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Marauder Capacitor balance -SOLVED
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Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#1 - 2016-05-31 08:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie McPewpew
Ok, so as it currently stands the paladin is capable of having 11718.75GJ for 750secs at max skills which puts it at the top when it comes to cap warfare for marauders. The issue with this is that other marauders have to compromise between fitting damage application mods or cap mods in PVE whereas the paladin can devote most of its utility slots to cap mods while still hitting comfortably to distant ranges and tanking just as much as the others. While this issue isn't obvious in highsec, it's fairly obvious in wh space where these ships are stretched to their limits in PVE and the paladin is the #1 choice 95% of the time. It's that bad.

My proposal is simple, give the other marauders better base capacitor recharge time than that of the paladin. The paladin still manages to be better thanks to its capacitor amount bonus and available utility slots but the others aren't terrible to use for high end wh PVE.

Other thing to consider would be to give the golem a bonus to missile guidance computers as well as target painters.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2016-05-31 08:48:45 UTC
.... but it does need to select damage or cap with the crystals it uses. also the kronos is in no better a position.

while not as well balanced as blops they are in a pretty good spot with one another


and the golem should not be given a bonus to MGC it is not the same as a tp

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#3 - 2016-05-31 09:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie McPewpew
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
.... but it does need to select damage or cap with the crystals it uses. also the kronos is in no better a position.

while not as well balanced as blops they are in a pretty good spot with one another


and the golem should not be given a bonus to MGC it is not the same as a tp

The paladin has no problem with cap even when using conflag and while it's locked to a certain damage type, it's certainly not an issue that manifests itself in high end wh PVE as sleepers have similar resists all through.

Cap boosters are far more common in PVP so this doesn't affect that aspect of the game much. What this affects is high end PVE which is what marauders were made for and, currently, there is absolutely no reason to fly any other marauder other than a paladin until a cap balance is made.

You can check the majority of marauder kills in wh space and I can assure you the paladin makes up for 90% of all of them.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#4 - 2016-05-31 09:05:28 UTC
They could just buff sleeper rat EM/thermal resistance.

A signature :o
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2016-05-31 09:07:59 UTC
capacitor is a racial advantage all amarr ships have similar to the scan res of minmatar and the sensors of caldari. these things can cause on ship to do better than others in certain areas. Just because in wh PvP 1 marauders to do better than the others is not a reason to upset the balance.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#6 - 2016-05-31 09:25:21 UTC


What specifically can't you do in the other marauders that you can in a paladin?
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#7 - 2016-05-31 09:45:38 UTC
Jessie McPewpew wrote:
Ok, so as it currently stands the paladin is capable of having 11718.75GJ for 750secs at max skills which puts it at the top when it comes to cap warfare for marauders....


Capacitor has nothing to do with warfare, electronic warfare or mining operations. It is a magic wand for the weak.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#8 - 2016-05-31 15:15:22 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
They could just buff sleeper rat EM/thermal resistance.

This renders other amarr ships that are better balanced in their class useless.
Cyrus Tybalt
Blap n Pew
#9 - 2016-05-31 15:58:20 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:


What specifically can't you do in the other marauders that you can in a paladin?


Wondering the same thing.

I had no problems tanking damage or dealing damage against sleeper rats in a Vargur.
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#10 - 2016-05-31 16:36:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie McPewpew
[quote=Serendipity Lost]

What specifically can't you do in the other marauders that you can do in the paladin?[quote].

Compared to other battleship classes, the marauder class has the amarr ship having better base capacitor and recharge rate. Other races tend to have equal or lower capacitor recharge rate compared to the amarr variant which tends to have a higher base cap mount.

In tbe case of marauders, This allows the paladin to be decent while the others struggle a lot, especially with really heavy neuting by sleepers, despite the paladins much heavier cap usage. It's not a huge change, it just allows other marauders to perform at an acceptable level for a marauder in highend wh PVE while the paladin still reigns supreme in cap management as it should be.

This allows for more flexibility in ship choices for highend wh pvp. All marauders should excel at highend PVE. This is what they are made for but at the moment only the paladin performs acceptably hence why it's used the most.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#11 - 2016-05-31 16:48:33 UTC
Hang on, you are complaining about cap in tge same class as the vauger andbthe golem ... That dont need cap -at all- ...

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ran Dimaloun
Order and Prosperity
#12 - 2016-05-31 17:08:32 UTC
Paladins are supposed to be top of the line vessels, and remember, this is amarr. Lasers + active rep + prop mod eats a TON of cap. They are in no way unbalanced since all you can ever deal is em/thermal, as with most amarr ships. And increasing em/thermal resistance of rats would simply make turn them into harmless tanks. Not a huge fan of the idea.
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#13 - 2016-05-31 17:10:10 UTC
Please, refrain from commenting if you havent flown all 4 marauders in highend wh PVE.
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#14 - 2016-05-31 17:19:12 UTC
Ran Dimaloun wrote:
Paladins are supposed to be top of the line vessels, and remember, this is amarr. Lasers + active rep + prop mod eats a TON of cap. They are in no way unbalanced since all you can ever deal is em/thermal, as with most amarr ships. And increasing em/thermal resistance of rats would simply make turn them into harmless tanks. Not a huge fan of the idea.

Im not refering to highsec PVE where rats deal puny damage or low class wh PVE. The original post states highend wh PVE. Please, read.
Ran Dimaloun
Order and Prosperity
#15 - 2016-05-31 17:26:05 UTC
Jessie McPewpew wrote:

Im not refering to highsec PVE where rats deal puny damage or low class wh PVE. The original post states highend wh PVE. Please, read.


Still, why would you take away the advantage of one ship over another in a certain field? It's like wanting to give beams more alpha damage so that you don't only see tornados ganking, but oracles aswell.
Cyrus Tybalt
Blap n Pew
#16 - 2016-05-31 17:47:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyrus Tybalt
Jessie McPewpew wrote:
[quote=Serendipity Lost]

What specifically can't you do in the other marauders that you can do in the paladin?[quote].

Compared to other battleship classes, the marauder class has the amarr ship having better base capacitor and recharge rate. Other races tend to have equal or lower capacitor recharge rate compared to the amarr variant which tends to have a higher base cap mount.

In tbe case of marauders, This allows the paladin to be decent while the others struggle a lot, especially with really heavy neuting by sleepers, despite the paladins much heavier cap usage. It's not a huge change, it just allows other marauders to perform at an acceptable level for a marauder in highend wh PVE while the paladin still reigns supreme in cap management as it should be.

This allows for more flexibility in ship choices for highend wh pvp. All marauders should excel at highend PVE. This is what they are made for but at the moment only the paladin performs acceptably hence why it's used the most.


Does it look like this Vargur is "struggling"?

http://youtu.be/KbN4RY1vHvM

Seems to me that you're simply not fitting your other Marauders right, if you feel that they're "struggling" against neut sleepers.
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#17 - 2016-05-31 18:26:40 UTC
Cyrus Tybalt wrote:
Jessie McPewpew wrote:
[quote=Serendipity Lost]

What specifically can't you do in the other marauders that you can do in the paladin?[quote].

Compared to other battleship classes, the marauder class has the amarr ship having better base capacitor and recharge rate. Other races tend to have equal or lower capacitor recharge rate compared to the amarr variant which tends to have a higher base cap mount.

In tbe case of marauders, This allows the paladin to be decent while the others struggle a lot, especially with really heavy neuting by sleepers, despite the paladins much heavier cap usage. It's not a huge change, it just allows other marauders to perform at an acceptable level for a marauder in highend wh PVE while the paladin still reigns supreme in cap management as it should be.

This allows for more flexibility in ship choices for highend wh pvp. All marauders should excel at highend PVE. This is what they are made for but at the moment only the paladin performs acceptably hence why it's used the most.


Does it look like this Vargur is "struggling"?

http://youtu.be/KbN4RY1vHvM

Seems to me that you're simply not fitting your other Marauders right, if you feel that they're "struggling" against neut sleepers.

C4 is not high end PVE. All marauders can run in C4 holes even with negative wormhole effects to their tank. Properly fit pirate battleships will breeze through it as well. This is not the same for C5s, the neuting forces other rauders to fit more cap mods when their damage application is already worse. The paladin is not phased by any of this understandably but a little tweak goes a long way in helping other rauders compete.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#18 - 2016-05-31 18:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
Jessie McPewpew wrote:
Ok, so as it currently stands the paladin is capable of having 11718.75GJ for 750secs at max skills which puts it at the top when it comes to cap warfare for marauders. The issue with this is that other marauders have to compromise between fitting damage application mods or cap mods in PVE whereas the paladin can devote most of its utility slots to cap mods while still hitting comfortably to distant ranges and tanking just as much as the others. While this issue isn't obvious in highsec, it's fairly obvious in wh space where these ships are stretched to their limits in PVE and the paladin is the #1 choice 95% of the time. It's that bad.

My proposal is simple, give the other marauders better base capacitor recharge time than that of the paladin. The paladin still manages to be better thanks to its capacitor amount bonus and available utility slots but the others aren't terrible to use for high end wh PVE.

Other thing to consider would be to give the golem a bonus to missile guidance computers as well as target painters.

Jessie McPewpew wrote:
Please, refrain from commenting if you havent flown all 4 marauders in highend wh PVE.


The reason they have more cap is because they use 3 times more cap than gallante each time they fire their weapons. Minmatar and caldari use 0 cap to fire weapons. You can run minmatar and caldari ships as "cap careless" and thus unaffected by nuets. Despite what you may think nueting a paladin can put it into trouble very quickly as it can pretty much all amarr ships.

PS: you should learn basic game mechanics before you post things like the second quote.
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#19 - 2016-05-31 19:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie McPewpew
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Jessie McPewpew wrote:
Ok, so as it currently stands the paladin is capable of having 11718.75GJ for 750secs at max skills which puts it at the top when it comes to cap warfare for marauders. The issue with this is that other marauders have to compromise between fitting damage application mods or cap mods in PVE whereas the paladin can devote most of its utility slots to cap mods while still hitting comfortably to distant ranges and tanking just as much as the others. While this issue isn't obvious in highsec, it's fairly obvious in wh space where these ships are stretched to their limits in PVE and the paladin is the #1 choice 95% of the time. It's that bad.

My proposal is simple, give the other marauders better base capacitor recharge time than that of the paladin. The paladin still manages to be better thanks to its capacitor amount bonus and available utility slots but the others aren't terrible to use for high end wh PVE.

Other thing to consider would be to give the golem a bonus to missile guidance computers as well as target painters.

Jessie McPewpew wrote:
Please, refrain from commenting if you havent flown all 4 marauders in highend wh PVE.


The reason they have more cap is because they use 3 times more cap than gallante each time they fire their weapons. Minmatar and caldari use 0 cap to fire weapons. You can run minmatar and caldari ships as "cap careless" and thus unaffected by nuets. Despite what you may think nueting a paladin can put it into trouble very quickly as it can pretty much all amarr ships.

PS: you should learn basic game mechanics before you post things like the second quote.

I understand clearly why the Paladin has more capacitor amount but in the case of marauders, the paladin is still far and away more cap stable than the other marauders can ever be even when firing conflag and tanking. The paladin has enough to do its job in highend PVE while the others do not.

As I said earlier, it's not a huge change but it brings the other marauders inline by the smallest of margins. The paladin still manages to have 3800 more GJ than the golem and vargur, and 3000GJ more than the kronos but the capacitor recharge rate will all be the same and maybe lower for the kronos since its weapons require capacitor but not that much. That is my proposal and not a nerf to the paladin that is the only decent one.

Also, I'm pretty sure, I said high end PVE not PVP. This change doesn't affect that since most will be using cap boosters regardless.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#20 - 2016-05-31 19:43:49 UTC
Quote:
I understand clearly why the Paladin has more capacitor amount but in the case of marauders, the paladin is still far and away more cap stable...


Quote:
the paladin is still far and away more cap stable...


Quote:
cap stable...


I think I have found the problem.

OP... have you considered that maybe you shouldn't make a ship "cap stable?"
Or that some ships sre not exactly designed around being cap stable?
Or that some ships have no need to be cap stable?

I mean... hell... the Vargur and Golem both have access to weapons and tanking mods that don't use any capacitor power (if timed right).

How did you Veterans start?
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