Crime & Punishment

A skiff can be ganked and CODE have been doing so.

I shall help you they were ganked in Otela, some Procurers too, so there is risk in going mining in Skiffs and Procurers which blows your throw away line out of the water...

Quite, you are also safer in getting an armoured door and you have the choice to do so. If one looks closely at those Skiffs their tank was not optimal.

cant we just settle all this over a great honor brawl in pvp vargurs in rancer drunk and on comms?

i think it would be great for networking and stuff

Can I bring a drake?

Can you at least name it "Dracvlad's Vargur"?

OK, I thought you might be interested in hearing from an actual "newb", which I guess I still am after 3 months' play. This is how I feel about hi-sec, PVP, and all that, at my stage of the the game. Take it or leave it, it reflects my own experience and feelings only.

1. I absolutely assert my right to play the game any way I ****ing want, limited only by the actual mechanics of the game. If that doesn't jibe with your mental picture of the "right" way to play, tough.

2. I'm currently exploring the game in my own way, which is basically to research something, try it out, get advice if needed, try some more, then move on.

3. I tried mining and manufacturing. The idea was to mine, refine, and build, with the idea of experiencing the whole industry "path". My retriever got ganked. It was completely avoidable, it died with drones still in the bay and no GTFO destination set. Basically I froze up, despite the fact that someone had already warned me that CORE people were around. I learned a few useful things, like setting people to "red" and keeping an eye on the local chat. I was advised that a Procurer was a better choice of ship. I quit mining instead, as I had already pretty much decided that it was too boring, and didn't feel like grinding through the training for yet another ship.

3. I'm now running missions. This is more fun, but I already sense a certain boredom creeping in. Frankly, with a Vexor at level 2, it's too easy. And repetitive. I'll continue up to L4 though to get the full experience.

4. In answer to the OP, I feel your pain but I have no interest in being your target. There's a lot more to PVP than there is to PVE it seems and I don't feel confident enough to give you a good fight. Maybe if there was some expectation of equality in the combat (not safety, I get that, but even matching) I might feel differently.

5. I have (implicitly) been accused of cowardice because I don't (yet) do PVP. It's not cowardice to say that I don't want to jump into a shark infested pool equipped with only a knife. I would call it common sense. This thread has, though, given me the idea that it might be entertaining to take a cheap frigate into low-sec and see how long I can survive. I may try it. Or not :-)

6. It doesn't surprise me that people want to stay safe in EVE. The problem, as it applies to me anyway, is that the "jump" between PVE and PVP is too great. Spend a lot of time and ISK on a ship, sally forth, get pwned, rinse and repeat is not my idea of fun. Nor, as I mentioned before do I feel any responsibility to other players to provide cannon fodder for their amusement.

7. I will get to PVP, but in my own time and in my own way. I don't know what that is yet.

I have deliberately avoided offering any solutions. I wonder if my situation is common among so-called "carebears". I don't know.

Just for fun though, not too seriously, how's this for an idea? I will form a corporation of people who will hire themselves out to be killed. It'll cost you (based on overhead and a reasonable profit), but think what you get. You will be able to specify the exact ship, tank and dps within a limited menu. The pilot will fight just hard enough to give you a sense that you achieved something but will ultimately lose. You will get a message praising your skills and a hearty "GF". Alternatively, using a very low tank and dps ship, the pilot will offer no resistance at all to your attack, and if you wish simulate AFK. In this case you also get an angry message telling you that you have no right to gank and that you should be banned from the game. This may be published in any way you wish.

Admittedly the only way not to be anybody's target in Eve Online is not to log in at all.

Part of the game is to do whatever you want.

While being somebody else's target. And you need not be locked up all of the time.

What's also important to keep in mind is that how you feel about the topic does not make any difference in how you will be treated, especially on the subject of being a target (or not). But you can also keep in mind that when or if you do get targeted, it's not personal.

As for being called a coward, that was an attempt to get you to do a thing called "Honor Tanking". Chances are you don't have this trained up to at least level 4. Yes there are players who have no honor and part of their game is to make you have honor so they can point and laugh even harder.

What some people do is take Local chat and expand the character list to the point that you can hardly see what anybody is saying. Because it does not matter what anybody is saying in local, but you will want to be aware of who is in it.


As for PVP, that is, wanting it, I would suggest that you get into ASAP in any way that suits you. If you don't want to get raep-caged in nullsec (often) you can join a large nullsec alliance like Pandemic Horde or TEST. Lowsec instalock camps are common and if you are not the camper you will be the target. Look up Spectre-Fleet for that so you don't go alone and they have T1 fleet doctrines you can use as well. I highly recommend it and you'll learn the most social core aspect of this game: operating in a fleet.

Highsec PVP, on which this entire thread is about, might be a good start for a newbro and you might want to hit up some of the highsec merc groups to see if they have newbro hiring going on. Some of them do low and nullsec roams or take contracts across all kinds of space. Try to stay away from those that strictly hub-hump.

Whatever the case, keep up doing with you feel like, don't let anybody try to shame you into ending up on their killboards. Taking any and all measures not to get popped is just as acceptable as taking any and all measures to get a kill. I remember back when I used to try new things, before all you damned kids started playing on my lawn.

1. It is a sandbox with the limits of the sandbox set by CCP, there are a lot of people who insist that you have to play it their way, I play it as I want to play it and its perfectly fine that you do too.

2. Best way, there are a lot of people who will give you advice on things.

3. The Retreiver is an easy ship to gank, a Procurer is more difficult and hardly worth it to them in terms of value if you tank it right. Mining is boring to many myself included, while there are others who love the sight of their mining lasars hitting on rocks, I only mine to get stuff that I want, currently mining for a Citadel, but I am uinlikely to put one up, though the instant change clone bay interests me. Indy is painful unless you have top skills. Level 4's will get boring after a while trust me.

4. You touch on part of the issue here, I am not so sure equality is the way to put it, but a chance to get a kill, the OP appears to have a 200m SP character, though this does not mean that you will be totally outclassed if you get small ships along with all the core skills around the fitting and weapons to level 4 including the specific T2 weapons specialisations. But you will only beat him if he is not a good pilot and I would bet that he is pretty good. Early on in my Eve career I took on a Vet who did a war dec with a frigate and he did not kill me, he did kill a corp mate in a drake however. I did howeever make more than a dent in him. One aspect is that Eve combat is more about getting the drop on people then anything else, though using certain mechanics like transversal can make a major difference.

5. No you are not a coward, your attitude is correct, you want to have a chance, in truth jumping into a frigate can be fun, but you will lose a lot, but when you get that first solo kill you will like it, especially those good fights were you get the tactics right and everything works as intended. But you will see the real bad side of Eve with people blobbing you with combat recons, etc. An ex-corpmate did FW and he was pretty good at solo frigate fighting and he said he got about one good fight in ten, but sometimes it was worth it, but after a while he just kept getting blobbed and moved on and then stopped playing.

6. Safe is a relative word, for example the Goons are now ganking mission runners in and around Osmon, which is one reason I decided not to do it at this point (ignoring the current war dec), what is that prudence, common sense, some would call that cowardice, but why risk something when I have no real need to do so. But some people act as if they are safe, people auto piloting freighters or DST's or Industrial ships, it is mind boggling at times. The other day an auto piloting Occator barely survived a gank, it was noticed by AG who repped up its shields and armour then I came along and repped up its structure and then I followed it to Amarr and made sure it docked. Thats the level of stupid you can see. Play expecting aaht people are out to kill you and mitigate the risk by your actions and you will enjoy the game.

I mentioned that cannon fodder aspect myself as one of the reasons people don't fight war decs.

7. What I did was train up to a level where I thought I could be OK then moved to 0.0, I was 9 months into the game when I did that, I joined something called Hub Zero, two weeks into it it blew up in a pretty spectacular way and I found myself in a full on Eve emo war between the leader of that group and an ex-pet alliance of CVA and the people who this leader had annoyed. I operated there for 5 months doing some at times fun PvP, then joined a renter alliance where I perfected camper hunting. I really enjoyed it.

About your idea, why not set up a corp with like minded people that join in as an ally with other new bro corps that are war decced and have fun with the war dec. One bit of advice, avoid war decs with the blanket war dec groups, pick war decs by people like the OP. They can be fun if you are happy to lose ships and learn and maximise your strengths, don't forget the key part of this is to get the drop on people by setting something up, or using ships that negate the War deccers ship choice and skills. I hope more people get into this type of approach in hisec, because it can be fun. You sound like you have the right attitude to play verbally with CODE, they have such tender ego's its quite laughable at times.

I would suggest you are ready to PvP when you have the mindset to do it, so develop your training to fly a ship and its weapon system, then learn how to fly it, in terms of using its attributes, such as kiting ships or brawling ships, understand how to get more shots on them at higher damage by understanding your optimals and transversal, work out tactics to get them into your weapons optimal, that is a cruical part of the fight, in frigate fighting speed and agility are vital. In terms of 1v1 which is rare to really get at times, you need to have a repping ability, in general buffers don't work for 1v1, but buffers do work for small gang, though a well piloted repping ship can defeat a gang of buffer fit ships unless they have logi. Also look at the enemy ships to see what they are using, because fight selection is key to this but doing is fun.