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Security status: gain and loss
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nandodean
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-19 12:14:19 UTC  |  Edited by: nandodean
Hi. I just wanted to say that the gaining and losing of security status is completely disproportionated. I'm refering in LOW sec, not high. I understand that killing a ship on high sec should impact hardly on your sec status.

But... When you kill a ship in low sec, you loose 2% more or less of the sec status you had. And each rat can give us between 0,1-0,2 gain. That means that killing a pirate on low sec requires HOURS OF KILLING RATS IN BELTS!! That's not worthy! Yeah, I know youll say go to null sec. But I'm starting pvp and dont want to go thru null sec space.

Discuss
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2011-12-19 17:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
loss/gain of sec status uses the same maths.

new standing = old standing + ((10 - old standing) * % change)

What that means is, if you have positive standing, you'll generally lose more than you gain (even if you lose 0.5% and kill a rat that raises you 0.05% -- which is usually what they seem to do), especially the closer to +10 you are. Conversely, if you're negative and kill rats, you GAIN more standing than you lose.

Let's say you had 2.00.

0.5% standing loss is then
NS = 2 + ((-10 - 2.00) * 0.005)
NS = 2 + (-0.06)
NS = 1.94

0.5% standings gain is then
NS = 2 + ((10 -2) * 0.005)
NS = 2 + 0.04
NS = 2.04

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-12-21 18:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
Velicitia wrote:
loss/gain of sec status uses the same maths.

new standing = old standing + ((10 - old standing) * % change)

What that means is, if you have positive standing, you'll generally lose more than you gain (even if you lose 0.5% and kill a rat that raises you 0.05% -- which is usually what they seem to do), especially the closer to +10 you are. Conversely, if you're negative and kill rats, you GAIN more standing than you lose.

Let's say you had 2.00.

0.5% standing loss is then
NS = 2 + ((-10 - 2.00) * 0.005)
NS = 2 + (-0.06)
NS = 1.94

0.5% standings gain is then
NS = 2 + ((10 -2) * 0.005)
NS = 2 + 0.04
NS = 2.04


and vice-verse, when You have -2, You loose slower than gain.

edit: I fail at reading again, You pretty much stated that in text, I just glanced at calculations :P


nandodean wrote:
Hi. I just wanted to say that the gaining and losing of security status is completely disproportionated. I'm refering in LOW sec, not high. I understand that killing a ship on high sec should impact hardly on your sec status.

But... When you kill a ship in low sec, you loose 2% more or less of the sec status you had. And each rat can give us between 0,1-0,2 gain. That means that killing a pirate on low sec requires HOURS OF KILLING RATS IN BELTS!! That's not worthy! Yeah, I know youll say go to null sec. But I'm starting pvp and dont want to go thru null sec space.

Discuss


What that mean is, at some point, You will loose less standing from PVP than gain from rats, however at this point You might no longer be permitted to enter Hi at all :)

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#4 - 2011-12-22 15:03:33 UTC
I think the problem is the actual % gains and losses you get. Even when you are at 0 security you kill one frigate in pvp and you have to kill a whole bunch of rat bses to make up for it.

This causes allot of problems for low sec corps that want to pvp.

I think there should be no sec status hits in low sec systems. Keep the gate/station guns and gcc (although 15 minutes is ridiculous - make it like 5 minutes or something) If you want to be a flashy pirate you need to do some high sec suicide ganks.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
nandodean
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-12-22 19:37:02 UTC
that's what I'm talking about, cearain...
Ashra Tesh
Click Red
#6 - 2012-01-04 09:07:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashra Tesh
Um, what?

If you're killing frigate rats, that's probably why it'd take you hours to get it back. You want to be killing rat BATTLESHIPS, and you want to be killing them in multiple systems every bounty tick! Each time the bounty timer ticks off (20 minutes or so) You get a sec status boost based on the highest value rat killed in each system you've killed a rat in, during the last cycle. So for example, if you kill a rat in four different systems in that 20 minutes (Which is really quite slow of a pace) You'd gain 4 smaller ticks adding up to a decent security status gain, every cycle. Hell, even if you kill a single ship, then go kill a cruiser rat at a belt before you dock up/go to a safespot for GCC, your security status will barely go down at all after the bounty tick and your gcc is gone. Unless of course you pod them, then your security status will go down hilariously fast and ratting to get it back up will definitely take a while if you keep podding people. Though, if you want to pod people, just go to a null system close to lowsec, you won't lose sec status that way :)

I mean sure, your sec status will still be going down if you rat, but if you want to be a lowsec pvp alliance/corp/whatever you need to expect that you need to take breaks to rat (If you want to go back into hisec on that character) which requires some discipline and people who can resist going "OMG +1 IN SYSTEM MUST FIND AND KEEL" You can spend an hour or two klling then an couple hours ratting it back, it's all about balance and as someone who hangs out in lowsec for most of their PVP, I don't really have a problem being able to go back into hisec with most of my characters.. Usually :)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#7 - 2012-01-05 15:38:02 UTC
Ashra Tesh wrote:
Um, what?

.... Though, if you want to pod people, just go to a null system close to lowsec, you won't lose sec status that way :)

I mean sure, your sec status will still be going down if you rat, but if you want to be a lowsec pvp alliance/corp/whatever you need to expect that you need to take breaks to rat (If you want to go back into hisec on that character) which requires some discipline and people who can resist going "OMG +1 IN SYSTEM MUST FIND AND KEEL" You can spend an hour or two klling then an couple hours ratting it back, it's all about balance and as someone who hangs out in lowsec for most of their PVP, I don't really have a problem being able to go back into hisec with most of my characters.. Usually :)



You are right about killing rats etc. I guess my view is pvp takes long enough to find in this game so you shouldn't have to pass up targets. Also dealing with null sec bubbled gates isn't a great answer for me.

BTW here is a good proposal to change the sec status hits:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=42987&find=unread

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815