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Empire or Honour?
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Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#81 - 2016-06-09 22:54:05 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Ever been an actual slave, Mr. Isu? If not, sit down and shut the **** up.



This. So much this.

“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”
Slayer Liberator
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2016-06-09 22:55:47 UTC
Anataine Deva wrote:
Being a piece of property for over 16 years myself, I'm glad you, Aurum, came finally to the right conclusion about slavery.

In retrospect I had luck with my owner. He treated me comparatively good. I had a roof over my head, a bed, good clothes, never had to starve and could live together with my mother. In many things I had it better than most of the free people, yes. But what I never had was freedom. The simple freedom to go where I want. To make my own decissions about my life, my future, the people I care about. That's something people who were born free, who never had to fight to get that privilege will understand or value high enough.

Again, I'm glad you came to the right conclusion and I really hope you stick to your words.

And about honor: Honor is an invention of men to justify their own atrocities. As such it's most commonly used by those who either don't have nor deserve it.

There's a saying made up long ago that i take to heart. it is "a miserable free man is better off than a content slave"
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#83 - 2016-06-10 00:17:02 UTC
A statement that will make consequentialists everywhere go red in the face...

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#84 - 2016-06-10 00:17:54 UTC
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Modern Amarr Empire doesn't conduct acts of aggression. Their current doctrine allows enslaving of only criminals and prisoners of war. (There was though an act of agression that I greatly respect, but it was done not by the Empire itself, but by one of the Heirs without approval and it has ended in the failure, unfortunately.)


Um...what's that line you like using? "Are you a liar, or just stupid?"

Amarr totally engages in slave taking missions! And not just Matari!

So, are you a liar or just stupid?

Go consult a MIO representative about their enslaving policies before writing your next nonsence of forum.

Sinti Vailatti wrote:

And guess what Commander Skippy? Since you're their ally, you're morally complicit. How awesome is that?

"Morally complicit"?!
And what am I "complicit" and even "morally"?
In pointing out on your stupidity? Yea, I admit, I hate tribals who think in primitive terms and twist morals.

Sinti Vailatti wrote:
Want me to sell you some nice Gallente slaves that you can call your own?

Selling, buying, owning, holding, transporting, using or being a slave is illegal in Caldari State.

If you are into slave trade, Minmatar, you shall ask your other minmatar "friends"... I guess from Angel Cartel. This is probably the most infamous slaver trading cartel in the cluster. But here in the State you'd sooner get a bullet into forehead than a deal with your slaves.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#85 - 2016-06-10 00:46:20 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Modern Amarr Empire doesn't conduct acts of aggression. Their current doctrine allows enslaving of only criminals and prisoners of war. (There was though an act of agression that I greatly respect, but it was done not by the Empire itself, but by one of the Heirs without approval and it has ended in the failure, unfortunately.)


Um...what's that line you like using? "Are you a liar, or just stupid?"

Amarr totally engages in slave taking missions! And not just Matari!

So, are you a liar or just stupid?

Go consult a MIO representative about their enslaving policies before writing your next nonsence of forum.


Yes, let's try asking the potentially guilty party if they'll admit to the crime....

Us: Hey Mr. MIO Agent? Do you guys still force people into slavery?

MIO Agent: < insert generic denial response here >

Us: Then what is up with all those Amarr Navy ships we shoot down while they're taking slaves?

MIO Agent: < insert generic denial response here >

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#86 - 2016-06-10 01:34:32 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Modern Amarr Empire doesn't conduct acts of aggression. Their current doctrine allows enslaving of only criminals and prisoners of war. (There was though an act of agression that I greatly respect, but it was done not by the Empire itself, but by one of the Heirs without approval and it has ended in the failure, unfortunately.)


Um...what's that line you like using? "Are you a liar, or just stupid?"

Amarr totally engages in slave taking missions! And not just Matari!

So, are you a liar or just stupid?

Go consult a MIO representative about their enslaving policies before writing your next nonsence of forum.


Yes, let's try asking the potentially guilty party if they'll admit to the crime....

Guilty?! THEIR crime?!!

Specially for gallentean ignorants, I'll clarify that MIO stands for "Ministry of Internal Order". Order. Yes, it is Amarr law enforcing organization. Do you know what does it mean, gallentean?!

It means stop annoying me with your ignorance.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#87 - 2016-06-10 02:16:52 UTC
And she's saying they would give the run around on a law they're ignoring being broken. Its not that hard to understand Diana.
Solu Terona
Alexylva Paradox
#88 - 2016-06-10 04:05:29 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
And she's saying they would give the run around on a law they're ignoring being broken. Its not that hard to understand Diana.


Save your breath, Diana Kim is literally unable to understand the concept of "Ulterior motives"

Humans must eventually break out from the limits of biology, its not radical to accept the inevitable.
Anataine Deva
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2016-06-10 07:24:49 UTC
bardghost Isu wrote:
Being part of what society ? one where you work for those who have a lot of cash to spare, Sounds awfully a lot like slavery to me, just under the impression that you have freedoms. Sure you can do more than if you were a slave, but at the end of the day you still serve someone above you.
Yes, in the end we always serve someone above us. But there is a difference between serving your own children, your love and the ones who own, beat and abuse you if they are in the mood to do so. Having the ability to choose between both that is freedom.



People who argue about slavery without ever having experienced it on their own bodies, are like children who think they understand the world like grown ups.

What comes next? A discussion of men about how a women has to bear her child?

Everyone here who think slavery is good or doesn't matter, please go to a slave trader and sell yourself for a few years. After that we can continue to argue if slavery is good or if it's dishonorable to refuse it.
Aurum Exodus wrote:
To all of you who say freedom is not real or that it does not matter I challenge you to go to sanshas nation and let them enslave you. I imagine many of you would never do this which proves you value whatever freedom you have.
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Ever been an actual slave, Mr. Isu? If not, sit down and shut the **** up.
There is nothing to add.

Give The BIG Lottery a try (it's conform with the EULA) and me your Fedos!
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#90 - 2016-06-10 08:10:01 UTC
Anataine Deva wrote:
People who argue about slavery without ever having experienced it on their own bodies, are like children who think they understand the world like grown ups.


This is very true.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#91 - 2016-06-10 11:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Forgive me, but I disagree: those of us lucky enough to have been free citizens our whole lives are still perfectly capable of having our opinions on the subject.

First-hand experience is not the only valid form of education, and while I may not know what being sold at auction feels like, I'm damn well empathic enough to imagine myself in that situation and have an intuition of what I would feel.

This is a skill common to all well-adjusted people.

Pilot Isu's thoughts might arguably be ignorant, inaccurate and fallacious, but if they are then that's not automatically a function of his having never been a slave. I'VE never been a slave either, and yet I note that nobody's telling ME to sit down and shut up when I speak out in opposition to slavery.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Anataine Deva
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2016-06-10 12:00:45 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Forgive me, but I disagree: those of us lucky enough to have been free citizens our whole lives are still perfectly capable of having our opinions on the subject...
Of course you can have your opinion about a subject. Like a child can have its opinion about how much are too much sweets.

Stitcher wrote:
...First-hand experience is not the only valid form of education, and while I may not know what being sold at auction feels like, I'm damn well empathic enough to imagine myself in that situation and have a sense of what I would feel.

This is a skill common to all well-adjusted people.
You can imagine and empathize whatever you want but I'm sure if I break your arm, in reality it will hurt much more than in your imagination.

Give The BIG Lottery a try (it's conform with the EULA) and me your Fedos!
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#93 - 2016-06-10 12:52:13 UTC
This is an awful lot of fuss over a farmer switching sides.
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2016-06-10 12:54:25 UTC
I maybe never was a slave myself and never had any slaves myself, but I met quite a lot of them running around streets. I was even playing with some of them when I was a kid.

I don't understand, why peoples are going nuts about slavery? Maybe because they are simply nuts and don't have anything better to do? Or maybe they are envy that we live good and they live in poverty, so they make up stuff just to attack us because of their jealousy...

We with slavery live way better than you without. And you can't stop us, because God protects us.

((

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Anataine Deva
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2016-06-10 14:29:15 UTC
Karmilla Strife wrote:
This is an awful lot of fuss over a farmer switching sides.
Yep, and now you are a part of it :D

Give The BIG Lottery a try (it's conform with the EULA) and me your Fedos!
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#96 - 2016-06-10 14:36:36 UTC
Always glad to contribute.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#97 - 2016-06-10 14:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Anataine Deva wrote:
You can imagine and empathize whatever you want but I'm sure if I break your arm, in reality it will hurt much more than in your imagination.



Sure. But I can still imagine enough to know that breaking my arm is something I'd rather not do.

I don't need to grok the full emotional impact of a situation in order to make informed decisions based on my anticipation of that impact.

Besides, there are male obstetricians and gynecologists, and we can mathematically model what falling into a black hole will do to a person without actually parking near one and throwing some poor test subject out the airlock. An abstract and academic perspective on the problem can be just as valid - and as valuable - as an intimate and intuitive knowledge of it. You don't have to be homosexual to campaign for gay rights, and you don't have to have been a slave to value freedom.

Sneering about "the opinions of children" only serves to alienate your allies.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Aurum Exodus
Trauma Inflicting
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#98 - 2016-06-10 14:51:32 UTC
Karmilla Strife wrote:
This is an awful lot of fuss over a farmer switching sides.


((going OOC because how exactly am I farmer? This character has like literally no amarr standing and it literally sits docked in a station for rp purposes. It rarely comes out to play unless I need logi cause its a perfect logi account. That is changing as I unsubbed one of my other accounts so this one will see more action but up to this point, what farming has this account done? In Back to IC))

Those of you who are living in the Empire but are commenting on slavery need to seriously wake up. You are defending a system that is a constant source of suffering and conflict. Why are you all ok with this?

On a side note, my new family within Ushra 'Khan is wonderful, they are treating me very well. I just wanted to update everyone on this, just so you can see the contrast between the integrity of the groups of people. The tribal way of life is something very special and I wish more of you follow in my foot steps, leave behind the Empire, and come join us.

USHRA 'KHAN
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#99 - 2016-06-10 15:09:39 UTC
Stitcher wrote:

Sneering about "the opinions of children" only serves to alienate your allies.

and may be somewhat childish in itself.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#100 - 2016-06-10 15:12:39 UTC
Aurum Exodus wrote:


On a side note, my new family within Ushra 'Khan is wonderful, they are treating me very well. I just wanted to update everyone on this, just so you can see the contrast between the integrity of the groups of people. The tribal way of life is something very special and I wish more of you follow in my foot steps, leave behind the Empire, and come join us.

USHRA 'KHAN

They still owe me a U'K T-shirt...

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.