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Hmm... Carriers
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-05-09 17:14:19 UTC
RIP cruisers online, good morning fighters online.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#22 - 2016-05-09 17:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
I went back to 0.0 and jumped in my carrier and oh my god this rocks, this ship is great fun to use and not a sitting duck even in its current state of having a lack of Capital modules.

CCP this is really good, in fact at this point me and a corp mate who rushed back to hisec to train up the skills he needed to fly his carrier want go out and use it to rat and the like and actually will welcome people trying to kill us, now if they bring dreads or something bigger and better we are toast, but too many people are whining in he forums to plan to do that. But our objective is to have fun, instead of sitting there dying a slow painful death while people call you a noob you can go in and say lets have fun and actually kill stuff as you die in a blaze of death and destruction..

Great job CCP, just damn awesome...

EDIT: Whoever designed this system has my total respect, great job.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dark Phox
Strategic Isks Investments Corporation
#23 - 2016-05-09 20:10:25 UTC
See, and tons of whining like this will get carriers nerfed, then they will complain about dreads, then when those get nerfed, they will complain they can't welp a titan with frigs.

I say, nerf the Whiny babies on the forums.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#24 - 2016-05-09 20:21:40 UTC
I dont know what everybody is complaining about - carriers are still dying regularly. Hell, as I understand it, carriers (or at least their fighters are) are very vulnerable to ecm. Simply HTFU and adapt. When you want to gank that carrier bring a griffin, rook, and/or falcon and get it on.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-05-09 20:24:40 UTC
Dark Phox wrote:
See, and tons of whining like this will get carriers nerfed, then they will complain about dreads, then when those get nerfed, they will complain they can't welp a titan with frigs.

I say, nerf the Whiny babies on the forums.



Chill out, op carriers will bring back the players estranged by the jump fatigue changes. So there will not be any nerf.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Felix Judge
Regnum Ludorum
#26 - 2016-05-09 20:29:08 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:
[...] Even if a small gang somehow figures out how to engage, which is usually ecm/logi and enough dps to kill the fighters, ratting systems are not usually occupied by one person, so he brings in another carrier by form of corp mate or an alt. That pretty much ends the pvp.
This buff has done nothing but end pvp, small-medium gang pvp.

It is not as if you are FORCED to engage a carrier.
It is a big beast. In comparison to small gang ships, it is a VERY big beast. What's wrong with having to bring numbers to overwhelm it?
And you can still kill one with few - just bring a carrier yourself.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#27 - 2016-05-09 20:34:12 UTC
Look, all capitals should have great sensors. They aren't short on size, power or places to put them. These are CAPITAL SHIPS, things that cost Billions of ISK to own, much more to train into. Their fighters aren't a dime a dozen. You are trading ISK for power.

Now, with that in mind, yes, a small gang of 20< ships should fear such a ship (Battlecruiser or smaller). Frigates are not ships of the line, they aren't meant to go toe to toe with fighter groups, even in a modern navy.

You can argue that they are too inexpensive for their force projection, that's a valid tactic. Complaining that your small gang of frigates is no match for one... not valid. You want to throw a small gang of Battleships or larger at one, then you have more ISK/Force equivalency.

Capital Ships should only fear massive fleets of sub caps or small fleets of Capitals. I'm a cruiser commander and I wouldn't even approach a capital ship like a carrier. If one was in my system, I'd get the heck out of my system if it looked like they were scanning or scamming for targets.

You have to consider all factors when balancing ships. It's the friggen hardest thing to do in game designs of this type.

Carriers might need a change in cost or something, but recall, that once they are out of fighters, they are just sitting ducks. Frigates, en masse, should be able to handle the fighters with ease.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Hemmo Paskiainen
#28 - 2016-05-09 21:50:42 UTC
Wow lol lol and lol again. It will just ne a matter of time.... 400-600 man fleets of carriers..... 1400 dps*400=5.600.00 dps a second.... thats like a dead super carrier in 5 sec?

Soo goons got bailed out again ehh. X

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2016-05-09 22:21:32 UTC
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Wow lol lol and lol again. It will just ne a matter of time.... 400-600 man fleets of carriers..... 1400 dps*400=5.600.00 dps a second.... thats like a dead super carrier in 5 sec?

Soo goons got bailed out again ehh. X



Which promptly gets defanged by a few bomb waves. Masses carriers are really not on the menu as a main fleet ship, WAY too easy to kill off the fighters with AOE damage, and unlike old sentry carriers, they cant carry hundreds of flights of their main damage drones to replace the ones dying.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-05-09 22:57:44 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Wow lol lol and lol again. It will just ne a matter of time.... 400-600 man fleets of carriers..... 1400 dps*400=5.600.00 dps a second.... thats like a dead super carrier in 5 sec?

Soo goons got bailed out again ehh. X



Which promptly gets defanged by a few bomb waves. Masses carriers are really not on the menu as a main fleet ship, WAY too easy to kill off the fighters with AOE damage, and unlike old sentry carriers, they cant carry hundreds of flights of their main damage drones to replace the ones dying.


How many flights of sentries can the average archon carry before anyways? Never been a carrier pilot but I heard it was in the range of boatloads of sentries.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2016-05-09 23:10:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Wow lol lol and lol again. It will just ne a matter of time.... 400-600 man fleets of carriers..... 1400 dps*400=5.600.00 dps a second.... thats like a dead super carrier in 5 sec?

Soo goons got bailed out again ehh. X



Which promptly gets defanged by a few bomb waves. Masses carriers are really not on the menu as a main fleet ship, WAY too easy to kill off the fighters with AOE damage, and unlike old sentry carriers, they cant carry hundreds of flights of their main damage drones to replace the ones dying.


How many flights of sentries can the average archon carry before anyways? Never been a carrier pilot but I heard it was in the range of boatloads of sentries.


I believe the bay volume was 100km3, enough for 20 fighters before, plus a 10k m3 CHA. If you counted both the drone hangar and the CHA (since you could use it off a nearby carrier), you could carry 110k m3 of drone, or 4400 sentry drones, 440 sets of sentries at carrier V.

Compared to what.... 2 full sets on a current carrier?
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2016-05-10 04:16:09 UTC  |  Edited by: d0cTeR9
I can't believe people still haven't figured it out...

A carrier fitted with the new network sensor array cannot use any ewar (or it instantly uses up all of the carrier's cap).
Answer to solo fast locking carriers: You can warp away, burn back to gate, etc.

Fighters are quite easy to kill, a solo carrier can't rep them unless they are pulled back into the fighter bay. Also carriers no longer carry drones, so they have 2 set of fighters (noob carriers have less), kill those and they now have ZERO dps.

Anti frigate/drone fighters can point you... but they can't touch your afterburner or web you. Simply deagress and leave.

99% of the time a solo carrier is to slow to engage and hold you, simply leave. No one forces you to engage it and die like an idiot. It also makes a LOT of sense for a small gang of frigates/cruisers to NOT pick a fight with a carrier (that's how it was for 10+ years, until a few years ago when carriers and fighters were castrated).

So far, looking at killboards, people dying to solo carriers CHOSE to engage it instead of leaving and then die. Well geniuses... don't engage it. That goes for any other pvp engagement (and in those, most of the time you are forced to engage). I spotted a OP of another 'nerf carrier thread' and on his killboard it showed he engaged a single carrier, chose to stay in the area to get pointed by the fighters and then die, instead of simply burning back to the gate and jumping OR warping away (there was no bubble there too!).

Players are making bad decisions and then are blaming carriers as being OP, what a joke. Oh and the guy spamming all those threads, dude you got rekt against a dozen players on a gate camp and they happened to have a carrier. Cry moar about carriers plz...

Been around since the beginning.
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#33 - 2016-05-14 07:21:53 UTC
I wonder if this is what it feels like to be undercover police listening to a suspect say things like "cops have to tell you they're cops if you ask them three times."
Adelie Magellanic
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2016-05-14 11:08:19 UTC
Sentamon wrote:

After years of tiercide, tiers are back with a vengeance.


There are certainly plenty of them in this thread.
Temugen
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2016-05-14 11:49:43 UTC
I read all the threads about "op carriers!" and got curious.

We took a small ship gang out on a roam and happen to find a carrier sitting on a station. We decided to test all those "op carriers!" rants. we played with that carrier for about 30 mins killed several of it's fighters with 2 thoraxes and a command dessie all with passive tank. Yes, we eventually lost our ships, but only because we were testing different strategies and had no reps. We had no problem killing fighters and staying alive. Thanked the carrier pilot for NOT playing station games and left. It was fun.

Lets stop all this nonsense and move along to a different rant please.

Thanks
A now disinterested party.
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2016-05-14 23:41:00 UTC  |  Edited by: maCH'EttE
Temugen wrote:
I read all the threads about "op carriers!" and got curious.

We took a small ship gang out on a roam and happen to find a carrier sitting on a station. We decided to test all those "op carriers!" rants. we played with that carrier for about 30 mins killed several of it's fighters with 2 thoraxes and a command dessie all with passive tank. Yes, we eventually lost our ships, but only because we were testing different strategies and had no reps. We had no problem killing fighters and staying alive. Thanked the carrier pilot for NOT playing station games and left. It was fun.

Lets stop all this nonsense and move along to a different rant please.

Thanks
A now disinterested party.

please next time record your fight and put it up on youtube, and ask for the carrier fit...if you tanked his damage he must have been poorly fit, and I dont believe two s*** of your story. I assume your were blaster fits, so you had to be close range, ummm, i guess the carrier did not have a nuet either. like I said, he must have been poorly fit or not even fit for pvp.
Anthar Thebess
#37 - 2016-05-15 06:59:17 UTC
Carriers where broken as a slowcat fleet (and any variations of this doctrine) where multi million EHP, remote reps and drone assist created something so broken - you could only defeat this on paper.
People tried to counter this using hundreds of dreads, but this don't worked as simply eve nodes are unable to sustain the fleet needed to kill a slowcat fleet.
Each slowcat was able to field thousand of sentry drones.

At the same time old carriers where week alone, easy to counter.


New carriers, can kill tackle by them self, can be dangerous in bigger groups but even then can be killed by a proper counter.
They need FAX to survive incoming DPS.
Fighters can be quite easily killed ( MJD is not something that you can have on light fighters) and you don't have so many spare ones.

We finally have true carriers in eve.
Don't try to brake it.


Remember that carrier capable of killing small ships will not have EHP

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2016-05-15 11:17:13 UTC
Gotta laugh at the null carebears undocking half a dozen carriers to fight small gangs because they're pure rapage unless you have massive logi support or caps on stand-by.
Temugen
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2016-05-15 11:25:39 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:

please next time record your fight and put it up on youtube, and ask for the carrier fit...if you tanked his damage he must have been poorly fit, and I dont believe two s*** of your story. I assume your were blaster fits, so you had to be close range, ummm, i guess the carrier did not have a nuet either. like I said, he must have been poorly fit or not even fit for pvp.


Wow... you assumed everything about this situation completely wrong. Of course nothing that surprises me from noobs. Check out the kills on killboard and re-read the original post I made. Then use that brain thing.. you know.. supposed to be kept in your head and think about what I posted.

lata
Terminator Cindy
Yesterday's Tomorrow
#40 - 2016-05-15 11:28:15 UTC
Relax, it wont last. CCP only makes ships better so they have what to nerf later when enough people spent money on it. Its just another isk sink.

Learned years ago not to go head first into buying these changes again.
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