These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[118.6] Capital Balancing

First post First post First post
Author
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#881 - 2016-12-20 11:12:10 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
There is no way that all of those engagements are just gate camps, and they're absolutely getting more use than they saw Pre-Citadel. Just anecdotally people are using Carriers in more or less the same ways they did before, just more so. The two exceptions are Triage which has been replaced by FAXes and drone death-balls which have been relegated to sub-caps.
Of course carriers are seeing more use, they are cheap and not quite as disposable as dreads.
They have far better range and application than commonly used dread fits, they can get reps and are still cheaper than dreads.
As for drone death balls, they still exist although now it is light fighters. You don't need to assign fighters to have 30 or 40 flights engage a single target.
I'm not sure they are getting more use than prior to Citadel, they are just being used in different ways since the split off of remote reps. I remember remote repping carrier blobs being far bigger than what we see now.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#882 - 2016-12-20 14:55:53 UTC
wait... sgt what are you talking about a fully fit carrier is much more expensive than a dread now that the hulls cost about the same
Cade Windstalker
#883 - 2016-12-20 16:33:34 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
There is no way that all of those engagements are just gate camps, and they're absolutely getting more use than they saw Pre-Citadel. Just anecdotally people are using Carriers in more or less the same ways they did before, just more so. The two exceptions are Triage which has been replaced by FAXes and drone death-balls which have been relegated to sub-caps.
Of course carriers are seeing more use, they are cheap and not quite as disposable as dreads.
They have far better range and application than commonly used dread fits, they can get reps and are still cheaper than dreads.
As for drone death balls, they still exist although now it is light fighters. You don't need to assign fighters to have 30 or 40 flights engage a single target.
I'm not sure they are getting more use than prior to Citadel, they are just being used in different ways since the split off of remote reps. I remember remote repping carrier blobs being far bigger than what we see now.


They're killing more and dying more since the Citadel changes. While you're right that this isn't a straight apples to apples comparison given the changes to capital RR and the split into Carriers and FAXes it's still pretty compelling.

It's also worth noting that FAXes aren't seeing nearly the use Carriers are, though if you combine the Carrier Kill and Loss numbers with the FAX loss number you do come out with something closer to the old Carrier ISK Efficiency it's still higher overall than it was before.

Overall I'd say there's fairly compelling evidence that Carriers are indeed seeing more use than pre-Citadel even with these tweaks. More use than Dreads too, actually.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#884 - 2017-03-03 21:47:27 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi M8s,

With the 118.6 release, we're making some tweaks to a bunch of capital gameplay. We would love your feedback!

Carriers & Fighters
  • Long Range Heavy Fighters (Ametat, Termite, Antaeus, Gungnir) bomb ability now correctly scales with squadron size.
  • Warp Scramblers now stop Fighter MWDs and MJDs mid-cycle.
  • Networked Sensor Array bonus to Scan Resolution now has a stacking penalty with sensor boosters.
  • Networked Sensor Array bonus to Scan Resolution reduced to 500% (from 900%)
  • Networked Sensor Array no longer gives a bonus to number of locked targets.
  • Networked Sensor Array sensor strength bonuses now also apply to the Carrier's fighter squadrons.
  • Fighters now have orbit ranges more appropriate to their weapons system (you can see this in Show Info)
  • General Light Fighters (Templar, Dragonfly, Firbolg, Einherji) have had their basic attack application stats increased and their heavy rocket salvo application & damage stats decreased:
  • Basic Attack - Explosion Radius (lower is better): 160 (-80)
    Basic Attack - Explosion Velocity (higher is better): 150 (+30)
    Heavy Rocket Salvo - Explosion Radius (lower is better): 350 (+250)
    Heavy Rocket Salvo - Explosion Velocity (higher is better): 100 (-20)
    Heavy Rocket Salvo - Speed: 14 seconds (-4)
    Heavy Rocket Salvo - Damage (Average): 146 (-94)
    Heavy Rocket Salvo - Charges: 12 (+4)
    Heavy Rocket Salvo - Reload Time: 4 seconds (-2)
    * All stats per fighter, before skills/mods.

Force Auxiliaries
  • Triage Mode now gives ECM Immunity
  • Triage Mode's bonus to Sensor Dampener Resistance has been reduced (T1: 60%, T2: 70%)

Dreadnoughts
  • Siege Mode now gives ECM Immunity
  • Siege Module I has had its bonus to missile ROF increased to 80%
  • Siege Mode's bonus to Weapon Disruption Resistance & Sensor Dampener Resistance has been reduced (T1: 60%, T2: 70%)
  • Naglfar now has 3 turret hard-points (and an extra high slot) and has lost its role bonus of +50% damage.
  • Naglfar has an additional +60 CPU and +80,000 PG
  • XL Artillery power grid requirements have been reduced (T1: 162,500 > 125,000)

Miscellaneous
  • Void Bombs now respect Energy Warfare Resistance
  • Void Bombs and Lockbreaker Bombs now give more verbose messages about their effects in the combat log.
  • Missiles now have the correct range when fired from large ships.
  • All Capital Shield Extenders now provide 10% less shield HP.
  • Bastion Module now gives ECM Immunity
  • The missile damage formula has been simplified. Ln(drf) / Ln(5.5) has been reduced to a precalculated value. This change has no effect on game-play! More details below.

There are more changes planned. We will be looking at HAW Tracking (more info here) and Light Fighter application / alpha.

As always, we welcome your feedback!


This is all well and good - but HAW dreads are stepping all over Marauders and have an easier time applying. You guys have some major balance issues by obsoleting certain classes of ships. Just like t3d vs assault frigate.
Cade Windstalker
#885 - 2017-03-03 22:04:40 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
This is all well and good - but HAW dreads are stepping all over Marauders and have an easier time applying. You guys have some major balance issues by obsoleting certain classes of ships. Just like t3d vs assault frigate.


Um... Marauders have never been PvP focused ships, and they've never been competing with Dreads.

Bastion is not comparable to Siege.

I'm sorry you feel this way but your complaint is basically going to be viewed as "yup, working as intended" by CCP and the vast majority of the player base.
Hathor' Ra
Deep Space Conquerors
Goonswarm Federation
#886 - 2017-03-04 20:56:06 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
This is all well and good - but HAW dreads are stepping all over Marauders and have an easier time applying. You guys have some major balance issues by obsoleting certain classes of ships. Just like t3d vs assault frigate.


Um... Marauders have never been PvP focused ships, and they've never been competing with Dreads.

Bastion is not comparable to Siege.

I'm sorry you feel this way but your complaint is basically going to be viewed as "yup, working as intended" by CCP and the vast majority of the player base.


Why someone think that ship 1 is only PVE and ship 2 is only PVP ?
Open your mind! Any ship can be at any role!
Cade Windstalker
#887 - 2017-03-04 21:35:11 UTC
Hathor' Ra wrote:
Why someone think that ship 1 is only PVE and ship 2 is only PVP ?
Open your mind! Any ship can be at any role!


At no point did I say Marauders were only usable in PvE, I said they were PvE focused ships and that's what they're balanced around. What they are not supposed to be is Battleship sized dreads and they are not supposed to be dealing similar damage to HAW fit dreads.

Bastion is a tank and damage projection focused module, it is not a damage boost.

That doesn't stop it from being hilariously effective in PvP though.
Sideous Bashear
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#888 - 2017-03-05 03:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Sideous Bashear
I wanted to say that I am 100% AGAINST the proposed changes to the fighters in regard to their being targeted by NPCs in combat. The proposed changes will completely ruin the ability for me to make a living in EVE Online. If these changes are brought forth, I am not sure how long I will be able to keep subscribing to the game. I hope you decide against this change to fighter's aggression from NPCs. Thank you.

-Sid
Cade Windstalker
#889 - 2017-03-05 04:11:17 UTC
Sideous Bashear wrote:
I wanted to say that I am 100% AGAINST the proposed changes to the fighters in regard to their being targeted by NPCs in combat. The proposed changes will completely ruin the ability for me to make a living in EVE Online. If these changes are brought forth, I am not sure how long I will be able to keep subscribing to the game. I hope you decide against this change to fighter's aggression from NPCs. Thank you.

-Sid


Wrong thread for that feedback mate...
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#890 - 2017-03-09 09:09:00 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Um... Marauders have never been PvP focused ships, and they've never been competing with Dreads.

Bastion is not comparable to Siege.

I'm sorry you feel this way but your complaint is basically going to be viewed as "yup, working as intended" by CCP and the vast majority of the player base.


^ this guy is a goon troll on paplinks, don't argue with him.

I mean, whoever tried to PvE with Marauder knows it sucks in PvE, due to simply losing in damage to faction BS, sometimes by a landslide. That's strictly PvP ship, with no known PvE application a faction BS won't be better at, be it ratting, missions, or incursions.

And now HAW dread is basically a better Marauder with less cost after insurance.
Cade Windstalker
#891 - 2017-03-09 15:58:39 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
I mean, whoever tried to PvE with Marauder knows it sucks in PvE, due to simply losing in damage to faction BS, sometimes by a landslide. That's strictly PvP ship, with no known PvE application a faction BS won't be better at, be it ratting, missions, or incursions.

And now HAW dread is basically a better Marauder with less cost after insurance.


Oh man, so many things wrong with this...

First off CCP flatly stated that the Marauder is a PvE focused ship in their own rework of the things. Whether or not you find a Pirate BS better for PvE is somewhat irrelevant to that, and certainly doesn't make Marauders PvP focused, that's just laughable.

Second, while Pirate BSes certainly overshadow Marauders in raw DPS the Marauders get substantial tank, application, and projection bonuses which make them better for generally lower skilled pilots and actually let them complete some missions faster than a pirate BS due to being able to project more damage further and score cleaner hits. Pirate BSes still end up with an edge at the high end of both player skill and SP totals, but not by that much.

Lastly, comparing a HAW dread to a Marauder is a bit funny as well, especially for PvE, since you can't bring a dread into High Sec space where most Level 4 mission running happens.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#892 - 2017-03-10 06:40:33 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Orca Platypus wrote:
I mean, whoever tried to PvE with Marauder knows it sucks in PvE, due to simply losing in damage to faction BS, sometimes by a landslide. That's strictly PvP ship, with no known PvE application a faction BS won't be better at, be it ratting, missions, or incursions.

And now HAW dread is basically a better Marauder with less cost after insurance.


Oh man, so many things wrong with this...

First off CCP flatly stated that the Marauder is a PvE focused ship in their own rework of the things. Whether or not you find a Pirate BS better for PvE is somewhat irrelevant to that, and certainly doesn't make Marauders PvP focused, that's just laughable.


Not quite right. Look at what they do not at what they say. It does not matter what CCP state. What they really do (here i mean real ship balance) is matter.
In PvE you see Marauders. In PvP - it's only couple of youtubers who does even use these ships.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"