Intergalactic Summit

Yes, it is.




Unlucky in that we were born descended from criminals, certainly.



We fight for God. To uphold His plans for us. We are a civilization that has lasted for four thousand years, that has seen trillions of trillions of scholars, priests, scientists, and other wisemen live and die seeking out the why's of our existence. We don't fight for slavery, we fight to discover the meaning of life, to fulfill our purpose.

But if you want to know the thing Amarr really fights for, with all of the religious rhetoric divorced from it? Unity. Amarr fights for the unification of all humanity, all creation even, into one, single whole. The Empire of God. That's the Reclaiming, the Destiny of Faith. It is what we believe to be our purpose, and it is a complete quest on its own. Thoughts and actions must be brought in order, the natural laws of the universe must be uncovered so that we know how to best adhere to them, territory must be expanded, and people must be brought into the whole. Amarr's fight will not be over until our Empire stretches across the whole universe, all people one under God and our eyes open to the fullness of His creation, and the Books of Scripture at last closed because there is no more left to add.

Slavery has been part of our culture for so long because it was a means by which to integrate conquered people into our society in a way in which their previous values could not spread to erode the unity we are seeking to build. As I would hope a former Holder would know, in Amarr you are not a citizen if you are not a member of the faith. Conquered peoples are, for the most part, not members of the faith. There are two responses that can be taken to that, in a society in which simply casting them out is contrary to our goals. You can demand they all convert, and execute those who refuse or give only lip service (which would lead to an extremely high death toll), or you can isolate them in their own communities until they integrate, or their descendants have. But those communities can not be kept funded on charity. There has to be a reason to spend so much money on feeding, clothing, and housing these groups of foreigners. So, a reason was given: Put them to work. If they are useful, then resources can be spent to keep them alive and healthy. Slavery was not created for the benefit of the slaves, certainly; it was created for benefit of the land holders and governors who were going to be burdened with a bunch of resentful people that didn't follow the same religion, didn't speak the same language, and didn't have any money, but did have skills and the ability to perform labor. Slavery was an answer to the question, "What do you do with a conquered people?"

Whether you believe in the religious incentive is irrelevant. For the goals we seek, slavery was deemed beneficial. It had a use for our society. Of course, the needs of society is something that is often considered irrelevant by people who argue only on behalf of individual freedom.

Is slavery still necessary today? Well, that's a much more complicated question. Certainly its current form is dated, and today the greatest threat of foreign influence comes not from conquered peoples in our midst but from the outside, from the holonet network, open trade markets, and interstellar integration. It's no longer possible to simply cordon away subversive elements, because subversive elements are all around us and we don't have the power to defeat them in the way we could before. And slaves represent the single biggest vulnerability to those foreign ideas, because we're already in a place of uncertainty; we're already people whose lives are spent being built into what others wish of us.

Amarr don't fight "for slavery". We fight for unification, for the Reclaiming. It's possible that we'll eventually eliminate slavery on our own someday because it is becoming increasingly less relevant in the modern age, but it did have a purpose in our society. It wouldn't have lasted four thousand years if it hadn't.



It's not a very good argument that presents a case without explaining why that case is the right one. A lot of people in this thread are very intent on arguing that something is good "just because".

You seem to be under the impression the State isn't perfectly aware the Empire has everyone on the Reclaiming list. Do you think they're stupid or something? The simple fact is that the Empire would never be sufficiently stupid to make an enemy out of the State, and the State knows what side their bread is buttered. They make a staggering amount of money from their trade and science cooperation with the Empire for one. More importantly, the Federation quite adamantly refuses to seek a peaceful resolution that'd work for both parties and so the State has absolutely no reason to turn on their allies. Quite the opposite.

If the Federation hadn't been such a thorn in the State's side, perhaps there could have been overtures towards peace for the State, Federation and Republic with non-aggression pacts throughout and the State could become a neutral entity trading (and profiting) equally with all without being militarily involved in the conflicts. On a State level, of course. What the Megas do individually is another matter entirely.

As it stands, the State very much should stand with the Empire, from the State's point of view. It'd be political, military and financial suicide not to as long as the Federation remains a hostile entity and the Republic stands with it, however tenuously.

Besides, do you really want to push the Empire to the point where it has so little left to lose that it'll go to full out actual war against the Federation and Tribes? An Erebus over Amarr Prime? Getting to that point would be so costly a conflict that all the bloodshed seen in New Eden's nasty history would be like a puddle next to an ocean.

In the end, it may very well end up being the only option for everyone involved, but until then I really recommend keeping a more realistic view of things. Keep up the pressure, save those that can be saved and show the Empire that slavery will remain far too costly compared to the benefits they reap.

The only thing that might save New Eden from the most costly wars it has ever seen would be either a perfect status quo which is rather unlikely, or forcing it to change at a pace that isn't quite so glacial as it is now. Simply attacking the faith or impotently threatening with Titans over Amarr Prime achieves absolutely nothing.

Then again, this came from a Hordie so I shouldn't be surprised. That vaunted "Sounding the Horde Horn" nonsense should be renamed "tootling the tard tuba", really.

Well, excuse me for turning the discussion away from the slavery. Yes, I am guilty in that.

Firstly, because you have claimed to choosing honor when you openly have chosen dishonor by treason.

But I guess I owe then explanation about slavery as well, before some idiots would claim I support it or even fight for it. I have just six words about it:

It is not my *beep* business.

In Caldari State slavery is prohibited by law. We neither practise, nor support, nor allow it inside our territory. All sort of slavery is illegal here. On the other hand, what other empires do with their social institution, it is not our business. How Amarr Empire organize their lifestyle, how they treat themselves - it is only their own problems, it is their lives, their traditions, customs. Not ours.

We have said 'No' to slavery, and we stick to it. Also, we aren't bullies and we don't tell others what to think about slavery and how to organize it. If they want slavery, if they need it - it is their damn right to use it, provided it won't be practised over Caldari citizens or in Caldari territory.

You, Mr. Exodus, have committed an official exodus from the Amarr Empire and have lost your right to tell them how they should organize their lives. The moment you discuss the slavery and point finger on Amarrians, you become a bully and generally terrible offensive person.

If you really would like to discuss, and especially judge slavery, I think you shall stop considering Amarr slavery ever and look into your new 'friends' and their slavery.

As far as I know minmatars have the largest illegal slavery criminal organization, called 'Angel Cartel'. Unlike Amarr Empire, who enslave only criminals and prisoners of war, minmatars from this cartel are known to enslave just anyone they want.

Do you like your new slavery neighbors?

She's not too far off.

From our beginnings, the Cartel has had a very significant amount of Matari members. Our tattoos are a nod to the Matari heritage that's a part of us.

Thing is, we don't give a rat **** for origin. Once you're a part of the Cartel, you're part of the Familia. Racial customs are celebrated, but loyalty to the Cartel is paramount.

This is a philosophy that Pandemic Horde and other NullSec organizations have adopted over the years. Why fight and kill and die for a system that only wants to use us, when we can fight for our own interests?

As for slavery in the Cartel? Meh, it happens. It's just business though. There's no grand sweeping moral cause, like in Amarr. And Amarr are much more successful at slavery than we are.

We are indeed separate from the Empires. But we're vastly different than the Bloodraiders.

As much as I hate to admit it, she's right. The way it stands now is the only way it can be without a lot of bloodshed. If the Caldari were to betray that alliance the Federation might take that opportunity to end the hostilities in a most final manner. Granted, it would likely be a bloody war with heavy casualties for the Gallente, but it's one that the Federation has a good chance of winning.
The only thing that is preventing that is an opponent that matches their strength standing behind their enemy poised to deal with the survivors. Likewise for the alliance my people have with the Federation. Both the tribes and the Caldari have made a proverbial deal with the devil and brought about a stalemate.

Some people also need punctuation. And phrasing. Punctuation and phrasing help a lot. Pilot Slayer Liberator (...is that really your name?), you may want to get your translator checked out.

Empire or Honour ... right?

I noticed some people coming down on the word honour. Saying that there is something wrong with putting honour before social structure or political and military command. These types of people are usually referred to as tyrants given enough man power and time.

The truth is honour is more important than many people realize. I assume it is a rhetorical question when you say "Empire or Honour" but it is actually as good a statement as any.

The Amarr Empire is so distasteful that one can belong to a dishonorable organization and still achieve honour by not being smiled upon by Empirical order. That being said. Honour is as delicate and "shady" a word as that. That is why it is a personal word and less associated with mainstream ideology or large organizations than it should be.

However, if larger sects of people put that word in conjunction with titles. Corporation headlines would hold more dependable, amicable, and respectable reputations.

Like ... "the honour of the Empire"
or ... "by the honour of the TRIADS."
and ... "for the honour of the U'K."

statements like that should be used frequently and be sincere.

That is why I support your move away from the dishonor of the Empire.