These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why does caldari militia fail? Your viewsplease
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2011-12-29 17:24:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
I certainly cant speak for everyone else in our corp or in GalMil, but speaking for myself, I want there to be more CalMil people to fight. At least in my timezone, there are Caldari who fight every day, and they get kills on on us (read:me), but they just dont have the numbers to put on the line right now to consistantly counter our "out of the woodwork" numbers.

And to suggest that Gallente in general are just looking/planning to blob is innacurate. As Pangolin said, we just have lots of people who want to pvp. If intel comes out that there is a fleet of 5-6 guys in X system, we all run toward X system in hopes of getting a fight. We dont sit at a gate and say "Ok, lets wait until we outnumber them 3-1, then we will go." We go with what shows up in a short amount of time, and what shows up just happens to be a lot of folks. It is not reasonable to expect someone to say in Milita chat: "I found a fleet of 6 squids in Enaluri, and I am running a solo plex. I need help, but only 5 of you are allowed to come. Everyone else frack off..." Intel gets posted, and people who want to fight show up. The root of the problem is we just have more people that want to fight right now.

I know this may sound like a hair brained idea, but why not search for other Corps in the recruitment forum, or C&P or CAOD, etc stating your case. "CalMil wants you! Want a target rich environment? Fights every day? Fights restricted to certain ship sizes? Sanctioned piracy? CalMil is for you. The recent plex changes, etc., blah, blah..." You get the picture. Just entice corps who might be bored with what they are currently doing and lay out what FW has to offer. I honestly think the plex changes are excellent and are a good reason for other folks to join. /shrug. EDIT: Fidilum beat me to the punch as I was typing this. What he said above.

Honestly, we really do want there to be more cal mil. We are kinda getting bored. My sec status is hurting because we dont have targets and have been going pie for things to shoot. Among others, I went GCC last night for a rifter. A RIFTER for chrissakes. That should tell you all you need to know. (I also got myself blowed up with gateguns because I am not used to flying around with a GCC flag.)

Here is hoping for more corps to join Caldari. I cant stand ratting for sec status. ;)

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#202 - 2011-12-29 17:42:45 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Honestly, we really do want there to be more cal mil. We are kinda getting bored.


Could you stop repeating this lie like a Chatgris'es trained b...h you are. No, you dont want and you never have wanted. So shut up.
EVIL SYNNs
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#203 - 2011-12-29 17:50:09 UTC
Ach now come on... The Gallente want more pilots to gank... or to justify their fleet numbers.

I agree the problem is mostly a roaming gang of 2-5 caldari get a response from 5-15 gallente, so the Caldari see the number disadvantage and run!

No one wants to die in a fire, and when you hear intel of twice as many ships as you have, you know you are going to die.

The problem, as I've said before, is the Gallente have 3 corps each with over 100 members.

The Caldari's most active corp (on killboard) is 40 members, The Caldari's 3rd top scorer this month is state pro.

I thought that these gallentes would take on pirates, bring heavy ships, ships that I/we could use smaller numbers on to "grab" from the fleet, just as we did when the shoe was on the other foot and I were gallente with massive caldari fleets.

But the gallentes are flying cruiser hulls and below. They are taking the plexing serious But in doing so, I can't ninja kill them. As Damar says, I want to kill you not give you a fight.

Until the 3 x 100 man corps get bored or take on one of the pirate corps - Move in and kill them. (WOLFY v Swigg in tama) comes to mind. (we didn't get on at all to start with, then we turned on the caldari). There is no reason to fight.

If gallente can bring 20 in high sp ships, and the caldari can't even get that number in low sp ships. Its ganks all the way!

Not a problem I guess but the 300 guys in gallente must be getting bored! I know I am!
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#204 - 2011-12-29 18:01:33 UTC
EVIL SYNNs wrote:
Not a problem I guess but the 300 guys in gallente must be getting bored! I know I am!


Well, you didnt last long in militia did you?

The problem with plexes is that it's wonderful if both sides are equally matched. However, since on that front the numbers are so completely lopsided, it does not matter if someone like Squatdog or me can go and rip apart multiple froggies alone. Short term victory will always be undone by eventual blob which follows.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#205 - 2011-12-29 18:09:06 UTC
EVIL SYNNs wrote:
I thought that these gallentes would take on pirates, bring heavy ships, ships that I/we could use smaller numbers on to "grab" from the fleet, just as we did when the shoe was on the other foot and I were gallente with massive caldari fleets.


First off, we do take on pirates. When they want to fight, they know where to find us. Had a nice three way with pirates and caldari over the enaluri bunker not long ago, and we regularly take on pirate gangs when they are around. (At least when I'm online)

Your second comment is more of a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation. We've (QCATS, USTZ) largely stopped bringing heavy ships since we already have the numbers advantage. This is the first time I've seen someone complain due to an attempt to undership the enemy :)
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2011-12-29 18:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Andre Vauban
Edit: man are we all bored silly at work today or what?

EVIL SYNNs wrote:
Ach now come on... The Gallente want more pilots to gank... or to justify their fleet numbers.

I agree the problem is mostly a roaming gang of 2-5 caldari get a response from 5-15 gallente, so the Caldari see the number disadvantage and run!

No one wants to die in a fire, and when you hear intel of twice as many ships as you have, you know you are going to die.

The problem, as I've said before, is the Gallente have 3 corps each with over 100 members.

The Caldari's most active corp (on killboard) is 40 members, The Caldari's 3rd top scorer this month is state pro.

I thought that these gallentes would take on pirates, bring heavy ships, ships that I/we could use smaller numbers on to "grab" from the fleet, just as we did when the shoe was on the other foot and I were gallente with massive caldari fleets.

But the gallentes are flying cruiser hulls and below. They are taking the plexing serious But in doing so, I can't ninja kill them. As Damar says, I want to kill you not give you a fight.

Until the 3 x 100 man corps get bored or take on one of the pirate corps - Move in and kill them. (WOLFY v Swigg in tama) comes to mind. (we didn't get on at all to start with, then we turned on the caldari). There is no reason to fight.

If gallente can bring 20 in high sp ships, and the caldari can't even get that number in low sp ships. Its ganks all the way!

Not a problem I guess but the 300 guys in gallente must be getting bored! I know I am!


SPDR and SOTF definitely do go toe to toe with the pirate corps. QCATS no longer has the capability of fighting the pirate corps toe to toe. We are more of a skirmish warfare Corp, it's just who we are. We just don't roll heavy without having a specific reason. Also, QCATS is now well under 100 members.

.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#207 - 2011-12-29 18:18:08 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:


SPDR and SOTF definitely do go toe to toe with the pirate corps. QCATS no longer has the capability of fighting the pirate corps toe to toe. We are more of a skirmish warfare Corp, it's just who we are. We just don't roll heavy without having a specific reason. Also, QCATS is now well under 100 members.


So you're saying we don't have to see the navy domi blobbed dubbed "the package" ever again? Promise? Blink
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#208 - 2011-12-29 18:21:16 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Super Chair wrote:
Andre Vauban wrote:


SPDR and SOTF definitely do go toe to toe with the pirate corps. QCATS no longer has the capability of fighting the pirate corps toe to toe. We are more of a skirmish warfare Corp, it's just who we are. We just don't roll heavy without having a specific reason. Also, QCATS is now well under 100 members.


So you're saying we don't have to see the navy domi blobbed dubbed "the package" ever again? Promise? Blink


Very unlikely (that you will see the navy domi blob again), given the high number of perma-blinkies in the US TZ now. Even ignoring the fw standing hit for repping a friendly < -5, gate guns + drones == sad gallente.

Come to think of it, this is what in my experience usually stops us from engaging more organized pirate gangs, our inability to use remote reps (here's to hoping that CCP fixes the fw standing hit one day for repping a friendly -5)

EDIT: Plus, even before a large number of pilots went perma -5, the navy domis were just a counter to the 4-5 scorp fleets that cal mil fielded for a while. And this was before you *made* us learn how to fly nano. That's right, I'm going to put this on a new line so it's very apparent:

SUPER CHAIR IS THE REASON THE GAL MIL FLIES NANO NOW

His nano drake fleets are the reason we stopped flying armor ships and had to adapt. (Maybe nexx would have converted us in the long run with the cynabal, but Super definitely hastened the process).
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#209 - 2011-12-29 18:24:26 UTC
Cryissa wrote:


For the most part recently the faction war seemed to be enjoyed by the members of CNO. That was until Caldari were driven out of Enaluri. I am far too young in FW to know the years of history so please forgive me if I appear to be talking out of my bottom.




Caldari haven't between driven out of Enal.. there just isn't a lot of active players at the moment , but there is still more than enough people in enal.. Getting them to undock on the other had.. Well that's a challenge.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#210 - 2011-12-29 18:30:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Cryissa wrote:
Is all of this fun? I cannot abide sitting at gates for very long.

I cannot imagine finding that fun in any sec as 10 or more catching one litle fish now and then?

Maybe I am just a different breed with different morals and a different idea of what fun is?


Gallentes wont be bored by any of that. Very few people get bored by one-sided ganks in Eve. Most people are horrified of losing ships and despite boasting, most people are not in eve for good fights or challenges. They want ganks and then go on forums to boast about it. Just consider OP of this thread, another "grass is greener on this side" class of people. In old times they were called turncoats or just cowards. In Eve he is most likely praised for his "foresight".


This is pretty much true.. There are very few people in this game that want to play on hard mode, which means often being against the odds. I always get a kick out of the guys that swap sides like the OP when the sides are already un-balanced., leaving for the stronger side of the moment.

When we came back to FW we actually had to grind our standings to get into Caldari whom was then the under dog. We could of went right to Gallente or back to Minmatar but where would the fun in that be of constantly ganking people that have no chance of fighting back?

Garr Earthbender wrote:
It might be time for 'scheduled frig fights' kinda thing.

Then the squids would get a chance for some sort of even fight and nobody risks too much.


Sorry but not here to amuse your bloblings.. Those of us that still undock will just kill you guys when the killing is good and avoid your 10 vs 1 odds when the killing it not so good. We will gank you when you don't expect it, as there is no reason to entertain you guys when you never entertain us with GF's..

Besides that, you guys have far more active players at the moment, so how would you ever tell half your guys, that they can't come to an arranged fight.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#211 - 2011-12-29 18:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Andre Vauban wrote:
SPDR and SOTF definitely do go toe to toe with the pirate corps. QCATS no longer has the capability of fighting the pirate corps toe to toe. We are more of a skirmish warfare Corp, it's just who we are. We just don't roll heavy without having a specific reason. Also, QCATS is now well under 100 members.


I know I've been OOG for a while, but since I've been back we've engaged pirate fleets toe to toe more often than not when we see them.

Two recent fights I can think of:

http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11930454 (Three way enlauri bunker bust)
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11930807 (logi support tier3 gang) (looks lopsided since you can't catch them all).

Are there often pirate gangs in the US TZ we can't take on?
Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#212 - 2011-12-29 18:56:01 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Hrett wrote:
Honestly, we really do want there to be more cal mil. We are kinda getting bored.


Could you stop repeating this lie like a Chatgris'es trained b...h you are. No, you dont want and you never have wanted. So shut up.


You really are a piece of work Damar...

You really are.

The fact is, we do want and liked it when the Caldari could match us fleet for fleet, ship for ship. Just because we don't like you and think you are one mental, crazy, hypocritical nut job does not translate to our opinion and desire to the rest of Cal Mil.

Despite some of you who seem to like to think you know more about what we want and how we want to play better then we do ourselves, most of us do prefer the even fight.


Will the fights we get always be even? Hell no. That's Eve. The gank-of-opportunity should never be passed up. But that does not change the fact that we would very much like to see a Cal Mil that can field PvP'ers on a more regular basis. After all, that's why most of us are in FW...

But then again, you Damar and a couple others here already know more about what we want then we do...so I guess I'm just wasting my time... Roll
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2011-12-29 18:56:34 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Hrett wrote:
Honestly, we really do want there to be more cal mil. We are kinda getting bored.


Could you stop repeating this lie like a Chatgris'es trained b...h you are. No, you dont want and you never have wanted. So shut up.


How pleasant.

So curious - what do you believe GalMil, the collective hive-mind that we are, wants? It must be well hidden and planted deep into my psyche because I dont even recall the hypnosis/training session that they must have put me through when I joined. What is their agenda? Please tell me so I can write it on my hand so when they re-hypnotize me I can remember it and try to grok out their plot. You know, like in that movie with that dude with those tattoos and things.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#214 - 2011-12-29 19:12:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Cromwell Savage wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Hrett wrote:
Honestly, we really do want there to be more cal mil. We are kinda getting bored.


Could you stop repeating this lie like a Chatgris'es trained b...h you are. No, you dont want and you never have wanted. So shut up.


You really are a piece of work Damar...

You really are.

The fact is, we do want and liked it when the Caldari could match us fleet for fleet, ship for ship. Just because we don't like you and think you are one mental, crazy, hypocritical nut job does not translate to our opinion and desire to the rest of Cal Mil.

Despite some of you who seem to like to think you know more about what we want and how we want to play better then we do ourselves, most of us do prefer the even fight.


Will the fights we get always be even? Hell no. That's Eve. The gank-of-opportunity should never be passed up. But that does not change the fact that we would very much like to see a Cal Mil that can field PvP'ers on a more regular basis. After all, that's why most of us are in FW...

But then again, you Damar and a couple others here already know more about what we want then we do...so I guess I'm just wasting my time... Roll


The problem is, you don't show that you want GF's by your actions.. When you know already know that you out number the other side, why still push it further by always bringing Faction ships into the plexes?

If you actually wanted GF's, then you would make it a point to bring less OP ships to every fight, when you already have the numbers advantage. If I'm looking at your gang of randoms as you guys claim and see say 5 or 6 Ruptures, thorax's or Vexors I'm going to say. Yea I could maybe have a chance at that if I bring out say 2 Drakes or maybe a Myrm or Cyclone. Say I see a 5 or 6 frigs I say to myself, yea I can have a go at that with a Vexor or Caracal.

This gives me opportunity to look at a way of a challenging fight that could potentially go either way and most likely both side will lose a ship or two. (granted I know I'd be met with 30 ECM-300's but that besides the point)

Meanwhile the reality is always.. those 5 or 6 Ruptures or Thoraxs are normally Cynabals, Phantasms, Stabber Fleet issues.. ectt.ect.. Those 5 or 6 frigs are always Dramiels & Daredevils, with random navy frigs mixed in.

So you might "think" you are looking for GFs, you are not however returning the notion that you actually want a GF by your actions. Why do you think I always fly T1 BC's or T1 cruisers with the only t2 ships I ever fly being frigs? Do you think I don't have Recon V, Hac V and every racial cruiser & frigs to V's, ability to fly all T3's ect..ect?

Of course I do, but I ship my self down because I look for fights that are interesting and in my experiences those interesting fights usually only come when the "other" side thinks they have the advantage. Meaning you show no notion that you want GF's when you always bring gank fleets. You want GF's then you need to appear to want GF's by your actions and provide them in return.
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#215 - 2011-12-29 19:14:17 UTC
Cromwell Savage wrote:
Just because we don't like you and think you are one mental, crazy, hypocritical nut job does not translate to our opinion and desire to the rest of Cal Mil


I find that highly ironical, coming from people whose hobby includes evemail spamming, ad-hominem attacks, etc. And the reason which provoked you to do all this? Hell as I know, except I was picked up as target from hordes of Caldari plexers years ago.

Oh right, it's because the target of said attacks is not polite to you after such attacks, it's HIS fault. I could put a tasteless real-world allegory here but I skip it since unlike you lot, I have some restraint.
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#216 - 2011-12-29 19:20:10 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Meanwhile the reality is always.. those 5 or 6 Ruptures or Thoraxs are normally Cynabals, Phantasms, Stabber Fleet issues.. ectt.ect.. Those 5 or 6 frigs are always Dramiels & Daredevils.


I think you pretty much nailed it.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2011-12-29 19:22:04 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Cromwell Savage wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Hrett wrote:
Honestly, we really do want there to be more cal mil. We are kinda getting bored.


Could you stop repeating this lie like a Chatgris'es trained b...h you are. No, you dont want and you never have wanted. So shut up.


You really are a piece of work Damar...

You really are.

The fact is, we do want and liked it when the Caldari could match us fleet for fleet, ship for ship. Just because we don't like you and think you are one mental, crazy, hypocritical nut job does not translate to our opinion and desire to the rest of Cal Mil.

Despite some of you who seem to like to think you know more about what we want and how we want to play better then we do ourselves, most of us do prefer the even fight.


Will the fights we get always be even? Hell no. That's Eve. The gank-of-opportunity should never be passed up. But that does not change the fact that we would very much like to see a Cal Mil that can field PvP'ers on a more regular basis. After all, that's why most of us are in FW...

But then again, you Damar and a couple others here already know more about what we want then we do...so I guess I'm just wasting my time... Roll


The problem is, you don't show that you want GF's by your actions.. When you know already know that you out number the other side, why still push it further by always bringing Faction ships into the plexes?

If you actually wanted GF's, then you would make it a point to bring less OP ships to every fight, when you already have the numbers advantage. If I'm looking at your gang of randoms as you guys claim and see say 5 or 6 Ruptures, thorax's or Vexors I'm going to say. Yea I could maybe have a chance at that if I bring out say 2 Drakes or maybe a Myrm or Cyclone. Say I see a 5 or 6 frigs I say to myself, yea I can have a go at that with a Vexor or Caracal.

This gives me opportunity to look at a way of a challenging fight that could potentially go either way and most likely both side will lose a ship or two. (granted I know I'd be met with 30 ECM-300's but that besides the point)

Meanwhile the reality is always.. those 5 or 6 Ruptures or Thoraxs are normally Cynabals, Phantasms, Stabber Fleet issues.. ectt.ect.. Those 5 or 6 frigs are always Dramiels & Daredevils, with random navy frigs mixed in.

So you might "think" you are looking for GFs, you are not however returning the notion that you actually want a GF by your actions. Why do you think I always fly T1 BC's or T1 cruisers with the only t2 ships I ever fly being frigs? Do you think I don't have Recon V, Hac V and every racial cruiser & frigs to V's, ability to fly all T3's ect..ect?

Of course I do, but I ship my self down because I look for fights that are interesting and in my experiences those interesting fights usually only come when the "other" side thinks they have the advantage. Meaning you show no notion that you want GF's when you always bring gank fleets. You want GF's then you need to appear to want GF's by your actions and provide them in return.


^ Please call out names of Gall Mil pilots doing this. Many of us are intentionally trying not to over ship and get fights.

.
Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#218 - 2011-12-29 19:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cromwell Savage
Mutnin wrote:
Cromwell Savage wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Hrett wrote:
Honestly, we really do want there to be more cal mil. We are kinda getting bored.


Could you stop repeating this lie like a Chatgris'es trained b...h you are. No, you dont want and you never have wanted. So shut up.


You really are a piece of work Damar...

You really are.

The fact is, we do want and liked it when the Caldari could match us fleet for fleet, ship for ship. Just because we don't like you and think you are one mental, crazy, hypocritical nut job does not translate to our opinion and desire to the rest of Cal Mil.

Despite some of you who seem to like to think you know more about what we want and how we want to play better then we do ourselves, most of us do prefer the even fight.


Will the fights we get always be even? Hell no. That's Eve. The gank-of-opportunity should never be passed up. But that does not change the fact that we would very much like to see a Cal Mil that can field PvP'ers on a more regular basis. After all, that's why most of us are in FW...

But then again, you Damar and a couple others here already know more about what we want then we do...so I guess I'm just wasting my time... Roll


The problem is, you don't show that you want GF's by your actions.. When you know already know that you out number the other side, why still push it further by always bringing Faction ships into the plexes?

If you actually wanted GF's, then you would make it a point to bring less OP ships to every fight, when you already have the numbers advantage. If I'm looking at your gang of randoms as you guys claim and see say 5 or 6 Ruptures, thorax's or Vexors I'm going to say. Yea I could maybe have a chance at that if I bring out say 2 Drakes or 2 canes. Say I see a 5 or 6 frigs I say to myself, yea I can have a go at that with a Vexor or Caracal.

This gives me opportunity to look at a way of a challenging fight that could potentially go either way and most likely both side will lose a ship or two. (granted I know I'd be met with 30 ECM-300's but that besides the point)

Meanwhile the reality is always.. those 5 or 6 Ruptures or Thoraxs are normally Cynabals, Phantasms, Stabber Fleet issues.. ectt.ect.. Those 5 or 6 frigs are always Dramiels & Daredevils..

So why you might "think" you are looking for GFs, you are not however returning the notion that you actually want a GF by your actions. Why do you think I always fly T1 BC's or T1 cruisers with the only t2 ships I ever fly being frigs? Do you think I don't have Recon V, Hac V and every racial cruiser & frigs to V's, ability to fly all T3's ect..ect?

Of course I do, but I ship my self down because I look for fights that are interesting and in my experiences those interesting fights usually only come when the "other" side thinks they have the advantage. Meaning you show no notion that you want GF's when you always bring gank fleets.


So...once again..YOU know more about how I want to play the game....

I'm not saying that we (Gal Mil) overship....but that is not "most". And I am not the "you".

Cal Mil still does it themselves. Cruisers to take on frigs. 4 or more to take on 1. This is NOT unique to Gal Mil. People will roll with what they have and who they are with. I don't cry about fair fights and blobs when a small fleet of Cal Mil run me out of a plex while I'm solo. Or when I decide to engage outnumbered and still lose. Or when a dessie tries to gank my frig... It's all part of the game.

I've been in FW for over 2 years. Seen it cycle to the Cal side and now it is heavily on the Gal side right now. I can remember sitting on the Tama gate for over an hour in cruisers waiting for the squids to get their fleet together only to have them come rolling out in frikkin BS's with greater numbers then us knowing full well what we had for 5 jumps in every direction. Oh well, that's the game.

If I wanted PvP with training wheels where it was some utopian, hippy commune of "fairness", I'd do RvB (no offense :P) or something similair with a rigid structure and rules.

As it is, you deal with what you have and you adapt to what the oppostion is doing. You don't come here to cry and moan about it. 2 years ago the squids were rolling heavy and roamed as they please. There were several squids ganking in our hi-sec. Guess what, I (and many others) adapted and are better pilots for it.

That's exactly what the squids need to do now - NOT sit here and make excuses how it's the Gall's fault that Eve isn't fair....
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#219 - 2011-12-29 19:29:13 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
^ Please call out names of Gall Mil pilots doing this. Many of us are intentionally trying not to over ship and get fights.


And you are asking this question without a slightest hint of irony?
(Answer from what i've seen: Every last one of them, at every possible opportunity)
Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#220 - 2011-12-29 19:32:56 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Andre Vauban wrote:
^ Please call out names of Gall Mil pilots doing this. Many of us are intentionally trying not to over ship and get fights.


And you are asking this question without a slightest hint of irony?
(Answer from what i've seen: Every last one of them, at every possible opportunity)


Obviously...you see only what you want to see...which isn't that much....