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The future of solo/small gang pvp
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Davian Thule Pirkibo
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#1 - 2016-05-30 23:37:20 UTC
With the release of big mikers video, he demonstrates the power of his naglfar. Should eve allow such powerful ships into the small gang meta like this? Should their essentially be small gang pwnmobiles to engage blobs?
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#2 - 2016-05-31 00:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
These 'death of small gang' threads are getting silly....

First of all try flying the Naglfar which he was using and see what happens, you'll probably die quickly without killing much.

Also if you watch the video he posted carefully in most of those fights he actually loses more than he kills, and in some of them a lot more.

The Naglfar fit he is using is over 5.5 Bil. I don't think in any of the fights he killed over 5.5 Bils worth in return, and I think he lost the Naglfar in every fight except one.

I took the video as good entertainment, but certainly not something your going to see cropping up in the PvP meta.
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
#3 - 2016-05-31 05:56:26 UTC
T3D and the ******** carriers are what's slowly killing off soloing.
I don't think anyone is concerned about a sudden burst in solo-dread pvp.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Walextheone
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-05-31 08:16:03 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
T3D and the ******** carriers are what's slowly killing off soloing.
I don't think anyone is concerned about a sudden burst in solo-dread pvp.


Yeah! The fast locking carriers are the new cancer.
Hilarious to see them as the new insta lockers at gates.

Together with their high alpha strikes they feel really broken. Ofc they can still die to blobs etc
But before a PvE fitted carrier where bad in pvp.

Now PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much the same.
If they only where balanced so they where more situational good...
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#5 - 2016-05-31 08:25:52 UTC
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
With the release of big mikers video, he demonstrates the power of his naglfar. Should eve allow such powerful ships into the small gang meta like this? Should their essentially be small gang pwnmobiles to engage blobs?


the thing with these videos, they dont really show when and how many they lose before making the perfect video. he has lost 4 of them which is enough to buy a super.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#6 - 2016-05-31 08:26:16 UTC
It is bemusing that actually changing carriers to be useful for something other than logi or bait is causing so much hate and discontent.

So carriers are dangerous to subcaps now. They are still very killable.

Adapt...or keep up the whining in these endlessly repeating forum threads...

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#7 - 2016-05-31 08:44:47 UTC
Walextheone wrote:
Now PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much the same.
If they only where balanced so they where more situational good...

If they are pretty much the same, treat everyone as PvP and you will be good. Last time I checked everyone was talking its a PvP game?

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-05-31 09:05:31 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
T3D and the ******** carriers are what's slowly killing off soloing.
I don't think anyone is concerned about a sudden burst in solo-dread pvp.

Oh, so now it's this that's killing off solo.

There are always complaints that solo id dead/dying and yet solo continues to happen every day.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Fat Buddah
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-05-31 09:33:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Fat Buddah
EVE PvP is more about engineering your fights such that you have a good chance of winning.
Most often this involves having patience, avoiding undesirable engagements, and catching smaller/weaker opponents by surprise whenever possible.
Of course this is a two way game, so almost always one of the two engaging party is wishing he was not at the receiving end of the space pew pew.

Things likely to happen are likely to happen.
When I'm betting on the 00 in roulette, I don't expect the winning chance to be 'fair' and be 50%. Same with the PvP. When my solo ship or my small gang is helplessly destroyed, it is because I have gone against the odds, or my opponent has better utilised his resources such that he has better chance of killing my spaceship.
Walextheone
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-05-31 10:44:54 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Walextheone wrote:
Now PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much the same.
If they only where balanced so they where more situational good...

If they are pretty much the same, treat everyone as PvP and you will be good. Last time I checked everyone was talking its a PvP game?


Well ofc but that's missing the point completly.
Every ship in the game have weak sides and strong sides.
Now carriers have very few weaknessses and together with game mechanics that takes no skill to apply dps.


Most ships takes a lot of micro management and proper skills to handle.

Some examples:
Active tankers, low buffer ships, oversized prop ships, medium range weapon that you need to keep transversal down to apply dps, nano ships that need to be in that perfect 1 5- 22k range etc etc.

Carrier on the other hand It's bascially Instalock -> Profit

They need a component that balance their really strong sides.
Erebus Vain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-05-31 11:38:46 UTC
Fat Buddah wrote:
EVE PvP is more about engineering your fights such that you have a good chance of winning.
Most often this involves having patience, avoiding undesirable engagements, and catching smaller/weaker opponents by surprise whenever possible.
Of course this is a two way game, so almost always one of the two engaging party is wishing he was not at the receiving end of the space pew pew.

Things likely to happen are likely to happen.
When I'm betting on the 00 in roulette, I don't expect the winning chance to be 'fair' and be 50%. Same with the PvP. When my solo ship or my small gang is helplessly destroyed, it is because I have gone against the odds, or my opponent has better utilised his resources such that he has better chance of killing my spaceship.


Engineering fights seems to be the key for sure. It reminds me of a John Steinbeck quote, "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
Fat Buddah
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-05-31 12:00:28 UTC
Walextheone wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Walextheone wrote:
Now PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much the same.
If they only where balanced so they where more situational good...

If they are pretty much the same, treat everyone as PvP and you will be good. Last time I checked everyone was talking its a PvP game?


Well ofc but that's missing the point completly.
Every ship in the game have weak sides and strong sides.
Now carriers have very few weaknessses and together with game mechanics that takes no skill to apply dps.


Most ships takes a lot of micro management and proper skills to handle.

Some examples:
Active tankers, low buffer ships, oversized prop ships, medium range weapon that you need to keep transversal down to apply dps, nano ships that need to be in that perfect 1 5- 22k range etc etc.

Carrier on the other hand It's bascially Instalock -> Profit

They need a component that balance their really strong sides.


That's because we are talking about a Billion ISK capital ship with massive dps and tank that outweigh any solo subcapital flying skill. In other words, the pilot has committed a large chunk of his resources in order not to deal with petty optimal and transversal management, and why should he not be rewarded for the commitment he has made?
If you wanna solo fight a capital ship commit your own capital or give up the stupid idea and bring lots of friends to tip the balance in your favour. It's that simple.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#13 - 2016-05-31 12:09:58 UTC
Fat Buddah wrote:
Walextheone wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Walextheone wrote:
Now PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much the same.
If they only where balanced so they where more situational good...

If they are pretty much the same, treat everyone as PvP and you will be good. Last time I checked everyone was talking its a PvP game?


Well ofc but that's missing the point completly.
Every ship in the game have weak sides and strong sides.
Now carriers have very few weaknessses and together with game mechanics that takes no skill to apply dps.


Most ships takes a lot of micro management and proper skills to handle.

Some examples:
Active tankers, low buffer ships, oversized prop ships, medium range weapon that you need to keep transversal down to apply dps, nano ships that need to be in that perfect 1 5- 22k range etc etc.

Carrier on the other hand It's bascially Instalock -> Profit

They need a component that balance their really strong sides.


That's because we are talking about a Billion ISK capital ship with massive dps and tank that outweigh any solo subcapital flying skill.


Are you talking about actual pilot skill or skills you train in the game?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-05-31 19:49:14 UTC
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
With the release of big mikers video, he demonstrates the power of his naglfar. Should eve allow such powerful ships into the small gang meta like this? Should their essentially be small gang pwnmobiles to engage blobs?
A small gang could easily opt to not engage dreads and carriers. Over the weekend CAS was roaming through lowsec with a few cruisers and destroyers and while sitting on the Vey gate in Frarie a Hel supercarrier comes into us via the gate, yellow boxes us, then before we can react deploys fighters and alphas an Algos. We all go through the gate, the Algos pilot reships, and we have a nice fight against IVY in Harroule a few jumps later. Lesson learned, no big deal, we simply won't hang around on gate with a supercarrier nearby. If we had seen this Nagl during our roam we certainly would have given it a go - and if we all died, oh well, that's EVE, lesson learned, don't engage dreads doing 1000 m/s with a few cruisers and other small ships. They're easy to avoid.
Galaxxis
The Regency
The Monarchy
#15 - 2016-05-31 22:08:41 UTC
Oh look, another one of these.
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#16 - 2016-05-31 22:39:37 UTC
Galaxxis wrote:
Oh look, another one of these.

most are ***** fests, i dont think the carrier is op, a falcon or 2 literally ends its dps into oblivion, and it cant tackle while using an nsa
TackyTachy1
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-06-01 02:34:44 UTC
I was mining in lo-sec, three Skiffs (MultiBoxer) when a Vexor showed up. Hey, I said to myself, I got lotsa drones, lets kill a Vexor, forgetting what should be branded on my ass with a real hot iron: Eve hunters never hunt alone. We mixed it up, it was cool, then a carrier showed up and it was game over real quick. I did other stupid stuff, lost more stuff but that was pretty well the first mistake. I don't know about killing all this other stuff but it didn't take that long to kill me (x3).

Forum Rep for a bunch of characters, couple corps and one seriously Lost In Space multiboxer.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#18 - 2016-06-01 02:44:15 UTC
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
With the release of big mikers video, he demonstrates the power of his naglfar. Should eve allow such powerful ships into the small gang meta like this? Should their essentially be small gang pwnmobiles to engage blobs?

Yes. It is hardly going to chase you down if you don't choose to fight it.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#19 - 2016-06-01 08:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sitting Bull Lakota
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
With the release of big mikers video, he demonstrates the power of his naglfar. Should eve allow such powerful ships into the small gang meta like this? Should their essentially be small gang pwnmobiles to engage blobs?

I'd like to think that most players view use of capitals as escalations that should be met with escalation or at least a tactic change. It's shameful to believe a kitey cruiser/t3d gang can engage and disengage on a whim without consequence or difficulty.
BNI recently lost a carrier to a rather well laid trap.
BNI also took down one of Big Mikers's Nags. At a 3b isk difference, if I'm reading the battle report correctly. Caps are quite far from solopwnmobile status at the moment. They're just less likely to be mistaken for defensless loot piñatas now.

Can anyone crunch some numbers for me and see if there is a correlation between "Carriers are killing pvp" and "Offgrid boosts aren't a problem." I am curious if those comments tend to originate from the same players.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#20 - 2016-06-01 08:43:14 UTC
its cool because i havent seen this many capitals out in space before, never even heard of a solo dread, what an awesome time to be alive. Big smile

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
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