These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Old Camera To Be Retired With The 118.5 Release On May 31st!

First post
Author
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-05-18 00:32:23 UTC
Are you going to fix the dscan/tracking functionality that has been broken by the new camera ?


- When using the tracking camera with dscan bound to a key/mouse.
In the old camera - When I selected an object and pressed dscan it would track to the object and initiate a scan when the camera had orientated to the object.
With the new camera.. once i press the dscan bind it does a scan immediately and then tracks to the selected object. meaning I need to press dscan twice ! This is very annoying when doing 5 /15 degree dscans to find ships at moons/pocos/gates.

- the scan cone occasionally doesn't line up with bookmarks/anons etc in space when using the radial menu dscan function. So instead of dscan anom/BM I end up dscaning a random spot in space. I can tell its dscaning the wrong thing because the scan cone is pointing in entirely the wrong direction.

I think both these issues are result of the same problem : the simultaneous tracking and dscan have issues with the new camera. Please fix these before getting rid of old camera.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Moxy Algaert
Abusive Tax Shelters
#22 - 2016-05-18 01:22:59 UTC
The new camera is...awful. This is awful. I really wish I wouldn't have renewed my subs and wasn't sitting on so many PLEX. Sad Refunds? plz
Oxigun
Halliburton Heavy Industries
Sixth Empire
#23 - 2016-05-18 02:57:02 UTC
I don't know is this is camera related or map related but can you please stop the camera from moving when you start warp in a new system and are looking at the map? For some reason the map starts bobbing/twisting around as if there a camera attached to it when you warp....
Josef Djugashvilis
#24 - 2016-05-18 05:20:54 UTC
CCP - we have ways of making you like the new camera, we are going to remove the old one.

Dear CCP, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

This is not a signature.

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-05-18 05:22:04 UTC
Moxy Algaert wrote:
The new camera is...awful. This is awful. I really wish I wouldn't have renewed my subs and wasn't sitting on so many PLEX. Sad Refunds? plz



Fortunately there is a solution to that surplus plex problem... Im willing to ease your burden. Please contract all your PLEX to helana Tsero in Jita.

I wont even charge a service fee. Bear

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Moxy Algaert
Abusive Tax Shelters
#26 - 2016-05-18 05:25:58 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
Moxy Algaert wrote:
The new camera is...awful. This is awful. I really wish I wouldn't have renewed my subs and wasn't sitting on so many PLEX. Sad Refunds? plz



Fortunately there is a solution to that surplus plex problem... Im willing to ease your burden. Please contract all your PLEX to helana Tsero in Jita.

I wont even charge a service fee. Bear


or..I could just sit on them and hope CCP designs a tolerable camera someday. Thanks for the offer though. P
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#27 - 2016-05-18 05:51:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Caldari 5
Scotsman Howard wrote:
New camera works well. The only thing I have not been able to figure out is if the old "right click and pan" feature is either not present or is different now.

This, and stop detaching the camera from my ship everytime I right click to bring up a menu.

Jaxley wrote:
Vertical sensitivity is still lower than horizontal for no apparent reason.

^this, It's very annoying.

Helene Fidard wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
could you make the ctrl+mousewheel thing a keybinding? because i tried to unbind it but it is not under shortcuts, or at least i could not find it after a extensive search.

it happens often to me that i accidentally change the FOV while trying to lock targets with ctrl click.

At the very least, don't forcibly bind it to control. Control is too important.

This explains the other glitches I hadn't pinned down, thankyou.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#28 - 2016-05-18 15:03:39 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
It should do. There are a couple of known issues at the moment with it for instance the zoom is not correct, but we are working on getting them sorted, and look forward to your bug reports and feedback once it goes live on sisi.

I'll keep my eye on the thread and such then - am moving cross-country and will be without a eve-friendly computer for a bit but will go play with it soon as I have the ability.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Aaron Eyrou
Cannon Ball In The Pool
#29 - 2016-05-18 17:50:26 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:


With just 5.5% of the community now utilizing the old camera system, we feel that the new system is ready to take over all your spaceship viewing needs. .



That is because the new camera is forced on us and most may not know they can go back to the old one in the ESC menu
SoulLess Zealot
Khaedra's Law
#30 - 2016-05-18 18:23:59 UTC  |  Edited by: SoulLess Zealot
Not sure if 5.5 % is true or not , virtually all the guys i know use the old camera and none of us want the new one.



i think you should keep the old as an option .. you know like forever ..
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#31 - 2016-05-18 20:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
So, may the 31st is the last day that i undock to pvp in eve.

Still some major issues for me with the new camera.

Firstly, the camera is the primary input method for manually piloting. The new camera vertical rotation speed is 3-4 times more sluggish than its horizontal speed. This is undesirable since im just as likely to fly up and down as i am left and right.

For example, i literally just this second took a fight in my garmur vs 8 ceptors. To maintain point and keep on a target while all the other ceptors were trying to box me in, i had to fly over and under their group multiple times since the station was on the horizontal plane.

I refuse to accept, that just because you have overpolished your new camera, that on may 31st im just going to be measurably worse at manually piloting.

Secondly, the zoom is still horrible. Its far too fast with my ratchetless mouse, and has a brief moment when you start scrolling where it doesnt scroll at all before it kicks in and starts scrolling far too fast.

When i provide input, i want there to be a response from the client. I dont want to be slipping around on 'polish' and fighting the camera to do things that are easier with the old camera. I dont want to have to move my mouse 3-4 times further to look up and down, i dont want to have to fight my scroll wheel when the zoom sends me in and out at an irregular rate due to a delayed response that quickly changes to a rapid acceleration.

This are two fundamental aspects of controlling this game. While the new camera is not unplayable for most, why are you happy with a new camera that is functionally less effective at a couple of its most fundamental jobs? Im not happy.

The 5% number seems very dishonest. My anecdotal experience here is that literally every pilot that i consider to have any skill at pvp is using the old camera. Sure, there are some who do PI, who just joing large fleets and do no small gang nano pvp who dont care either way since they only anchor up for the most part. But please consider the opinions of people who put a higher demand on the old camera.

Instead of counting the number of accounts that have the new camera (which will no doubt include countless alts, non pvp and characters that never undock), you should compile a list of active pvpers over the last 3 months who participate in small gang pvp. I wouldnt be surprised if those numbers were not almost entirely reversed.

CCPLZ - The new camera is NEARLY THERE. Please dont stop short when it could become *AS GOOD AS THE OLD CAMERA* with the addition of a couple of menu options to tweek speeds/sensitivity/acceleration of panning and zoom.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#32 - 2016-05-18 22:24:38 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

With just 5.5% of the community now utilizing the old camera system,


Thats 5.5% of the active player base i assume.

That 5.5% probably represents a MUCH larger proportion of your active PvPers.

And lets not forget thats 5.5% of people who, every singe patch, choose to go back into their settings and swap it back to the old camera.
Helene Fidard
CTRL-Q
#33 - 2016-05-18 22:37:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Helene Fidard
I still hate the FOV scroll entirely but I think I've narrowed down the source of my space-sickness a bit:

At the maximum FOV, when I hold ctrl and scroll up the FOV decreases to its minimum, but when I continue to scroll up past that point, the camera moves away normally. The end result is this uncomfortable dolly zoom effect.

I think it would help if the FOV hotkey* prevented normal camera scrolling while it was held.

(*please make this a thing)

Hey! I don't know about you

but I'm joining CTRL-Q

Aaron Eyrou
Cannon Ball In The Pool
#34 - 2016-05-19 01:02:53 UTC
Aaron Eyrou wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:


With just 5.5% of the community now utilizing the old camera system, we feel that the new system is ready to take over all your spaceship viewing needs. .



That is because the new camera is forced on us and most may not know they can go back to the old one in the ESC menu



Also you had a bug that caused the new camera functions to bleed onto the old camera which is the only reason I started using the new camera. I got tired of hitting ESC, checking the new camera, unchecking it and closing the menu every time I used a gate.

I just logged into all my characters unchecked the new camera and undocked. Hopefully the bug is fixed. I reset all my characters camera to where I want the target and my ship to be instead of your new camera deciding for me. Maybe your stupid 5.5% will go up. If everyone did this maybe you would see the true number of people that hate this new camera.

I'm so sick of fighting your new camera. As I see it I only have 3 choices one of which you plan to take away from me. 1st use old camera. 2nd use new camera with my target being covered by my ship. 3rd use new camera with my ship disappearing off screen.

This new camera may be the reason I quit EVE, way to go CCP.

Perhaps creating a survey that ask if we like the new camera or prefer the old one. And send everyone an email both in game and out with a link to the survey. You would get a better number than what you currently are basing it on.
Moxy Algaert
Abusive Tax Shelters
#35 - 2016-05-19 02:48:51 UTC
Aaron Eyrou wrote:

Also you had a bug that caused the new camera functions to bleed onto the old camera which is the only reason I started using the new camera. I got tired of hitting ESC, checking the new camera, unchecking it and closing the menu every time I used a gate.


Ya. I stopped logging in at all. So irritating I'd rather not play.
SoulLess Zealot
Khaedra's Law
#36 - 2016-05-19 04:46:52 UTC  |  Edited by: SoulLess Zealot
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
So, may the 31st is the last day that i undock to pvp in eve.

Still some major issues for me with the new camera.

Firstly, the camera is the primary input method for manually piloting. The new camera vertical rotation speed is 3-4 times more sluggish than its horizontal speed. This is undesirable since im just as likely to fly up and down as i am left and right.

For example, i literally just this second took a fight in my garmur vs 8 ceptors. To maintain point and keep on a target while all the other ceptors were trying to box me in, i had to fly over and under their group multiple times since the station was on the horizontal plane.

I refuse to accept, that just because you have overpolished your new camera, that on may 31st im just going to be measurably worse at manually piloting.

Secondly, the zoom is still horrible. Its far too fast with my ratchetless mouse, and has a brief moment when you start scrolling where it doesnt scroll at all before it kicks in and starts scrolling far too fast.

When i provide input, i want there to be a response from the client. I dont want to be slipping around on 'polish' and fighting the camera to do things that are easier with the old camera. I dont want to have to move my mouse 3-4 times further to look up and down, i dont want to have to fight my scroll wheel when the zoom sends me in and out at an irregular rate due to a delayed response that quickly changes to a rapid acceleration.

This are two fundamental aspects of controlling this game. While the new camera is not unplayable for most, why are you happy with a new camera that is functionally less effective at a couple of its most fundamental jobs? Im not happy.

The 5% number seems very dishonest. My anecdotal experience here is that literally every pilot that i consider to have any skill at pvp is using the old camera. Sure, there are some who do PI, who just joing large fleets and do no small gang nano pvp who dont care either way since they only anchor up for the most part. But please consider the opinions of people who put a higher demand on the old camera.

Instead of counting the number of accounts that have the new camera (which will no doubt include countless alts, non pvp and characters that never undock), you should compile a list of active pvpers over the last 3 months who participate in small gang pvp. I wouldnt be surprised if those numbers were not almost entirely reversed.

CCPLZ - The new camera is NEARLY THERE. Please dont stop short when it could become *AS GOOD AS THE OLD CAMERA* with the addition of a couple of menu options to tweek speeds/sensitivity/acceleration of panning and zoom.


couldn't agree more


**also wanted to add not sure if tracking camera was fixed, i logged on earlier and it seemed to not be. i still needed to press "c" to center on stuff i highlighted (clicked on) Wtf where is my tracking camera????????????????

second i didnt play with it to much as its annoying enough your forcing a failed project on me but , i remember the last time i played with it if i zoomed out in the orbit cam it automatically put me into the ? tactical cam? idk the zoomed out one. that is super annoying and that needs to not be the case
Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc.
Rogue Caldari Union
#37 - 2016-05-19 04:52:14 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:


With just 5.5% of the community now utilizing the old camera system, we feel that the new system is ready to take over all your spaceship viewing needs



I feel I have a few problems with this statement. First of all, the fact that you guys are quoting metrics feels like you are validating your decision. Clearly there is something wrong in that alone. If you want to force this change then just do it, telling the people that are still using it that they are a minority isn't going to make them feel any better about it. Secondly, lets not pretend that those metrics aren't skewed. If the old camera was on by default I doubt you would have more than 5.5% of people willingly switching to the new camera. Regardless of that point, you have isolated a percentage of the population that do have a vested interest in the camera issue for what that is worth.

Lastly, the new system is not taking over all of my spaceship viewing needs. As has been pointed out by several people in this thread, the new camera is in fact not a straight upgrade to the old camera. I simply do not understand why the new camera cannot incorporate all of the functionality of the old product. Making something new and different is not equivalent to an upgrade. Core functionality should me maintained unless it is the intention of CCP to fundamentally alter the functionality of the camera.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2016-05-19 08:49:26 UTC
Gotta throw my 0.02 ISK worth of opinion in here as well.

I agree with most of the other posters here, don't believe that only 5.5% of the community is using the old camera system. I mainly do PvE and I use the old camera. Same thing with the Map, scanning, etc.

Don't know why you guys constantly insist on messing with stuff that work's just fine and in the process of doing so usually end up breaking it. Then you give us the middle finger and quickly push it into the game, claiming it's a long asked for change that will greatly enhance the gameplay.

Meanwhile tons of other stuff in game still needs to be fixed which you guys constantly ignore. I'm sorry but there comes a point in time when enough is enough. Now is that time. Stop reinventing the wheel and start working on fixing the axle.



DMC
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#39 - 2016-05-19 09:02:53 UTC
Torei Dutalis wrote:
[quote=CCP Falcon]

With just 5.5% of the community now utilizing the old camera system, we feel that the new system is ready to take over all your spaceship viewing needs



Using the same metrics as the "majority" of people who where pro skill injectors ,I see.

CCP spin best spin.
Lena Kunzi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2016-05-19 10:59:45 UTC
I reverted back to the old camera because I couldn't figure out how to set up the new camera like the old, an there's a comfortable 45 degree angle or so with the old camera auto tracking. Idk I guess I'll have to figure out more how to use it that way. o/