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Hiring someone based on their ability in EVE?

Author
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-19 17:43:59 UTC
Ok, I wouldn't based my decision entirely on their performance in EVE, but some of the things accomplished, including the writing of some of the apps and such really stand out positively in my mind.

Also, some of the more successful market players, if they could iterate why they make the successful decisions that they do, stand out to me to have hiring qualities.

Would you hire a great suicide ganker? (Doug! This isn't EVE and the mail guy is madder than heck that he had to clean up his knocked over mail cart! No you don't get a 'kill mail'!)

Yes it's 'merely a game', but a complex game that requires a level of mastery of forms of complexity in order to have notable success.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-12-19 19:56:44 UTC
That's a really interesting question. I'd say yes, I'd take success in EVE into account when hiring. I can think of a specific example, a certain corp CEO I knew. He was a new player organizing and herding around a corp full of other new players, and he did it really well. With humor, but also with firmness when needed. A guy like that is going to be an asset in an RL operation too. And in another MMO (a big side vs. side strategy game), there was one player how just excelled at getting the team together and making the tough decisions for everyone. I later found out he was a retired prison warden. (Probably about the right skill set for leading around a bunch of rogue MMO gamers). Smile
Anyway, I'd say yes-- if somebody showed skill in EVE, I might think the skills could carry over into an RL enterprise.
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#3 - 2011-12-20 19:48:37 UTC
First of all, take this kindly since I'm just being serious for a bit:

As a Psychologist that has HHRR experience written on his resume and has had its share of job interviews from BOTH sides of the fence (looking for job sux, but even more when you are interviewing people) I'm sadly prone to tell you that no, at least in LatinAmerica, no EVE Online skill of any grade will net you any kind of real work unless thinly or grossly veiled as "Lead Designer of Internet/Software Application for Icelandic Corporation" and even then that's pushing it. Only jobs that require the skillset you are proposing are jobs that demand much more than software writing, and the ability to code and , as you nicely put it, ability to coordinate ganks (theorized under your purview as leadership, coordination and planification , of sorts) are mutually exclusive and completely set up in a void. You could sing well and rub your tummy and forehead at the same time for that matter.

On the other hand I have rejected people outright for failing simple Bender tests without even looking deeply at their resumes, taking into consideration the test is aimed at children but works wonders for detecting brain damage so that's a "hidden barrier" before even a selection process can begin.

To put it bluntly, if I had to hire someone with EVE Experience I might as well hire the Dota, LoL, HoN top players in the leaderboards too, since they have acute reflexes and a way with macroing and button mashing in logical mechanical sequences that push them beyond the boundaries of most 1950's secretaries.

I totally understand what you imply, what I fail to see is any redeeming attribute on people that can detect market patterns and the ability to organize a bunch of people in a VIRTUAL world that has no consequence nor risk associated to real life. Anyone can play the market game with virtual monopoly money (understanding the process behind it) and anyone with focus enough can convert a team of ENDLESS RESPAWN electronic avatars into a superior force of doom in any decent FPS.

Beginning to equate such things to real life applications is a borderline chasm that hints more at a naive view of the world or a blatant cognitive bias, that if unchecked will indeed have real life consequences.

If you feel you have a set of skills that set you apart , base them on real life applications and EXPERIENCE within the normal boundaries of the World we live in, not the one we fly spaceship pew pews. Despite the advocacy of several groups of researches and investigations (most of them easily debunked) , being on the net does not give you any skill you could not develop on your own outside (and this a very important aspect of my point) and more often than not does not give you superpowers or any other kind of advantage over other people in ways of thinking.

If you want to view it in a TLDR form, being good at making sausages and organizing the next beer party at your house does not make you stand above or below anyone in the world.

Take this small post as way to encourage you to develop the skills you think you have into a real life set of assets, by doing things that will have an impact outside of the scope of this game and limited social circle.

This is in no way an attack or a troll post (even If I'm known on some circles for that) but just a friendly advice and trust it as much as you can trust any advice on the net, with a grain of salt.

Keep writing apps, but keep studying, grow, evolve, keep understanding, keep ganking and organizing in a more efficient manner, but keep growing never stay still in your belief, challenge yourself everyday to keep getting better no matter how good you think you are, because the world is a big place and it keeps going on, and no matter how much you think you have done it will never be enough.

And when you compare yourself to others and someone like me is deciding who is better (usually not understanding a single thing of what you do, but with a clear concept of a profile in mind to check) who do you think I will choose: The guy that has a series of easily verifiable jobs and certificates, degrees or diplomas or work experience in RL corporations and businesses with a tangible set of real world skills OR someone that comes full of optimism and perhaps, just perhaps, will do the job better than the other guy, but I have no real point of reference except this strange sideline in the cv that says he coded an app for an online game and says he has leaderships skills based on "virtual social interaction and ability to organize large groups of people in simulated reality?" Ugh

Cheers!

Hope you find a good job if you looking too btw, I know how hard it is sometimes. o/

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#4 - 2011-12-20 20:21:54 UTC
Eve can certainly bring out traits which might be desirable for certain jobs. Good FCs and CEOs know how to deal with people (or possess the force of will to compel people to action). Traders and industrialists tend to be highly organized and efficient. Some PVPers are incredibly creative.

The skills used to succeed in Eve aren't real-life skills. The social structure is different, the work environment is different, and you can't simply respawn in a new clone when things go wrong in the real world. All these things affect someone's behavior and performance, and someone who might be an absolute terror on the battlefield of Eve might be an incredibly timid person in real life...because there are real consequences out here.

I'd say that if you could seriously evaluate someone's performance in Eve, you would gain some interesting insights into them that could be useful in considering them as an applicant. But that's as far as I would ever take it.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#5 - 2011-12-21 02:45:57 UTC
Duvida wrote:
Ok, I wouldn't based my decision entirely on their performance in EVE, but some of the things accomplished, including the writing of some of the apps and such really stand out positively in my mind.

Also, some of the more successful market players, if they could iterate why they make the successful decisions that they do, stand out to me to have hiring qualities.

Would you hire a great suicide ganker? (Doug! This isn't EVE and the mail guy is madder than heck that he had to clean up his knocked over mail cart! No you don't get a 'kill mail'!)

Yes it's 'merely a game', but a complex game that requires a level of mastery of forms of complexity in order to have notable success.



An app is an app, no matter for what it was written.

I suicide ganker is probably not the kind of personality that would make a good employee in a real workplace, unless the job is help desk or customer service, but that's a "chicken or egg" situation. Usually it's such a job that creates a suicide ganker, not the other way around.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#6 - 2011-12-21 02:47:59 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
First of all, take this kindly since I'm just being serious for a bit:

As a Psychologist that has HHRR experience written on his resume and has had its share of job interviews from BOTH sides of the fence (looking for job sux, but even more when you are interviewing people) I'm sadly prone to tell you that no, at least in LatinAmerica, no EVE Online skill of any grade will net you any kind of real work unless thinly or grossly veiled as "Lead Designer of Internet/Software Application for Icelandic Corporation" and even then that's pushing it. Only jobs that require the skillset you are proposing are jobs that demand much more than software writing, and the ability to code and , as you nicely put it, ability to coordinate ganks (theorized under your purview as leadership, coordination and planification , of sorts) are mutually exclusive and completely set up in a void. You could sing well and rub your tummy and forehead at the same time for that matter.

On the other hand I have rejected people outright for failing simple Bender tests without even looking deeply at their resumes, taking into consideration the test is aimed at children but works wonders for detecting brain damage so that's a "hidden barrier" before even a selection process can begin.

To put it bluntly, if I had to hire someone with EVE Experience I might as well hire the Dota, LoL, HoN top players in the leaderboards too, since they have acute reflexes and a way with macroing and button mashing in logical mechanical sequences that push them beyond the boundaries of most 1950's secretaries.

I totally understand what you imply, what I fail to see is any redeeming attribute on people that can detect market patterns and the ability to organize a bunch of people in a VIRTUAL world that has no consequence nor risk associated to real life. Anyone can play the market game with virtual monopoly money (understanding the process behind it) and anyone with focus enough can convert a team of ENDLESS RESPAWN electronic avatars into a superior force of doom in any decent FPS.

Beginning to equate such things to real life applications is a borderline chasm that hints more at a naive view of the world or a blatant cognitive bias, that if unchecked will indeed have real life consequences.

If you feel you have a set of skills that set you apart , base them on real life applications and EXPERIENCE within the normal boundaries of the World we live in, not the one we fly spaceship pew pews. Despite the advocacy of several groups of researches and investigations (most of them easily debunked) , being on the net does not give you any skill you could not develop on your own outside (and this a very important aspect of my point) and more often than not does not give you superpowers or any other kind of advantage over other people in ways of thinking.

If you want to view it in a TLDR form, being good at making sausages and organizing the next beer party at your house does not make you stand above or below anyone in the world.

Take this small post as way to encourage you to develop the skills you think you have into a real life set of assets, by doing things that will have an impact outside of the scope of this game and limited social circle.

This is in no way an attack or a troll post (even If I'm known on some circles for that) but just a friendly advice and trust it as much as you can trust any advice on the net, with a grain of salt.

Keep writing apps, but keep studying, grow, evolve, keep understanding, keep ganking and organizing in a more efficient manner, but keep growing never stay still in your belief, challenge yourself everyday to keep getting better no matter how good you think you are, because the world is a big place and it keeps going on, and no matter how much you think you have done it will never be enough.

And when you compare yourself to others and someone like me is deciding who is better (usually not understanding a single thing of what you do, but with a clear concept of a profile in mind to check) who do you think I will choose: The guy that has a series of easily verifiable jobs and certificates, degrees or diplomas or work experience in RL corporations and businesses with a tangible set of real world skills OR someone that comes full of optimism and perhaps, just perhaps, will do the job better than the other guy, but I have no real point of reference except this strange sideline in the cv that says he coded an app for an online game and says he has leaderships skills based on "virtual social interaction and ability to organize large groups of people in simulated reality?" Ugh

Cheers!

Hope you find a good job if you looking too btw, I know how hard it is sometimes. o/




Psychologist, eh?

I keep having this dream with thousands of women in robes throwing little pickles at me. What does it mean?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-12-21 06:18:56 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Brujo Loco wrote:
First of all, take this kindly since I'm just being serious for a bit:

As a Psychologist that has HHRR experience written on his resume and has had its share of job interviews from BOTH sides of the fence (looking for job sux, but even more when you are interviewing people) I'm sadly prone to tell you that no, at least in LatinAmerica, no EVE Online skill of any grade will net you any kind of real work unless thinly or grossly veiled as "Lead Designer of Internet/Software Application for Icelandic Corporation" and even then that's pushing it. Only jobs that require the skillset you are proposing are jobs that demand much more than software writing, and the ability to code and , as you nicely put it, ability to coordinate ganks (theorized under your purview as leadership, coordination and planification , of sorts) are mutually exclusive and completely set up in a void. You could sing well and rub your tummy and forehead at the same time for that matter.

On the other hand I have rejected people outright for failing simple Bender tests without even looking deeply at their resumes, taking into consideration the test is aimed at children but works wonders for detecting brain damage so that's a "hidden barrier" before even a selection process can begin.

To put it bluntly, if I had to hire someone with EVE Experience I might as well hire the Dota, LoL, HoN top players in the leaderboards too, since they have acute reflexes and a way with macroing and button mashing in logical mechanical sequences that push them beyond the boundaries of most 1950's secretaries.

I totally understand what you imply, what I fail to see is any redeeming attribute on people that can detect market patterns and the ability to organize a bunch of people in a VIRTUAL world that has no consequence nor risk associated to real life. Anyone can play the market game with virtual monopoly money (understanding the process behind it) and anyone with focus enough can convert a team of ENDLESS RESPAWN electronic avatars into a superior force of doom in any decent FPS.

Beginning to equate such things to real life applications is a borderline chasm that hints more at a naive view of the world or a blatant cognitive bias, that if unchecked will indeed have real life consequences.

If you feel you have a set of skills that set you apart , base them on real life applications and EXPERIENCE within the normal boundaries of the World we live in, not the one we fly spaceship pew pews. Despite the advocacy of several groups of researches and investigations (most of them easily debunked) , being on the net does not give you any skill you could not develop on your own outside (and this a very important aspect of my point) and more often than not does not give you superpowers or any other kind of advantage over other people in ways of thinking.

If you want to view it in a TLDR form, being good at making sausages and organizing the next beer party at your house does not make you stand above or below anyone in the world.

Take this small post as way to encourage you to develop the skills you think you have into a real life set of assets, by doing things that will have an impact outside of the scope of this game and limited social circle.

This is in no way an attack or a troll post (even If I'm known on some circles for that) but just a friendly advice and trust it as much as you can trust any advice on the net, with a grain of salt.

Keep writing apps, but keep studying, grow, evolve, keep understanding, keep ganking and organizing in a more efficient manner, but keep growing never stay still in your belief, challenge yourself everyday to keep getting better no matter how good you think you are, because the world is a big place and it keeps going on, and no matter how much you think you have done it will never be enough.

And when you compare yourself to others and someone like me is deciding who is better (usually not understanding a single thing of what you do, but with a clear concept of a profile in mind to check) who do you think I will choose: The guy that has a series of easily verifiable jobs and certificates, degrees or diplomas or work experience in RL corporations and businesses with a tangible set of real world skills OR someone that comes full of optimism and perhaps, just perhaps, will do the job better than the other guy, but I have no real point of reference except this strange sideline in the cv that says he coded an app for an online game and says he has leaderships skills based on "virtual social interaction and ability to organize large groups of people in simulated reality?" Ugh

Cheers!

Hope you find a good job if you looking too btw, I know how hard it is sometimes. o/




Psychologist, eh?

I keep having this dream with thousands of women in robes throwing little pickles at me. What does it mean?



Depends, are they sliced pickles? And if so, what direction are they sliced? Across, lengthwise, or at an angle?

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

LLoyd Thomson
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-12-21 07:26:19 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Psychologist, eh?

I keep having this dream with thousands of women in robes throwing little pickles at me. What does it mean?


That you watch too much p0rn
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#9 - 2011-12-22 06:29:01 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:




Psychologist, eh?

I keep having this dream with thousands of women in robes throwing little pickles at me. What does it mean?




Hmmm ... hmmm ... (frowns) ... So many angles ... Big smile

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-12-23 02:36:00 UTC
To take one of the things said, about not having real consequences for decisions made in the game, I'd guess EVE is probably the one game that addresses that furthest. However, it still doesn't cause people to lose their job or business, just some more game time spent replacing whatever was lost. Unfortunately, it appears that some of our 'powerful decision makers' in life make decisions in the same mindframe as though it was without consequence, but that's another discussion.

And to revive another, the market player. If you saw that they had great success in the market *and* could iterate to you WHY they made the decisions that they did, that wouldn't at least indicate a person with ability that could translate into real life tasks? (Even if they themselves haven't thought of it that way)