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Eve forums vs r/eve
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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#21 - 2016-05-22 07:13:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I would counter this view with:

- Grath Telkein
- Elise Randolph
- Rixx Javixx
- Apothne
- Chribba
- Gorski Car
- Jayne Fillion
- many former and current CSMs (In addtion to those already mentioned)
Listing a bunch of people that post on reddit doesn't change it (especially when you're posting people like Rixx who couldn't give a crap about the uniqueness of EVE as long as he's cutting a paycheck). Reddit has no subscription limitation so many of the people posting there aren't even EVE players, or are bitter ex-EVE players. The fact that ii's basically unmoderated (beyond the downvote to oblivion thing) also attracts the players who can't form a sentence without lobbing in foul language and personal attacks.

Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
i see people being told to go kill themselves on redit and have done for years.
**** that community.

Do you think reddit is one community?
No, reddit is a platform! Boom!

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Freedom of speech includes the rights of the majority to silence the opinion of the minority.

Just existing doesn't make you special.
While true, doing so also kills off diversity of opinion making the entire point of it's existence moot. If the only opinions being allowed to be voiced are ones that are in line with the core group, then that's the only opinion you'll ever get no matter it's validity.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#22 - 2016-05-22 07:32:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Lucas Kell wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I would counter this view with:

- Grath Telkein
- Elise Randolph
- Rixx Javixx
- Apothne
- Chribba
- Gorski Car
- Jayne Fillion
- many former and current CSMs (In addtion to those already mentioned)
Listing a bunch of people that post on reddit doesn't change it (especially when you're posting people like Rixx who couldn't give a crap about the uniqueness of EVE as long as he's cutting a paycheck).

I don't believe I claimed it changed it, just that the claim that people on r/eve tend to not care about the personality of Eve, because the community there agrees with the changes being made by CCP, isn't necessarily true.

You post there occasionally and I'd add you straight up in that list of people who you couldn't say, they don't care for the personality of Eve. The list isn't short. There are a lot of people known here in the forum that post on r/eve, so the list above could go very long. That was just a quick example that runs counter to the suggestion that was made.

None of which changes the fact that r/eve aren't changing the game. CCP are. So if there's going to be butthurt over changes, then surely the butthurt should be directed at CCP first, rather than "r/eve so terrible. They don't care about the personality of the game because they agree with CCP". Pretty petty really.

So whinge and ***** and moan all you like. That won't change it either.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#23 - 2016-05-22 08:03:04 UTC
I've been posting here for years, and I've only recently started visiting reddit. Tbh, reddit is just a better experience. There, the worst posters get a kind of social penalty for constantly posting bullshit, here the best you can do is use a very poor ignore function. And there is more freedom and less moderation.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#24 - 2016-05-22 08:05:12 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
Anyone who posts a negative opinion to the way the game is headed on Reddit gets downvoted to oblivion. That is why you won't see such posts, and it also makes others reluctant to post their honest opinion.


But that mean that there are more readers down voting them than readers up voting them. So the majority of those that vote appreciate the idea. I.e. the majorly on reddit like it, like the OP said.
Hawke Frost
#25 - 2016-05-22 08:07:51 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
Anyone who posts a negative opinion to the way the game is headed on Reddit gets downvoted to oblivion. That is why you won't see such posts, and it also makes others reluctant to post their honest opinion.


But that mean that there are more readers down voting them than readers up voting them. So the majority of those that vote appreciate the idea. I.e. the majorly on reddit like it, like the OP said.


According to your logic Trump will be a great president.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#26 - 2016-05-22 08:20:11 UTC
Hawke Frost wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
Anyone who posts a negative opinion to the way the game is headed on Reddit gets downvoted to oblivion. That is why you won't see such posts, and it also makes others reluctant to post their honest opinion.


But that mean that there are more readers down voting them than readers up voting them. So the majority of those that vote appreciate the idea. I.e. the majorly on reddit like it, like the OP said.


According to your logic Trump will be a great president.


No, according to my logic if Trump get the majority of votes he become the president.
Hawke Frost
#27 - 2016-05-22 08:28:52 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Hawke Frost wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
Anyone who posts a negative opinion to the way the game is headed on Reddit gets downvoted to oblivion. That is why you won't see such posts, and it also makes others reluctant to post their honest opinion.


But that mean that there are more readers down voting them than readers up voting them. So the majority of those that vote appreciate the idea. I.e. the majorly on reddit like it, like the OP said.


According to your logic Trump will be a great president.


No, according to my logic if Trump get the majority of votes he become the president.


But would that be a good thing, would a majority vote be the right decision, the right solution?
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#28 - 2016-05-22 08:42:57 UTC
Hawke Frost wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Hawke Frost wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
Anyone who posts a negative opinion to the way the game is headed on Reddit gets downvoted to oblivion. That is why you won't see such posts, and it also makes others reluctant to post their honest opinion.


But that mean that there are more readers down voting them than readers up voting them. So the majority of those that vote appreciate the idea. I.e. the majorly on reddit like it, like the OP said.


According to your logic Trump will be a great president.


No, according to my logic if Trump get the majority of votes he become the president.


But would that be a good thing, would a majority vote be the right decision, the right solution?


It is called democracy, you know. The right of the masses to make what I feel are stupid decision.
They should follow my benevolent dictatorship as I know everything better than anyone.
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#29 - 2016-05-22 08:46:38 UTC
At one time the majority believed the moon was made from green cheese,
and that we were all gonna die tomorrow (2000 years ago).

BOYCOTT REDDIT!!

Never forget their Boston Marathon bomber bomb-out


Stick with the real EVE Forum EVEN YOU TRAITOROUS DEVS OUT THERE.

Or go kiss Mittani's hindparts.

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Hawke Frost
#30 - 2016-05-22 08:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hawke Frost
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
It is called democracy, you know. The right of the masses to make what I feel are stupid decision.
They should follow my benevolent dictatorship as I know everything better than anyone.


So you admit that the majority has a habit of making dumb decisions, it's how we got Bieber, all the other ****** "musicians" and stupid people who got famous for uhm... yeah. The system is inherently flawed partly due to stupidity and trolling, but in case of EVE there's also the issue of how dumb game changes which hurt the game long term give short term benefits to the ones "voting".

Given all that, why should the "majority vote is cool yo" concept be a good thing and one of the main reasons why Reddit is better than this forum?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#31 - 2016-05-22 09:44:11 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Snagletooth Scott wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
Anyone who posts a negative opinion to the way the game is headed on Reddit gets downvoted to oblivion. That is why you won't see such posts, and it also makes others reluctant to post their honest opinion.


Aah, Reddit. Where Free Speech goes to die.


Freedom of speech includes the rights of the majority to silence the opinion of the minority.

Just existing doesn't make you special.


right and that's why NK has free speech the majority just silences all those who disagree with their glorious leader Roll

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#32 - 2016-05-22 09:45:51 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
Anyone who posts a negative opinion to the way the game is headed on Reddit gets downvoted to oblivion. That is why you won't see such posts, and it also makes others reluctant to post their honest opinion.


But that mean that there are more readers down voting them than readers up voting them. So the majority of those that vote appreciate the idea. I.e. the majorly on reddit like it, like the OP said.


no because some one is far more likly to take the time to down vote what they don't like than upvote what they do

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#33 - 2016-05-22 10:07:29 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

no because some one is far more likly to take the time to down vote what they don't like than upvote what they do

Thank you for given us a view into how you think, but please don't extrapolate it unto other people though. I am not far more likely to downvote than upvote. As you don't back it up with evidence, it is hard to take serious.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#34 - 2016-05-22 10:07:47 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no because some one is far more likly to take the time to down vote what they don't like than upvote what they do

Where are you getting this from, especially in relation to Reddit?
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#35 - 2016-05-22 10:10:28 UTC
Hawke Frost wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
It is called democracy, you know. The right of the masses to make what I feel are stupid decision.
They should follow my benevolent dictatorship as I know everything better than anyone.


So you admit that the majority has a habit of making dumb decisions, it's how we got Bieber, all the other ****** "musicians" and stupid people who got famous for uhm... yeah. The system is inherently flawed partly due to stupidity and trolling, but in case of EVE there's also the issue of how dumb game changes which hurt the game long term give short term benefits to the ones "voting".

Given all that, why should the "majority vote is cool yo" concept be a good thing and one of the main reasons why Reddit is better than this forum?




You know, the main voting we do is with our wallet, by subscribing or cancelling our subscription.

And your opinion is irrelevant as it isn't mine and mine is the only one that count. Roll

Yes, there is a lot of people that like what are lousy musicians for me, but if we use that metric we wouldn't have Rock as initially "people that know it better" disliked it. And probably we can go back in time and make that argument for anything.

So adapt, and if it is unacceptable vote with your wallet. That is the only vote that really matter.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#36 - 2016-05-22 10:13:08 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

no because some one is far more likly to take the time to down vote what they don't like than upvote what they do

Thank you for given us a view into how you think, but please don't extrapolate it unto other people though. I am not far more likely to downvote than upvote. As you don't back it up with evidence, it is hard to take serious.


So far I have put 3 like, 1 dislike in reddit. So my empirical evidence is that we have a 3:1 majority of likes to dislikes.
It is a scientific analysis TwistedBlink
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2016-05-22 10:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Hawke Frost wrote:

So you admit that the majority has a habit of making dumb decisions, it's how we got Bieber, all the other ****** "musicians" and stupid people who got famous for uhm... yeah. The system is inherently flawed partly due to stupidity and trolling, but in case of EVE there's also the issue of how dumb game changes which hurt the game long term give short term benefits to the ones "voting".

Given all that, why should the "majority vote is cool yo" concept be a good thing and one of the main reasons why Reddit is better than this forum?


Because when it affects the majority, it is only fair that the majority decides what happens. Even if it is stupid. As far as I know you still have the right to be stupid. And let us be honest despite your huff and puff, you don't know more about what is good for EVE than everyone else. You might think you do, due to the human condition, but only implementing things and letting them run for some time and then evaluate the effect will tell you the real effect the change had. Not you guessing how a change will affect EVE, and then presenting it as the truth.

r/EVE is better IMO due to the downvoting of negative complain threads. And if I wanted negativity I know some RL people who love complaining about backpains and unemployment, who are stuck in a negativity spiral, like most posters on these forums. In my spare time I don't want to read 1200 reply whine threads with only 20-100 participants exchanging the same arguments over and over. So i appreciate the the funny memes and light mood of r/eve over this pit of negativity on most days. Even if not everyone can bring through their opinion, as it is entertainment and not congress.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-05-22 10:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:


So far I have put 3 like, 1 dislike in reddit. So my empirical evidence is that we have a 3:1 majority of likes to dislikes.
It is a scientific analysis TwistedBlink


This made me smile Big smile perhaps not all hope is lost for these forums after all

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#39 - 2016-05-22 10:39:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I've been posting here for years, and I've only recently started visiting reddit. Tbh, reddit is just a better experience. There, the worst posters get a kind of social penalty for constantly posting bullshit, here the best you can do is use a very poor ignore function. And there is more freedom and less moderation.



Except "bullshit" actually means any unpopular opinion. If someone posts something contrary to the widely accepted opinion it gets downvoted into oblivion. The entire thing just breeds an environment where everyone says the same thing regardless of whether or not it's actually true and there's no critical thinking involved at all.

It's pretty much the system I've ever seen a "discussion" site.

You get more varied, rational discussion on 4chan than reddit.
Hawke Frost
#40 - 2016-05-22 10:42:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Hawke Frost
sero Hita wrote:
Hawke Frost wrote:

So you admit that the majority has a habit of making dumb decisions, it's how we got Bieber, all the other ****** "musicians" and stupid people who got famous for uhm... yeah. The system is inherently flawed partly due to stupidity and trolling, but in case of EVE there's also the issue of how dumb game changes which hurt the game long term give short term benefits to the ones "voting".

Given all that, why should the "majority vote is cool yo" concept be a good thing and one of the main reasons why Reddit is better than this forum?


Because when it affects the majority, it is only fair that the majority decides what happens. Even if it is stupid. As far as I know you still have the right to be stupid. And let us be honest despite your huff and puff, you don't know more about what is good for EVE than everyone else. You might think you do, due to the human condition, but only implementing things and letting them run for some time and then evaluate the effect will tell you the real effect the change had. Not you guessing how a change will affect EVE, and then presenting it as the truth.

r/EVE is better IMO due to the downvoting of negative complain threads. And if I wanted negativity I know some RL people who love complaining about backpains and unemployment, who are stuck in a negativity spiral, like most posters on these forums. I an my spare time I don't want to read 1200 reply whine threads with only 20-100 participants exchanging the same arguments over and over. So i appreciate the the funny memes and light mood of r/eve over this pit of negativity on most days. Even if not everyone can bring through their opinion, as it is entertainment and not congress.


Unpopular views is not necessarily the same as "whine threads". Lets go back to my initial example: everyone gets 30 mil extra skill points and 10 free titans.

Given the average... person we can be pretty sure that if CCP would voice this idea on reddit that a vast majority would be ok with it because in their short term interest it's a good idea. What are the chances a post going "this is a dumb idea for so many reasons", explaining the issues, would get down voted to hell?

We can also be sure that there'd be more in favour of the idea on Reddit than on this forum percentage wise, for all the reasons explained above. I'm not saying Reddit is bad, I'm not saying this forum is good. I AM saying that "reddit is better because of down votes" too simplistic and in fact dangerous because unpopular views aren't necessarily bad views. I could add a Godwin but that would be too obvious.