID you want, or should it actually be 0?

Also my post request keeps returning this error when using the body format in your post. Is there a specific header i need to include?

POST https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/characters/2047918291/ui/openwindow/marketdetails/ 415 (UNSUPPORTED MEDIA TYPE)


If you look at the body of the response it should help indicate what is wrong. The ID in the URL actually doesn't matter... quark with the CREST framework.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#130 - 2016-06-20 21:20:07 UTC
Feodor Mihailovici wrote:
I haven't had the patience to search through the forum for this particular issue, so I am writing it below:

If you remove IGB you are practically kicking in the nuts all the serious Incursion-running communities (see WTM's WL Manager site which is being used by hundreds of people daily). That thing has a login token and notification system possible only through the IGB.

Another thing important to me and probably to other traders, my "view market details" is actually "open IGB" , bc my homepage is set to eve-central.com and I am able to check the real price of any item (while having a separate tab opened with the incursion waitlist).

You say you want to make our experience better ... then don't remove an old but valuable tool from the game. I am not even getting into breaking the immersion by having to use overlays or alt-tab, this is also an issue, but smaller than the above.


Incursion communities are already starting to adopt the new fleet API in CREST and build awesome tools around that. I have seen some of the stuff they are building and it will result in a much better experience for everyone.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#131 - 2016-06-20 21:20:51 UTC
Colonel Frost wrote:
If you break Siggy, that will be very, very bad. Siggy is a sine qua non for wormholing. If it doesn't automatically populate the destination, track the jump mass or show the location of group members, it's nerfed to the point of uselessness.

It's bad enough for WHers that you killed off C5 farming with the Citadel expansion. Farming those sites was fun, and it carried a risk commensurate with the reward. Now we have to "farm" C5s by rolling them - which involves much more risk and takes much more time for much less reward.

The loss of Siggy will make wormhole space unplayable. It will be insult to injury.

Please rethink this decision.


Siggy just needs to update to use the CREST way of tracking and they will be fine. If they choose not to, well good thing there are other WH mapping choices out there.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2016-06-20 21:21:31 UTC
Now cracks a noble heart. Goodnight, sweet prince;
And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.


o7 IGB thank you for your many years of service
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#133 - 2016-06-20 21:32:20 UTC
The IGB needed to go. When our corp had more ppl, only about half had the IGB working *at all*. Ironically it worked more reliably for me under wine!

It is old, the javascript was a fossil, it is not compliant with anything modern anymore. Seriously look at the size of the firefox/mozila team and then you think CCP should be a browser company? Really? You said that out loud and thought it made sense? It makes less sense than a Wookie on Endor!

As for the droves of people this quite small thread claims will leave with this change (they won't, in fact most people wont notice at all). Can i have your stuff?

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Feodor Mihailovici
Mare Anguis
#134 - 2016-06-20 21:45:15 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Feodor Mihailovici wrote:
I haven't had the patience to search through the forum for this particular issue, so I am writing it below:

If you remove IGB you are practically kicking in the nuts all the serious Incursion-running communities (see WTM's WL Manager site which is being used by hundreds of people daily). That thing has a login token and notification system possible only through the IGB.

Another thing important to me and probably to other traders, my "view market details" is actually "open IGB" , bc my homepage is set to eve-central.com and I am able to check the real price of any item (while having a separate tab opened with the incursion waitlist).

You say you want to make our experience better ... then don't remove an old but valuable tool from the game. I am not even getting into breaking the immersion by having to use overlays or alt-tab, this is also an issue, but smaller than the above.


Incursion communities are already starting to adopt the new fleet API in CREST and build awesome tools around that. I have seen some of the stuff they are building and it will result in a much better experience for everyone.


I know that part of the backend is CREST. But, having to alt-tab every x minutes to check the waitlist, having to alt-tab every time I want to check a market price, dotlan, etc. .... radically breaks the immersion and actually hinders the player, it does not help him/her in any way. Consider adding something like "IE Tab" into the Eve client, a wrapper to a browser of some sort ... that should help keep things integrated.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#135 - 2016-06-20 21:45:52 UTC
Dex Cordell wrote:
Dominous Nolen wrote:
RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)



sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar.
@CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole.


Based on ever patch in the last year, CCP dont care about wormholes. Because only that nullsec drama brings in the dollars.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#136 - 2016-06-20 21:47:41 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
overlay

Are you shipping overlay thingy in your installation package?
Sarmatiko
#137 - 2016-06-20 21:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Been using Overwolf myself for the past few months without an issue. Care to give it a try?

Trying it now on Sisi and I wonder - "Opening link in Overwolf browser" feature currently works with EVE or not?
Because when I'm trying to open link on current build it opens in my default browser anyway and not in overlay.
Working as intended?

Anyway, I understand why you removing this antic Awesomium abomination and I support this. But is there at least small chance that we will get pure integrated browser (Chromium) sometime in near future?
Have someone seriously evaluated how IGB currently affects new players experience in EVE with all those guide links, cheatsheet images and fittings? "Welcome to EVE Newbro! Now please install 3rd party overlay browser so we could properly help you without alt+tabbing every minute."
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#138 - 2016-06-20 21:50:20 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Axhind wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Dominous Nolen wrote:
RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)



There is a new CREST resource for tracking a characters location which means that can be done from outside the client and no need for the IGB, :D


Except that it doesn't actually work most of the time while IGB tracking does. If CREST would actually work reliably instead of on paper it would be less bad that IGB is going away.

But even then it's going to be bad unless there is a way to link to in game fittings and similar that is very convenient with IGB right now.


Would love more details about when CREST is unreliable. The location tracking has been rock solid for me since we fixed the last few defects with it. Been using it in combination with Pathfinder (the WH mapping software) for a while now with no problem.


I've been trying to use it with pathfinder and on Friday (2016-06-17) it worked for a bit with regular reloads of the pathfinder, but since then it doesn't work at all. IGB version has worked perfectly every time.

Not sure what it is (I'm just a user) but with that level of functionality it's basically non-existing functionality. If you can give me some advice on how to troubleshoot the issue I can help out with it.
Seynix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#139 - 2016-06-20 21:51:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Seynix
I never used the IGB anyway, it looked like a huge security risk so I just alt tabbed or had another window open if I needed to check something. I never experienced any performance hits by having Eve in windowed mode on any of my systems either. I hope dropping it lets the devs focus on more important things, like the actual game.

Sucks for the people that relied on it, but securing systems and having a better game is more important IMO.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#140 - 2016-06-20 21:52:20 UTC
Colonel Frost wrote:
If you break Siggy, that will be very, very bad. Siggy is a sine qua non for wormholing. If it doesn't automatically populate the destination, track the jump mass or show the location of group members, it's nerfed to the point of uselessness.

It's bad enough for WHers that you killed off C5 farming with the Citadel expansion. Farming those sites was fun, and it carried a risk commensurate with the reward. Now we have to "farm" C5s by rolling them - which involves much more risk and takes much more time for much less reward.

The loss of Siggy will make wormhole space unplayable. It will be insult to injury.

Please rethink this decision.



And other tools. We use Vippy.

And a number of our pilots use the IGB to map because they dont have second monitors.
Having to alt tab to update sigs is ridiculous, you miss so much.

CCP, reallocate your funding and cycle your lead developers. Funding VR only pay2win niche games is not the way to make cash, making a good game what you have already established for years better is the way to go. If you keep pulling features like this you are only going to make it awful for older players too, and keep in mind your new player retention is ****.