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[June Release] Combat Booster Legalization

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Cade Windstalker
#121 - 2016-07-12 03:11:19 UTC
How does mitigating what is basically just an RNG check on every gate you jump through in High Sec, or removing it entirely, good gameplay? Doesn't fix the issue that Boosters were almost unusable for most players because you can't jump through gates in high sec with them.
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#122 - 2016-07-17 19:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nya Kittenheart
Well making boosters legal doesnt change the fact than most people won t use them in most case because of the painanalty risk...
Outside of very specific cases combat boosters are mostly useless.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#123 - 2016-07-18 10:02:13 UTC
Nya Kittenheart wrote:
Well making boosters legal doesnt change the fact than most people won t use them in most case because of the painanalty risk...
Outside of very specific cases combat boosters are mostly useless.


I disagree and I use them very often. Sometimes I even try to sound intoxicated on comms to relay side-effects for the audience. But nobody listens to e2..

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Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#124 - 2016-07-23 02:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nya Kittenheart
Feel free to disagree,fact is combat boosters are a temporary buff (aka elixir ,potions or whatever you wanna call them) like in any other mmorpg ,the kind of consumable you use when you want to make a difference.

And a buff that may provide a random devastating debuff when consumed is not going to see is usage increase for the simple fact that you can t trust them when needed outside of very specific cases, seems like you fall in that category.Debuff should always be known before consumption RNG is a *****...

Finally having such a wide pool of penalties ,is what crippling combat boosters way much more than any transport issue.
Cade Windstalker
#125 - 2016-07-23 04:53:43 UTC
Nya Kittenheart wrote:
Feel free to disagree,fact is combat boosters are a temporary buff (aka elixir ,potions or whatever you wanna call them) like in any other mmorpg ,the kind of consumable you use when you want to make a difference.

And a buff that may provide a random devastating debuff when consumed is not going to see is usage increase for the simple fact that you can t trust them when needed outside of very specific cases, seems like you fall in that category.Debuff should always be known before consumption RNG is a *****...

Finally having such a wide pool of penalties ,is what crippling combat boosters way much more than any transport issue.


Most people simply use them on fits where either the debuff doesn't hurt them much if at all, or the buff is worth whatever debuff they get saddled with.

Besides, having the debuffs makes them *far* more interesting than simple buff potions in other games.
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#126 - 2016-07-23 05:07:32 UTC
Quote:
Most people simply use them on fits where either the debuff doesn't hurt them much if at all, or the buff is worth whatever debuff they get saddled with.

Besides, having the debuffs makes them *far* more interesting than simple buff potions in other games.


Never said the debuff should be removed i said it should be predictable,by removing the randomness in the trade.

Currently the design is failing the purpose, hence why i m saying they are useless.
Cade Windstalker
#127 - 2016-07-23 05:20:21 UTC
Nya Kittenheart wrote:
Quote:
Most people simply use them on fits where either the debuff doesn't hurt them much if at all, or the buff is worth whatever debuff they get saddled with.

Besides, having the debuffs makes them *far* more interesting than simple buff potions in other games.


Never said the debuff should be removed i said it should be predictable,by removing the randomness in the trade.

Currently the design is failing the purpose, hence why i m saying they are useless.


And you don't have to use them. A lot of people disagree with you though.

IMO making the debuffs completely predictable makes them less interesting and turns them from a potentially risky trade-off to another simple min-maxing tool.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#128 - 2016-07-23 10:01:42 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:


And you don't have to use them. A lot of people disagree with you though.

IMO making the debuffs completely predictable makes them less interesting and turns them from a potentially risky trade-off to another simple min-maxing tool.

What CCP themselves discussed at one fanfest is if people get a negative, they tend to simply not undock for PvP that day.
It was a couple of years ago now so I suppose in theory that trend could have changed, however given all the new drugs introduced have no downside I seriously doubt that trend has changed much at all.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2016-07-23 12:13:51 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:


And you don't have to use them. A lot of people disagree with you though.

IMO making the debuffs completely predictable makes them less interesting and turns them from a potentially risky trade-off to another simple min-maxing tool.

What CCP themselves discussed at one fanfest is if people get a negative, they tend to simply not undock for PvP that day.
It was a couple of years ago now so I suppose in theory that trend could have changed, however given all the new drugs introduced have no downside I seriously doubt that trend has changed much at all.

Hey could someone be so kind as to explain a quick point about some of the skills related to combat boosters?

For a quick example, "Neurotoxin recovery" is trained to reduce the chances of negative consequences for those boosters. Up to level 5, that's a 25% chance reduction. Using "improved" boosters as an example, their chance of side effect is 25%. So if you level 5 "Neurotoxin recovery" and get that 25% reduction, does that reduce the chance to zero, or does it reduce it to 18.75%?

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Cade Windstalker
#130 - 2016-07-23 20:31:04 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:

Hey could someone be so kind as to explain a quick point about some of the skills related to combat boosters?

For a quick example, "Neurotoxin recovery" is trained to reduce the chances of negative consequences for those boosters. Up to level 5, that's a 25% chance reduction. Using "improved" boosters as an example, their chance of side effect is 25%. So if you level 5 "Neurotoxin recovery" and get that 25% reduction, does that reduce the chance to zero, or does it reduce it to 18.75%?


There's a great infographic that explains almost everything in great detail.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:


And you don't have to use them. A lot of people disagree with you though.

IMO making the debuffs completely predictable makes them less interesting and turns them from a potentially risky trade-off to another simple min-maxing tool.

What CCP themselves discussed at one fanfest is if people get a negative, they tend to simply not undock for PvP that day.
It was a couple of years ago now so I suppose in theory that trend could have changed, however given all the new drugs introduced have no downside I seriously doubt that trend has changed much at all.


Fair points, but the "new" drugs are mostly attribute boosters, which don't affect combat directly, and small increases like the Quafe which are closer in impact to Synth boosters which don't have a downside anyway.

I don't think they could reasonably remove the negatives and keep the positives as they are, though you could certainly make a case for removing the chance to get multiple negative effects and reworking the mechanics around that. IMO that would keep them interesting and allow for the high magnitude effects while taking away some of the really spiky results of the RNG element.

Alternatively you could make it so that multiple effects means less severe effects, so instead of -10% to one thing you get -6% to two things or -4.5% to three things. Maybe even introduce "Custom Boosters" with lower effect than Strong but you get to remove one downside from rolling in exchange for higher cost and slightly lower magnitude.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#131 - 2016-07-24 01:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Nya Kittenheart wrote:
Feel free to disagree,fact is combat boosters are a temporary buff (aka elixir ,potions or whatever you wanna call them) like in any other mmorpg ,the kind of consumable you use when you want to make a difference.

And a buff that may provide a random devastating debuff when consumed is not going to see is usage increase for the simple fact that you can t trust them when needed outside of very specific cases, seems like you fall in that category.Debuff should always be known before consumption RNG is a *****...

Finally having such a wide pool of penalties ,is what crippling combat boosters way much more than any transport issue.


Most people simply use them on fits where either the debuff doesn't hurt them much if at all, or the buff is worth whatever debuff they get saddled with.

Besides, having the debuffs makes them *far* more interesting than simple buff potions in other games.

What about when the "debuff" counters the buff?
Using drugs with side effects that can negatively affect what your using the drug for - Isn't interesting, it's a simple gamble (one you often lose) as to whether you've just wasted a booster slot for minimal gain.

EG; Improved Sooth Sayer
30% chance of side effect
Falloff bonus 15%
Turret Optimal Range Penalty -25%.


Improved Crash is even better;
Explosion Radius Bonus -25%
Missile Velocity Penalty -25%
Get hit with that one, you've wasted a booster slot.

I'm not saying drugs should be a guaranteed buff but at least make them so the debuff doesn't affect the buff your seeking.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Cade Windstalker
#132 - 2016-07-25 14:13:09 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
What about when the "debuff" counters the buff?
Using drugs with side effects that can negatively affect what your using the drug for - Isn't interesting, it's a simple gamble (one you often lose) as to whether you've just wasted a booster slot for minimal gain.

EG; Improved Sooth Sayer
30% chance of side effect
Falloff bonus 15%
Turret Optimal Range Penalty -25%.


Improved Crash is even better;
Explosion Radius Bonus -25%
Missile Velocity Penalty -25%
Get hit with that one, you've wasted a booster slot.

I'm not saying drugs should be a guaranteed buff but at least make them so the debuff doesn't affect the buff your seeking.


I believe both of those are fine, if not really ideal. The falloff and range bonus hurts a bit, but if you're using something like Autocannons, or even Blasters with a falloff bonus'd ship, then you're still getting some benefit, just less than you would otherwise.

I believe the Missile Velocity penalty is to the speed of the missiles, not their application stat. If I'm wrong and that is Explosion Velocity then I agree completely that's stupid and should be changed.

Like I said though, I can get behind some tweaking to Booster mechanics to make them a bit more user friendly so long as they don't just turn into "buff pots" where there's no reason not to use them, ever, like a Cap Power Relay on a ship with no Shield Booster.
Mundi Comedentis
U.N.I.T.
#133 - 2016-08-20 12:34:13 UTC
I am not very good with words. but dont partly legialize it. L
LEGALIZE IT, all the way. allow production in Hi Sec. do it the legal way we do in real life. TAX it, ISSUE Premits for ISK Fee's
Darth Terona
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#134 - 2016-10-03 21:25:36 UTC
Galaxxis wrote:
So won't this render the newly-introduced SoE boosters obsolete? Sure they have no side-effects, but with decent skills you can take standard boosters without getting side-effects anyway and they give a much bigger boost.



Not true.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#135 - 2016-10-05 04:36:03 UTC
Mundi Comedentis wrote:
I am not very good with words. but dont partly legialize it. L
LEGALIZE IT, all the way. allow production in Hi Sec. do it the legal way we do in real life. TAX it, ISSUE Premits for ISK Fee's


No. That's a terrible idea. Production in highsec is already the overwhelming majority.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2016-10-11 19:16:14 UTC
They've basically turned an interesting gameplay element into a universal power creep. Roll

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices