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Nerf carriers.
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Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#81 - 2016-05-24 16:05:38 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Terquil wrote:
Zathra Narazi wrote:
Terquil wrote:
True, but the OP wants a nerf because he got killed by a CARRIER. ALONE. IN A T1 FRIG. WITH BAD FITTING.

No I don't. Learn to read. I currently own 36 frigates. I donated an additional 14 of them to the corp to hand out to newbies a couple of days ago. I don't give the slightest trace of a f*** about losing them. I haven't complained at all about any of my other losses. It's not about dying. I legitimately think they're overpowered and have capabilities they shouldn't have.


I die all the time. I die to all kinds of stuff. Because I'm in the wrong ship, wrong setup, wrong fleet, whatever.

Eve is a game which developes over MONTHS and YEARS. A cry for a nerf shorty after an update is not the way to go in Eve. It's just whining. mimimimimi they are so op, nerf em.

Take your time, work out a meta against 'em and after several months when everyone says nerf carriers because noone can kill 'em THEN you have the right to call for it.



The problem is not that they cannot die, they die rather easily. Its that they basicely negate the grid for anything bar a full fledged fleet, a carrier is insurable, cheap and has the power of multiple pirate BS at once. Its just to strong at what it does. Its basicely a super blops right now.

Theres carriers everywhere right now.


Don't worry, faction capitals are coming. Soon you too will be able to fly carriers and have some bling with it. And an insurance that doesn't make up for the fit.


Now, what i don't get: The era of n+1 capital warfare is gone, at least on carriers. Noone can now drop Carriers and spidertank until the end of days. Sure, spidering is still possible, but not in those absurd and ludicrous amounts.
And when you take away from Carriers what made them so unbelievable OP in the first place - insane reps, EHP and almost unlimited dronebay to fight off subcaps - you'd end up with a shipclass that is absolute garbage. So, they were given something in return. Io and behold, a single carrier is now capable to defend it self! To some extent.

It's strength: Fighter squadrons apply very well on subcaps!
It's weakness: It can launch what, 12 Squads total before it's a dead body floating in space? And those Squads aren't even tanky! All they do is facefuck you when you're within 10km of them. If you can't counterplay that, then you're obviously not very good at this game.

Gone the days where a solo NOmen could kill a Carrier, man, those times won't be ******* missed.

Where were the outcries about balancing when literally a shitfit kitchensink fleet could wreck through a Carrier, which was worth multiple Pirate BS Hulls, in a matter of minutes?
Hemmo Paskiainen
#82 - 2016-05-24 18:22:28 UTC
Adrienne Cesaille wrote:
It is an interesting scenario, Once upon a time the Battleship was king, there was no sig on ship, whacking frigates with Large Turrets was pretty simple and so frigates where noob mobiles serving no point in the game once you could get out of them.

Years later CCP decides this is a bad idea. That the sole ruling king of the battlefield the battleship was to much and that frigates and cruisers should have a place. The counter arguement was that battleships cost exponentially more isk and training time, this is derided and slammed aside by the bulk of the player base so here comes Sig and lock times. No more insta locking frigates and blapping em as if they where npc ships. Few more tweaks later and a wolf pack of frigs was a rather dangerous thing for the BS

Now here's citadel, CCP buffs up carriers and now they don't have a lot to fear from sub caps. The best counter is bring another cap to kill the cap. The arguement that carriers should be able to do this? cost and training time.. Something ridiculed years and years ago as a foolish game design mechanic...

Kind of Ironic that CCP is recreating their mistakes with battleships on capitals, its not AS bad as the battleship scenario but it's up there


Yah all the old timers know that ccp has a habbit of not learning of previous mistakes. It is kinda silly.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
Making it impossible for an interceptor to hold down a carrier until help arrives is probably bad for pvp. It makes the 'gate of 100 bubbles' too strong. It's getting too easy to just bubble up a pipe or side spur of systems and carrier rat risk free in null.

Between the changes to the watch list and carriers being able to insta wonk sub capitals CCP is sending a clear message they don't want anyone hunting capital ships with anything but luck and cynos.
ccp need prob more subs, so instead as with dominion, buffing anoms, their working around it like this. Same result, so expect plex raise in 4 months by 20%.

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Trace Kel'le
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2016-05-24 19:33:20 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Netan MalDoran wrote:
I dont really have a problem about the power of the new carriers, seems reasonable.
What I DO have a problem with is that Network Sensor Array, caps shouldnt be able to instalock tiny things!

I don't know where this insta-lock originated. The Network Sensor Array is night and day to be sure, but it still takes a few seconds to lock frigates and drones.


I picked up the BPO for the networked sensor array. $$$ for the bpo and $$$ for the book for the training to build it. Ive sold 5 of them so far.
aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#84 - 2016-05-24 19:48:01 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Making it impossible for an interceptor to hold down a carrier until help arrives is probably bad for pvp. It makes the 'gate of 100 bubbles' too strong. It's getting too easy to just bubble up a pipe or side spur of systems and carrier rat risk free in null.

Between the changes to the watch list and carriers being able to insta wonk sub capitals CCP is sending a clear message they don't want anyone hunting capital ships with anything but luck and cynos.


Was a t1 frig, not an interceptor. I suspect if it had been an interceptor and was in close orbit the outcome may have been different, well you would have neuts and smarties to worry about.
But there should be no good reason why a lone t1 frig should be able to hold down a larger ship indefinately
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#85 - 2016-05-25 07:58:26 UTC
aldhura wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Making it impossible for an interceptor to hold down a carrier until help arrives is probably bad for pvp. It makes the 'gate of 100 bubbles' too strong. It's getting too easy to just bubble up a pipe or side spur of systems and carrier rat risk free in null.

Between the changes to the watch list and carriers being able to insta wonk sub capitals CCP is sending a clear message they don't want anyone hunting capital ships with anything but luck and cynos.


Was a t1 frig, not an interceptor. I suspect if it had been an interceptor and was in close orbit the outcome may have been different, well you would have neuts and smarties to worry about.
But there should be no good reason why a lone t1 frig should be able to hold down a larger ship indefinately


Because thats the idea of eve? That big stuff isnt better by default. Take a vindicator, a ceptor can hold down that ship for quite some time, same with the nighmare or even the mach. But against one of the slowest biggest ships in eve it just dies if not links and rred?

Thats not good game design.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#86 - 2016-05-25 10:58:12 UTC
Done some EFT with chimera
locking time on default frig (all V):
without NSA - 27,4 s
with NSA - 2,8 s
cruiser
without - 17s
with - 1,7
kinda fast

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2016-05-25 12:22:12 UTC
Yea, they've gone slightly overboard with the Networked Sensor. Core idea is good, the number is a bit steep.
Anthar Thebess
#88 - 2016-05-25 12:37:35 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Done some EFT with chimera
locking time on default frig (all V):
without NSA - 27,4 s
with NSA - 2,8 s
cruiser
without - 17s
with - 1,7
kinda fast


Remember that fighters need to lock you up after the command.
If you are fast :
1 tick lock
2 nd tick give command to fighters, fighters lock
So in 3rd tick fighters will start to approach you and use build in modules.

Instant hic need 1 tick to lock you and infinite point you.
Yes this is huge change - i don't deny it.

People who love big toys come back to game, and carrier need a lot of fighter modules to be dangerous.
Modules that can be fitted only when you limit your tank.

Ratting carriers and gate camps?
Use black ops and bombers, you will lose 2-3 bombers in the process but what is wrong in losing 2-3 bombers during capital kill ?
People who hunt ratting carriers simply want to have old easy targets that you could kill in frigates without losing any of them.


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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#89 - 2016-05-25 12:47:20 UTC
Well it's a carrier. It's suppose to be big bi*** with huge firepower. The fit I'm working on already has 300k shield with at least 60% resists. How many bombers to get that? Where is the drawbacks? paper mache fighters?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#90 - 2016-05-25 13:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
People in frigates bitching? Means carriers work as intended.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Trace Kel'le
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2016-05-25 14:32:05 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Yea, they've gone slightly overboard with the Networked Sensor. Core idea is good, the number is a bit steep.


Sell as many as I can before It gets nerfed ;-)
Phynix Kautsuo
Pure Avarice.
Rote Kapelle
#92 - 2016-05-26 02:13:38 UTC
I don't understand why people think a T1 frigate should be able to hold down a capital ship - that's dumb. Why should a capital ship lose to the smallest fish in the pond?

It's equivalent to saying a small patrol boat should be able to hold down an aircraft carrier.

That being said, the NSAs do need a bit of a nerf, they're too strong. 5s for frigates should be the benchmark imho.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#93 - 2016-05-26 23:16:10 UTC
Phynix Kautsuo wrote:
I don't understand why people think a T1 frigate should be able to hold down a capital ship - that's dumb. Why should a capital ship lose to the smallest fish in the pond?

It's equivalent to saying a small patrol boat should be able to hold down an aircraft carrier.

That being said, the NSAs do need a bit of a nerf, they're too strong. 5s for frigates should be the benchmark imho.


Then you'd also have to put in limitations to sensor boosters, cause if you nerf the NSA people will just fit a SeBo and be fine again. Would be a stealth shield carrier nerf tbh.
Anthar Thebess
#94 - 2016-05-27 11:25:32 UTC
Like someone pointed out already - tackling a ratting carrier should have it risks, but it also should be possible.,
In order to do it, you need to use proper ships, and accept loses.

Killing carrier for a cost of 2-3 interceptors and dictors is totally acceptable.
I know that many people dislike idea of getting any loses - but thankfully meta have changed and i don't want any one in CCP to change something.
Eve is all about ships fighting and dying.


Carriers are not invincible !
You will sustain loses but you can also EASILY COUNTER THEM.

2 griffins are almost guarantee 100% constant jam on fighters.
Yes! You need 2 ships that cost 3mil to counter a 2bil ship.

Carriers are fine - fighters are strong, but people already found a way to counter them easily.



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Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#95 - 2016-05-28 02:11:09 UTC
Carriers are definitely overpowered right now. 3M ehp, locking frigs in under 2 seconds, more dps than high angle gun dreads, massive alpha, incredible application (i lost a linked, snaked Ares that was being repped by a Scythe to a Nidhoggur lol), can fight from really far range while aligned etc.

It's just ridiculous as it is right now.
Anthar Thebess
#96 - 2016-05-28 13:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Dato Koppla wrote:
Carriers are definitely overpowered right now. 3M ehp, locking frigs in under 2 seconds, more dps than high angle gun dreads, massive alpha, incredible application (i lost a linked, snaked Ares that was being repped by a Scythe to a Nidhoggur lol), can fight from really far range while aligned etc.

It's just ridiculous as it is right now.

You forgot to add that they can be disabled by a single jamming ship.
I just tested this with friend and for 15 minutes i was able to keep fighters disabled using a single rook.
I just jammed them each time he launched a wing - remember to fit a sebo, and i never missed a single jam.

I was 70km away from him, fighters where not able to get to me before getting a jam.

Change tactics.
Don't fly something that don't have EHP near carrier.

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Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#97 - 2016-05-29 02:55:00 UTC
Oh come on people, stop lamenting, they're just bigger Ishtars, with bigger drones and insta locking speed that can alpha most of the subcaps on grid.
You loved them, you cried when they got nerfed and now they're back; bigger, longer and uncute.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#98 - 2016-05-30 17:12:58 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Carriers are definitely overpowered right now. 3M ehp, locking frigs in under 2 seconds, more dps than high angle gun dreads, massive alpha, incredible application (i lost a linked, snaked Ares that was being repped by a Scythe to a Nidhoggur lol), can fight from really far range while aligned etc.

It's just ridiculous as it is right now.

You forgot to add that they can be disabled by a single jamming ship.
I just tested this with friend and for 15 minutes i was able to keep fighters disabled using a single rook.
I just jammed them each time he launched a wing - remember to fit a sebo, and i never missed a single jam.

I was 70km away from him, fighters where not able to get to me before getting a jam.

Change tactics.
Don't fly something that don't have EHP near carrier.


If the answer to anything in this game ever is bring ecm then there is a problem. Being forced to roam with ecm is ********.
Tonnik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2016-05-31 13:31:57 UTC
Eve has always been an "adapt or die" game. So... adapt or die, ppl.
Anthar Thebess
#100 - 2016-05-31 14:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
[quote=Anthar Thebess]
If the answer to anything in this game ever is bring ecm then there is a problem. Being forced to roam with ecm is ********.

Who force you to use this jams on other players?
Use them on fighters - simple and cheap solution.
Fitted blackbird cost 15mil and can be used by a newbie enjoying your roams.
Carrier require 2bil investment and few times more skill points than a blackbird.

Whole point is that you don't need to bring any ECM ship with you, ECM is needed only for getting easy carrier kills.

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