Market Discussions

o7

TL;DR

I was a moron.

I'ma try to be less of a moron.

Citadel's still a go.

Why did they even bother holding the NHL playoffs without any Canadian teams in it?

Uh... hybrid turrets are boring...?

Props for admitting your own mistakes.

Hopefully, this will mean a proper dialog can start and something constructive can come out of it.

You problem is still the general concepts viability..

How will you manage competition? If with Marketing and Goodwill, how would you expect that to actually work?

Are you sure that the concept of Charity is the best way to start? Why Not something like a Newbie Citadel, where you worked with say the Angel Project regarding special offers and "loss leaders".. Things like Low skill demand gear always at competitive pricing, and servicing say All skill books, etc..

When you say Charity you implied PLEX4GOOD.. Not sure that there is a real need to boost the demand for plex for such things, and thus it becomes more about whether you would support other types more..

How are you planing on financing the Citadel, with your own money, or via angel investors? Whats your hit by bus scenario plan, what is the plan if you get grief decked?

Managing structures is a bit of a potential "steady job" and I doubt Chribba will be doing that..

What about 3rd party audit, and access to the API, will you have Chribba make that public, or are we supposed to just trust that your paying the profits to the right things?

Regarding what the profit is used for, would you be creating a clear and concise list, with how much each group etc would get percentage wise, and will you maybe let shareholders be part of voting in case you wanted to change such things?

It might be a good idea to TOTALLY remove the idea of funding wars or ingame political sides, or you generally contradict the neutral and charity aspect of the project..

I was never opposing your idea, I just find it highly unlikely to succeed, because your only USP, (Unique selling point) is the Charity "brand".. Not something I believe a lot of people would chose your Citadel for over say a more used and seeded one..

Maybe a much better Idea would be to build the concept as a Marketing and event based concept you can collaborate with other Citadel owners, or Entities about?

You throwing 25b for a large, or 200b for an XL, will take a bit of time to break even.. So maybe at least come up with a rough estimate budget.. Without it you just risk throwing a lot of isk and time after a project that might never sail!

Using the names Chribba and Angelica is all good and well, but they may be successful as brands, but that does not make them experts in how new markets with Citadels work and will develop..

If nothing else make sure to show that you actually have considered practical operations and know enough about the risk and rewards of Citadels regarding Markets, because not even those following it closely are fully sure where things will end..

Thanks for posting constructively. It's OK that you fight for your project, but my principle concerns regarding a charity citadel still stand.

Your citadel will enter the highly competitive area of in-game market PvP (and maybe combat PvP), with half a dozen of Fortizars already participating in the race to the bottom (fee). If your project wants to be successful, you need to grab a substantial share and generate a positive cash flow ... how you will do that, what is the value you can offer?

And right here I see the big problem, the only value you have to sell is out-of-game moral superiority. In your case, this means you have to create a permanent out-of-game moral shield around your citadel to rival your competition with lower fees and avoid eventual destruction. Not doing so means your project is pointless. Charity-driven activities should have an exceptional, very limited and carefully gated place in a video game like EvE.

The concept of a permanent charity citadel has IMO no place in EvE.

Hi Termerity,

Thanks for the update; I too hope we can now move forward, with purpose.

Perhaps you and your team would consider writing a full proposal in the form:

Background
Proposal
Financing
Known/acknowledged issues

That's very rough top-of-my-head, and could surely be improved upon, but I'm sure you see what I'm aiming at. If we're all reading the same 'document' (on EVE-O and on Reddit), there will be less uncertainty about what precisely is being proposed, and by whom.

The discussion in the threads will hopefully inform whatever debates you and your team have, and you can then update your proposal accordingly.

It's not a guarantee of success; I for one still have major reservations about the project - as it currently stands, but I'm willing to hold fire to give you all a chance to put out something with more flesh on the poor bones.

Many of us are rather passionate about this game of ours; sometimes it leads to high-octane forum PvP. The passion is just an indication of how much we care - as, of course, do you.

Has anyone got a link to Chribba actually confirming his involvement?

All I've seen is the OP repeatedly making that claim without backing it up.

Nevermind found it.

They don't call me SpaceMom for nuthin'! Good on you for stepping up to look for a better way forward with everyone but especially those who are asking hard questions about the project. We all sometimes get in the way of our own good intentions...it's how you recover the fumbles that matters.

Somewhere do I recall you were going to get in touch with CCP about the potential financial impacts on CCP related to potentially high levels of PLEX4GOOD donations that this project might conceivably cause? Have you connected with anyone there yet and has there been any feedback from them on the matter?