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Anti-Interdiction Nuliffication System

Author
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#61 - 2016-05-19 22:52:09 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:

You do realise that your not meant to be able to stop all frigs right? Everything has its speciality, and a counter, if you remove interdiction nullification you must give a buff to Ceptors in another area,


is this a self backing argument? That we cant stop them right now is exactly the topic here and worst game design. like others pointed out already.


Can you explain why its bad game design ? Lets rethink the question, why is it bad that they can do it? What do they hurt in the game? You havent actually presented that other then you simply dont get easy kills.
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#62 - 2016-05-19 23:01:29 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
because bringing up a battleship for hunting interceptors an incredibly stupid idea, please stop.


sitting on a gate cloaked like a sabre is hardly huntingRoll


what if I said, the sabre is not cloaked and even moving?
Stop making empty assumptions. It also could be a hic, or another interceptor camping an anchorable bubble, or hac, or a caracal, maybe assault frigate or pirate faction frigate. Yet bubble nullification negates all those sorts of dangers.

You do realise that your not meant to be able to stop all frigs right? Everything has its speciality, and a counter, if you remove interdiction nullification you must give a buff to Ceptors in another area,



I'm missing something here. When they gave the nullification buff to interceptors.... remind me again of what they took away.

Since they didn't remove anything when giving the buff, per your above rules the nullification buff should be... nullified. You're making an 'empty assumption' that nerfs and buffs are balanced. In this case there was no balance.


TLDR you're argument makes no sense - SPECIFICALLY when talking about interceptors that got a nullification buff w/ no corresponding nerf. (picture yourself painted into a corner holding a brush and bucket of paint)




oh, and a self backing argument doesnt fall under any logical fallacy, unless you want to make up new rules on the fly for your argument's deficits.

Now, if i remember correctly the interdiction nullification buff arrived before the full introduction of tiercide, when the simultaneous buff nerf dynamic came about. And you also make it as if i said ccp always follows this?, even though i didn't.
Also, the slowest ship being able to defeat the fastest? i think thats great considering how many people complain about not being able to use that ship class so often.

(Imagine slipping on your own bullcrap after talking out of your ass)
Iain Cariaba
#63 - 2016-05-19 23:04:12 UTC
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:

You do realise that your not meant to be able to stop all frigs right? Everything has its speciality, and a counter, if you remove interdiction nullification you must give a buff to Ceptors in another area,


is this a self backing argument? That we cant stop them right now is exactly the topic here and worst game design. like others pointed out already.


Can you explain why its bad game design ? Lets rethink the question, why is it bad that they can do it? What do they hurt in the game? You havent actually presented that other then you simply dont get easy kills.

That's the sole reason, honestly.

Interceptors, specifically the travel fit ones they really want to stop, are extremely squishy and often are carrying high value pods. Sometimes they're often caught carrying blueprints, sleeper loot out of wormholes, even PLEX. The fact that they can't catch these and pad their killboards/wallets really irks them, so it must end.
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#64 - 2016-05-19 23:08:45 UTC
So in other words "waaaaaaaaa, i cant shut down peoples travel easy enough, waaaaaaaaaaaa"
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#65 - 2016-05-20 07:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:

You do realise that your not meant to be able to stop all frigs right? Everything has its speciality, and a counter, if you remove interdiction nullification you must give a buff to Ceptors in another area,


is this a self backing argument? That we cant stop them right now is exactly the topic here and worst game design. like others pointed out already.


Can you explain why its bad game design ? Lets rethink the question, why is it bad that they can do it? What do they hurt in the game? You havent actually presented that other then you simply dont get easy kills.


because moving with 99.9% safety doesnt seem to fit into the philosophy of dark and dangerous place called w-space or 0.0, where you should be able to move from A to B just by pressing the jump button x times and ignoring pretty much everything in your way. You dont even need to watch your screen properly, just click jump, jump, jump... etc

Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:

oh, and a self backing argument doesnt fall under any logical fallacy, unless you want to make up new rules on the fly for your argument's deficits.


no, its just not an argument, its a statement. A bad one.


I many regions, interceptors make 90% of all traffic, next to noob ships or pods - solely for their safety characteristics - people wanna move safely in supposed to be dangerous environment.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2016-05-20 13:02:27 UTC
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:




oh, and a self backing argument doesnt fall under any logical fallacy, unless you want to make up new rules on the fly for your argument's deficits.

Now, if i remember correctly the interdiction nullification buff arrived before the full introduction of tiercide, when the simultaneous buff nerf dynamic came about. And you also make it as if i said ccp always follows this?, even though i didn't.
Also, the slowest ship being able to defeat the fastest? i think thats great considering how many people complain about not being able to use that ship class so often.

(Imagine slipping on your own bullcrap after talking out of your ass)


There were never any dynamics of simultaneous nerf and buff unless CCP felt a change needed to be balanced against itself at the very same time. This has nothing to do with tiericide. CCP just decide what they think buffs and nerf should be and if they are required or not. They could flat out make interceptors not be immune to interdiction sphere and no rules would be broken at all.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#67 - 2016-05-20 13:54:09 UTC
Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
So in other words "waaaaaaaaa, i cant shut down peoples travel easy enough, waaaaaaaaaaaa"



I think on a more mature tac.....


It's not really in the spirit of the risk reward concept that travelling through 'dangerous' space poses no real danger to someone utilizing a properly fit inty. It's not about an inty getting past me or anyone else specifically. It's about eve losing it's core ethos. When I first started eve null and LS were dangerous. If you lived and SURVIVED in null / LS you could conduct your eve life with a certain earned swagger.

Part of the game as a noob was logging in quickly after DT just as the servers came online and making that run through the entryway into null and hoping you make it past that first barrier to your new home. You did it then because it wasn't really possible during prime time for a noob to make it. Now anyone can pretty much go anywhere anytime. I can recall noobs on their first trip out
having their new corp/alliance mates coaching them and routing for them on comms. I want that sense of accomplishing something back in the game.

It's ANOTHER drop in the risk that goes with the greater rewards of living in lawless space. Focus on the concept, not 1 dude slipping past a gate camp. This is big picture stuff.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#68 - 2016-05-20 13:58:13 UTC
maybe just remove bubbles, why should ratters be able to bubble the hell out of ratting systems so they can rat risk free, or null entry systems where they put bubbles up just to slow people down Roll

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#69 - 2016-05-20 14:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Lan Wang wrote:
maybe just remove bubbles, why should ratters be able to bubble the hell out of ratting systems so they can rat risk free, or null entry systems where they put bubbles up just to slow people down Roll


remove bubbles? How are you supposed to catch cloakers and fast warpers then?
How to keep a whole fleet of dudes in place, or even supercapitals? Bubbles have their purpose.
Its just more and more ships being added to the game, which circumvent these fundamental mechanics and
making them kinda worthless.

You can still use interdiction nullified T3 for getting past bubbles and tackle. no need for an interceptor.
This argument is used a lot as excuse for keeping safe travel mobile for zero and WH space.

Other way would be interceptors being immune to anchorable bubbles only and not against interdictor or HIC bubbles;
possibly by introduction of interdiction strength attribute or smth alike, with strength of 1 for mobile bubbles and 2-3 for interdictor and hic deployed spheres, coupled with some warp drive attribute given to ship types.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#70 - 2016-05-20 14:19:50 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
remove bubbles? How are you supposed to catch cloakers and fast warpers then?


same way they do in lowsec and highsec?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#71 - 2016-05-20 14:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Lan Wang wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
remove bubbles? How are you supposed to catch cloakers and fast warpers then?


same way they do in lowsec and highsec?


so basically, not at all?!? You must be f... kidding. Your posts might actually qualify as trolling by now.

In a thread about nullification nerf you simply request exact the opposite and giving this ability to basically any other ship in game by removing bubbles all together - so not only interceptors can be uncatchable but basically any other fast aligning ship and most cloakers too??!
Sepheir Sepheron
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2016-05-20 14:25:34 UTC
I don't think interdiction immunity is bad at all.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#73 - 2016-05-20 14:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Robert Caldera wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
remove bubbles? How are you supposed to catch cloakers and fast warpers then?


same way they do in lowsec and highsec?


so basically, not at all?!? You must be f... kidding.
In a thread about nullification nerf you simply request exact the contrary and giving this ability to basically any other ship in game by removing bubbles - so not only interceptor will be uncatchable but basically any other fast aligning ship too??!


tell you what, go look at my alliance killboard and check out the amount of stuff that gets killed on the gates without bubbles then have a think to yourself are these ships really uncatchable.

1 character has 27 interceptor kills since 15th of May, thats just interceptors jumping through rancer, thats not even smart bombs he flies a svipul

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#74 - 2016-05-20 14:52:13 UTC
27 out of how many thousands passing trough?
Im fully aware that you can kill the fail fitted ones + I did rsebo camps myself I know how many of them are realictically vulnerable to instalock, you cant fool me with this bc
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#75 - 2016-05-20 15:01:05 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
27 out of how many thousands passing trough?
Im fully aware that you can kill the fail fitted ones + I did rsebo camps myself I know how many of them are realictically vulnerable to instalock, you cant fool me with this bc


you're just sounding entitled now and trying to pick an argument when the killboard of 1 alliance shows multiple kills of these cloaky ships and ceptors, so we can confirm you are just looking for them to be nerfed so you can get the kills easier with your bubbler? if you done resbo camps then why are telling us there is no counter to them?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Davian Thule Pirkibo
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#76 - 2016-05-20 15:33:37 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
27 out of how many thousands passing trough?
Im fully aware that you can kill the fail fitted ones + I did rsebo camps myself I know how many of them are realictically vulnerable to instalock, you cant fool me with this bc

I understand your argument, from the grand scale of risk vs reward, your right in that sense, but here's an important part to remember and know what your getting at, however there are two major balance issues, that are grand scale ones, the risk reward factor and the convenience factor, the latter is difficult to deal with, which ccp actually is attempting to deal with under the npc tax changes, it's convenient for higher end players to do most of their business in highsec. If you end interdiction nullification for Ceptors nullsec looses as you pointed out a convenient way to travel, thus making low and high sec more appealing. I think it would hurt the game more if you gave people less reasons to live in null, considering that's were most of the content is happening in eve , you can see my point here.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#77 - 2016-05-20 16:12:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Lan Wang wrote:
if you done resbo camps then why are telling us there is no counter to them?


beceuse thats not working for 80-90% of them


Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
If you end interdiction nullification for Ceptors nullsec looses as you pointed out a convenient way to travel, thus making low and high sec more appealing. I think it would hurt the game more if you gave people less reasons to live in null, considering that's were most of the content is happening in eve , you can see my point here.


so what you're saying is that dark and dangerous place in eve shouldnt be all too dark and dangerous, because noone would go there?
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#78 - 2016-05-20 19:01:51 UTC
No it's still dark and dangerous, for those who don't own the space at least, however it would be logical that technology that is difficult to counter would arise to avoid the risk.
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#79 - 2016-05-20 19:15:23 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
if you done resbo camps then why are telling us there is no counter to them?


beceuse thats not working for 80-90% of them


Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
If you end interdiction nullification for Ceptors nullsec looses as you pointed out a convenient way to travel, thus making low and high sec more appealing. I think it would hurt the game more if you gave people less reasons to live in null, considering that's were most of the content is happening in eve , you can see my point here.


so what you're saying is that dark and dangerous place in eve shouldnt be all too dark and dangerous, because noone would go there?

And, in a way yes, I'd prefer to have an important area of the game more populated and lived in then an area that is not because of an absolute usage of the idea of risk reward, nullsec is arguably more risky then ever with the super coalitions now gone and the map is slowly turning into small nullsec empires warring with each other
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#80 - 2016-05-20 19:16:37 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
if you done resbo camps then why are telling us there is no counter to them?


beceuse thats not working for 80-90% of them


Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote:
If you end interdiction nullification for Ceptors nullsec looses as you pointed out a convenient way to travel, thus making low and high sec more appealing. I think it would hurt the game more if you gave people less reasons to live in null, considering that's were most of the content is happening in eve , you can see my point here.


so what you're saying is that dark and dangerous place in eve shouldnt be all too dark and dangerous, because noone would go there?


no, its not working for you and this is just gettin pointless now, 80-90% is just a wild guess to make your argument seem valid. Davian has made a really valid point so ill leave it at that, ceptors are fine you just need to get better at catching them

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*