These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Bidding Farewell to the In-game Browser

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#341 - 2016-07-01 20:39:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Bumblefck
ISD Decoy wrote:
I have removed an offensive post. Please keep it civil and within the rules! Lol



Perhaps you could police your rude ex-colleague's responses, too?

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Burn Monroe
La Explorers
#342 - 2016-07-02 05:33:35 UTC
I understand the desire to remove the in game browser. I'm sure it's huge amounts of work to maintain. But, I'm very concerned that this will significantly disrupt WH life.

Right now, WH residents use things like siggy or tripwire with the IGB. So, when you want to come back from HS, you just right click the system closest to your WH, from the WH mapping software, and select "Set destination". I know that CREST allows for this as well, but what if the person has multiple characters on different accounts? How is that going to be accommodated? Mainly this will be a problem because even if the WH mapping tool allowed logging into two accounts with CREST, you'd have to log out of one to login with the other. And I'm guessing that would then invalidate your original CREST login, no?

I think the easiest way is to give your main account approval to be the authorizer for your other accounts. Then, when you login, CREST should tell the client all the accounts that have been authorized. This would allow WH mapping software to use two different browser windows for different characters.

Either way, WH mapping software is definitely going to be VERY clunky from this point forward.

So, I'm curious how this issue will be resolved?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#343 - 2016-07-02 23:36:06 UTC
Burn Monroe wrote:
I understand the desire to remove the in game browser. I'm sure it's huge amounts of work to maintain. But, I'm very concerned that this will significantly disrupt WH life.

Right now, WH residents use things like siggy or tripwire with the IGB. So, when you want to come back from HS, you just right click the system closest to your WH, from the WH mapping software, and select "Set destination". I know that CREST allows for this as well, but what if the person has multiple characters on different accounts? How is that going to be accommodated? Mainly this will be a problem because even if the WH mapping tool allowed logging into two accounts with CREST, you'd have to log out of one to login with the other. And I'm guessing that would then invalidate your original CREST login, no?

I think the easiest way is to give your main account approval to be the authorizer for your other accounts. Then, when you login, CREST should tell the client all the accounts that have been authorized. This would allow WH mapping software to use two different browser windows for different characters.

Either way, WH mapping software is definitely going to be VERY clunky from this point forward.

So, I'm curious how this issue will be resolved?



The mapping software can take care of the linking of accounts. Log in once, then log in a few more times to give the site some refresh tokens. Once that's done, it can track you, and show you all of the details at once.

Not too hard to manage, really.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2016-07-03 18:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
Steve Ronuken wrote:

The mapping software can take care of the linking of accounts. Log in once, then log in a few more times to give the site some refresh tokens. Once that's done, it can track you, and show you all of the details at once.

Not too hard to manage, really.

That's not the real problem! Tripwire etc can get the datas from CREST but the problem is how do we!!! access Tripwire without the IGB? You made a connection to get datas out of Eve to the site but how do they give the processed datas back to the players inside Eve? Or better: How do we access these sides without closing the Eve window? Eve is outsourcing a lot of informations and the IGB was THE way to get it back to the players.
someone listed all the shortcommings of the overlays. Could we please talk about this problem and the solution CCP is offering? Is CCP offering something? I don't think so and THAT's the problem!
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#345 - 2016-07-03 19:03:57 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

The mapping software can take care of the linking of accounts. Log in once, then log in a few more times to give the site some refresh tokens. Once that's done, it can track you, and show you all of the details at once.

Not too hard to manage, really.

That's not the real problem! Tripwire etc can get the datas from CREST but the problem is how do we!!! access Tripwire without the IGB? You made a connection to get datas out of Eve to the site but how do they give the processed datas back to the players inside Eve? Or better: How do we access these sides without closing the Eve window? Eve is outsourcing a lot of informations and the IGB was THE way to get it back to the players.
someone listed all the shortcommings of the overlays. Could we please talk about this problem and the solution CCP is offering? Is CCP offering something? I don't think so and THAT's the problem!



That's what an OOG browser, or a browser overlay is for?
No need to shut down eve to do it. (run in fixed window, if you want to be able to alt tab, leaving Eve visible)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Denisok94ru Denisok94ru
Black Submarine
#346 - 2016-07-03 19:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Denisok94ru Denisok94ru
Не знаю, по мне, так в платной игре, должны спрашивать мнение игроков или устраивать голосование.
В игре в среднем 30к игроков онлайн, сделать опрос прям в самой игре и спрашивать "хотите ли Вы такое нововведение...?", что бы знать, что игроки хотят и улучшать её.
Если большинство сказала что хотят IGB в игре, значит надо улучшить его защиту, а не просто взять и вырезать из игры.
Взять и что-то изменить могут позволить себе ток бесплатные проекты.
Cismet
Silent Knights.
LinkNet
#347 - 2016-07-03 20:28:58 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

The mapping software can take care of the linking of accounts. Log in once, then log in a few more times to give the site some refresh tokens. Once that's done, it can track you, and show you all of the details at once.

Not too hard to manage, really.

That's not the real problem! Tripwire etc can get the datas from CREST but the problem is how do we!!! access Tripwire without the IGB? You made a connection to get datas out of Eve to the site but how do they give the processed datas back to the players inside Eve? Or better: How do we access these sides without closing the Eve window? Eve is outsourcing a lot of informations and the IGB was THE way to get it back to the players.
someone listed all the shortcommings of the overlays. Could we please talk about this problem and the solution CCP is offering? Is CCP offering something? I don't think so and THAT's the problem!



That's what an OOG browser, or a browser overlay is for?
No need to shut down eve to do it. (run in fixed window, if you want to be able to alt tab, leaving Eve visible)


See, this is the problem. It's been stated several times that those are not substitutions for a perfectly functional in-game tool. They have their own downsides that have been espoused several times on this thread. In addition they are absolutely not supported, nor guaranteed to remain within the TOS. As a result it's not appropriate to tout them as a replacement for the IGB.
Amilee Freed
Let's annoy'em
#348 - 2016-07-03 21:45:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Amilee Freed
Steve Ronuken wrote:


That's what an OOG browser, or a browser overlay is for?
No need to shut down eve to do it. (run in fixed window, if you want to be able to alt tab, leaving Eve visible)


So, I'm wasting Hours for PLEX on my 3rd account.

An OOG browser is for stuff that is not related to EVE and for the sake of immersion and positive player experience should stay that way. As much as possible of EVE related functionality should stay in-game.

Now I've been wondering, why a CSM represantative would so fiercely defend CCPs decission concerning the In-Game Browser removal. A decission that is bad and, for the sake of EVE let's hope I'm mistaken about it, the real havoc will take place in October when the In-Game Browser gets removed. That's when every In-Game Browser user will get really furious.

I can see that you're an OOG CREST aps developer Steve Ronuken. Do you really want to make other players experience worse?
I am really pleased to see that your gaming rig supports 3 monitors. Unfortunately, though, many players have only one screen and their computer specification will not allow them to run a variety of EVE related 3rd party stuff.
I am also sure that they would rather spend their money on the game they like playing instead of another monitor and/or hardware to enjoy the current functionality as much as possible.

Also, if I were an app developer I'd rather vote for more accessibility to those tools. Not less. As such the OOG browser, overlays or 3rd party apps create an environment in which your tools are less accessible.
EVE's a complicated and challenging game and that's the beauty of it. However, making players life even more complicated by forcing them to use Out of Game tools seems like a bad idea.
Not every EVE Online player has to be as big a geek as you are.
Speared
Let's annoy'em
#349 - 2016-07-04 02:42:26 UTC
Alright, so I'm back. No other game like EVE right now.

I've just ran 2 clients in a fixed window mode. My video card went crazy hot. I'm glad I didn't add any kind of overlay to it.
So I switched back to full screen on both acocunts. It would leave me with Alt-Tabbing to an external browser in October if I planned to use some API features the In-Game Browser provides access to, correct?
Or running just one account with some overlays hoping it wouldn't have too great of an impact on my graphics card.

I also really hate that additional amount of clicking I have to do in order to open a link in the In-Game Browser. Please make a switch to turn that pop-up off and allow opening the links in New Tab as we used to be able to, for as long as the In-Game Browser isn't removed.

Those additional clicks I have to do also have a noticeable impact on the quality of pvp. If I had to Alt-Tab to an external browser or any other 3rd party program, I think I'd quit EVE again. You don't get that in any other pvp game.

I know it won't concern the vast majority of EVE players who are either carebears or lemmings, but it might hit solo pvpers hard. Especially those flying under the Not Red Don't Shoot (NRDS) policy were we have to run KOS checks for every neutral jumping into the system and as we jump to different systems filled with neutral characters.

I know you're probably busy responding to and working on all the issues that your new update caused, however, please let us know what is your stance on the In-Game Browser removal and possible solutions in the light of all the feedback.
Is there a chance at least for the API related stuff to remain In-Game or not?

It would be great to still be able to access CVA's KOS list from within the game and set standings on the fly without having to Alt+Tab or use any 3rd party software.
It would also be nice if fleet composition intel copied from the Directional Scanner could be shared In-Game as it's now by means of the In-Game Browser.
Azzadal
Doomheim
#350 - 2016-07-04 10:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Azzadal
From time to time Overwolf browser causes runtime error and closes.
Also sometimes it works very slow (the EVE works fine) on my I7 4790K 16 RAM GF 980Ti.
I understand that is not the CCP problem but I vote for IGB to stay.
Oli Picard
The First Core - Main Branch
#351 - 2016-07-04 20:14:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Oli Picard
Does this mean the end to the XML API now?

If so how are transactions going to be recorded.
Trader Hansen
Failure Assured
Fail Nation
#352 - 2016-07-05 12:00:12 UTC
Possibly already mentioned in this thread, but with the removal of the IGB, can any in-game links that are actually URLs for external content please be made a different colour to in-game links for in-game content.
bucegi
Firman AB
#353 - 2016-07-05 19:49:26 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Burn Monroe wrote:
I understand the desire to remove the in game browser. I'm sure it's huge amounts of work to maintain. But, I'm very concerned that this will significantly disrupt WH life.

Right now, WH residents use things like siggy or tripwire with the IGB. So, when you want to come back from HS, you just right click the system closest to your WH, from the WH mapping software, and select "Set destination". I know that CREST allows for this as well, but what if the person has multiple characters on different accounts? How is that going to be accommodated? Mainly this will be a problem because even if the WH mapping tool allowed logging into two accounts with CREST, you'd have to log out of one to login with the other. And I'm guessing that would then invalidate your original CREST login, no?

I think the easiest way is to give your main account approval to be the authorizer for your other accounts. Then, when you login, CREST should tell the client all the accounts that have been authorized. This would allow WH mapping software to use two different browser windows for different characters.

Either way, WH mapping software is definitely going to be VERY clunky from this point forward.

So, I'm curious how this issue will be resolved?



The mapping software can take care of the linking of accounts. Log in once, then log in a few more times to give the site some refresh tokens. Once that's done, it can track you, and show you all of the details at once.

Not too hard to manage, really.


You sir are starting to sound like a future person with CCP prefix lol
What is so hard to understand that many players around here do not want to be disturbed by the client minimizing just to browse something?
Also I strongly believe that I shouldn't be forced to use third party apps that will or will not work and they don't replace the functionality of the ingame browser entirely and are not endorsed by ccp?
I do not want to run EvE in windowed mode, how will I quickly check the local for reds without having the surprised to wake up in a pod because I had to alt tab or whatever CCCP thinks is OK for me to do?
And last but not least, why should I browse out of game to look at those really funny gif's?

Why isn't there a poll sent out by CCP to all eve players to ask them if they agree or not with the removal of the ingame browser?? Is it so hard to implement?

Too many questions, I will stop here :)
I would be pleasantly surprised to see a proper plan of action next time something happens in eve. Not just we will do it and let's see how it goes (capture the flag....)
Damocles Orindus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#354 - 2016-07-06 06:16:12 UTC
Definitely not encouraged by the feedback from the troubleshooters and the lack of response from the devs since all the "solutions" have been looked at and found lacking.

We just hoping this will quietly go away?
Duke Garland
Niflheimr Inc.
#355 - 2016-07-06 09:31:39 UTC
Damocles Orindus wrote:
Definitely not encouraged by the feedback from the troubleshooters and the lack of response from the devs since all the "solutions" have been looked at and found lacking.

We just hoping this will quietly go away?


I sincerely hope that with whatever circumstance lead to FoXFour's departure from CCP plans are at least put on hold for now until a new DEV is assigned on the matter and worked through this threadnaught and is perhaps able to share insight on updated plans on this matter. Otherwise the help channel will certainly, in October, see an even bigger uproar than it did with the (un-)docking animation... Roll

Anyhow for the time being a statment from anybody affiliated with the team responsible for the original decision (or some statement from the PR/community management folks) would be greatly appreciated.
Or did Logibro mysteriosly disappear from payrolls too and nobody noticed?
Cismet
Silent Knights.
LinkNet
#356 - 2016-07-06 14:12:21 UTC
Duke Garland wrote:
Damocles Orindus wrote:
Definitely not encouraged by the feedback from the troubleshooters and the lack of response from the devs since all the "solutions" have been looked at and found lacking.

We just hoping this will quietly go away?


I sincerely hope that with whatever circumstance lead to FoXFour's departure from CCP plans are at least put on hold for now until a new DEV is assigned on the matter and worked through this threadnaught and is perhaps able to share insight on updated plans on this matter. Otherwise the help channel will certainly, in October, see an even bigger uproar than it did with the (un-)docking animation... Roll

Anyhow for the time being a statment from anybody affiliated with the team responsible for the original decision (or some statement from the PR/community management folks) would be greatly appreciated.
Or did Logibro mysteriosly disappear from payrolls too and nobody noticed?


This. Foxfour is no longer on the dev team. Fair enough. Either put this on hold until something can be sorted, but something from the devs who have taken over this project would be nice.

A Crest interface in-game would probably do it. Log in out of the game, and have the output piped to an in-game crest interface if that's a possibility. I don't know how much more development would be required, but there are tools used "in-space" that it's simply dangerous to use in an OOGB. Almost as bad as the damned hacking mini-game. I've been caught twice by that because I was hacking and couldn't adequately split my focus on the Overview...... That's my personal problem though and has no bearing on this matter, forget I mentioned it....
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#357 - 2016-07-07 13:47:36 UTC
I've been on the sidelines for this, but you can be very sure that this choice was a huge decision made after lots of discussion and follow-up prep work over multiple years among members of a number of teams as well as Eve Development leadership. The team is still working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Cismet
Silent Knights.
LinkNet
#358 - 2016-07-07 13:59:11 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
I've been on the sidelines for this, but you can be very sure that this choice was a huge decision made after lots of discussion and follow-up prep work over multiple years among members of a number of teams as well as Eve Development leadership. The team is still working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog.


Noone is questioning that it was a huge decision. The question is over the wisdom of the decision given the lack of viable and officially supported in-game alternatives. I'm sorry for being blunt, but that's what this comes down to. This isn't a wise decision for a large group of your player base given the lack of viable/officially supported alternatives.

I won't reiterate the reasoning that has already been iterated on this thread, but I'm disappointed that the only response has been to continue to propose "solutions" that the community have already advised you are not viable. Instead, you seem determined to further alienate large portions of your customer base.

Still, I appreciate that you took the time to at least come on and provide a dev comment following the departure of FoxFour.
Speared
Let's annoy'em
#359 - 2016-07-07 17:30:54 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
I've been on the sidelines for this, but you can be very sure that this choice was a huge decision made after lots of discussion and follow-up prep work over multiple years among members of a number of teams as well as Eve Development leadership. The team is still working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog.


It was "a huge decission made after lots of discussion" to make the plyers Alt-Tab and favor those who can use another monitor or secondary device such as a smartphone or tablet?

Your "follow-up prep work over multiple years" resulted only in CREST meant for 3rd party unsupported apps?

"Working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog" which to me is removing the browser from the client seems like a lot of work indeed.

Are you kidding me CCP?
bucegi
Firman AB
#360 - 2016-07-07 17:36:15 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
I've been on the sidelines for this, but you can be very sure that this choice was a huge decision made after lots of discussion and follow-up prep work over multiple years among members of a number of teams as well as Eve Development leadership. The team is still working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog.


Can you tell us please why, along all these years, why you didn't ask the players at all for feedback? For you just to know what the community thinks about it, so you can make the right decision.........
Isn't this the way it is supposed to work?