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Hmm... Carriers
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Katherine Gray
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-05-08 14:36:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Gray
Were Carriers really that weak that ccp had to enable them to insta-lock and insta-kill any subcap there is?
No matter if its a frig or a 100mn ab buffer tanked t3?

For everybody who hasn't been following the recent updates:
Carriers got a new module called "Networked sensor array" that allows them to instalock everything.
Then all they need to do is drop fighters, mjd them to the enemy and volley them of the field using their special missile ability which insta kills pretty much any sub cap.

I'm asking cause ppl who died to one simply log off or dont come close to your space anymore. It gets really hard to find pvp around areas where a carrier has been seen. It hurts small scale pvp in such a big way... (and no, i didn't die to a carrier yet, i just find even less fights.)

Let me know what you think. :)
Thanks.

Wrote this on my cell, keep typos that you may find.

Edit: A vid that shows the issue...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R84Pk847waE
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2016-05-08 15:22:59 UTC
It's a carrier, not a lion hiding unseen in the bushes, ready to swoop out and devour passing small gangs to their impotent horror. It's not a ship that casts a shadow over an entire region by its mere presence.

Is it as hilariously easy as it used to be for a very small gang to tackle and then kite and basically ignore a ratting carriers drones? Nope. Boo Hoo

But if your small gang is living in fear of carriers, you either got baited and tackled and cyno'd on, in which case you ****** up, or you went in to try and kill a ratting carrier but you don't understand how to fight them now.

TLDR: You had months to deliver feedback as the system was developed and implemented. Whining about it now, and in the wrong thread at that, it silly. Adapt.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#3 - 2016-05-08 15:24:31 UTC
Your tears sustain my moustache. Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Unconspicous Alt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-05-08 15:56:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Unconspicous Alt
Katherine Gray wrote:
Were Carriers really that weak that ccp had to enable them to insta-lock and insta-kill any subcap there is?


Yes.
They do not "insta-lock and insta-kill any subcap", and exaggeration like this one got the other threads closed. But they were RIDICULOUSLY weak.

One tech 2 fighter ( i.e. einherji II ) has 52.8 dps ( for a limited time, while it can use its missiles ). This means a squadron has 475.5 dps, 3 squadrons can have a max of 1426 dps, which is hardly exaggerated for any ship, let alone a capital one. Using a T1 battleship with T2 armor hardeners i have tanked all 3 squadrons for 2 minutes ( AND managed to kill 4 fighters using the battleship guns ). So what is all this whining ? Attacking with 5 people a ship that cannot land a single shot on you is ok, but one that has the same firepower as yours is suddenly unbalanced ?
Mysa
EVIL PLANKTON
#5 - 2016-05-08 16:29:12 UTC
Plus 900% to a capital ships scan resolution sure is op, there just no other word for it. Dunno about the rest of the "buff" but that 10km ms on fighters seems abit stupid to..

SoloFoLife! -KEKE the Merlin wonder
Katherine Gray
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-05-08 17:02:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Gray
Anhenka wrote:
It's a carrier, not a lion hiding unseen in the bushes, ready to swoop out and devour passing small gangs to their impotent horror. It's not a ship that casts a shadow over an entire region by its mere presence.

Is it as hilariously easy as it used to be for a very small gang to tackle and then kite and basically ignore a ratting carriers drones? Nope. Boo Hoo

But if your small gang is living in fear of carriers, you either got baited and tackled and cyno'd on, in which case you ****** up, or you went in to try and kill a ratting carrier but you don't understand how to fight them now.

TLDR: You had months to deliver feedback as the system was developed and implemented. Whining about it now, and in the wrong thread at that, it silly. Adapt.


My small gang who are actually your neighbours who helped taking the space you were given does the dropping.
And that annoys me. Carriers are the solution for everything right now.

"Oh a frig entered our constallation, lets bait with a hauler and drop 2 carriers on it."
"Oh, a gang entered our constallation, lets bait with whatever and drop 10 carriers on them".
Fleets log off in system just because 2 carriers are sitting at the exit gates.

Thats just not supposed to happen.
And no i didn't have time to give feedback cause i wasn't able to play when they made it available for testing

Unconspicous Alt wrote:

They do not "insta-lock and insta-kill any subcap", and exaggeration like this one got the other threads closed. But they were RIDICULOUSLY weak.


Thats exactly what they do. No exaggeration.
https://zkillboard.com/related/30003634/201605021000/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/53752501/

^ those ships popped before they were aligned to warp out.
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-05-08 17:33:44 UTC
Katherine Gray wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
It's a carrier, not a lion hiding unseen in the bushes, ready to swoop out and devour passing small gangs to their impotent horror. It's not a ship that casts a shadow over an entire region by its mere presence.

Is it as hilariously easy as it used to be for a very small gang to tackle and then kite and basically ignore a ratting carriers drones? Nope. Boo Hoo

But if your small gang is living in fear of carriers, you either got baited and tackled and cyno'd on, in which case you ****** up, or you went in to try and kill a ratting carrier but you don't understand how to fight them now.

TLDR: You had months to deliver feedback as the system was developed and implemented. Whining about it now, and in the wrong thread at that, it silly. Adapt.


My small gang who are actually your neighbours who helped taking the space you were given does the dropping.
And that annoys me. Carriers are the solution for everything right now.

"Oh a frig entered our constallation, lets bait with a hauler and drop 2 carriers on it."
"Oh, a gang entered our constallation, lets bait with whatever and drop 10 carriers on them".
Fleets log off in system just because 2 carriers are sitting at the exit gates.

Thats just not supposed to happen.
And no i didn't have time to give feedback cause i wasn't able to play when they made it available for testing

Unconspicous Alt wrote:

They do not "insta-lock and insta-kill any subcap", and exaggeration like this one got the other threads closed. But they were RIDICULOUSLY weak.


Thats exactly what they do. No exaggeration.
https://zkillboard.com/related/30003634/201605021000/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/53752501/

^ those ships popped before they were aligned to warp out.

The problem is not that they can not be seen or can not be fought. Yes they can be fought, with a 15 +gang with additon of logi and ecm(griffin or any other one)
The problem arrises when a small gang, which is one of the game styles of Eve that has been duuduu'ed on by ccp or cpp for the past 3 years or so thanks to the people who played this game(fozzd.bag and baldbude) but forgot a great group of pvp'ers.
They are over powered, its simple as that. There is no risk anymore, a ratter could sit at a belt and rat alllll day every dayyy, knowing, he has nothing to fear anymore besides a large gang. There is no risk, and all the people who keep saying it is not OP'ed or love your tears, are just the boring ratters.
Even if a small gang somehow figures out how to engage, which is usually ecm/logi and enough dps to kill the fighters, ratting systems are not usually occupied by one person, so he brings in another carrier by form of corp mate or an alt. That pretty much ends the pvp.
This buff has done nothing but end pvp, small-medium gang pvp.
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-05-08 17:38:38 UTC
And lets not forget the buffs to Dreads. We had a carrier tackled yesterday, it locked a keres under 3 seconds, alphed, it also did the same thing to our second keres, we managed to settle and put dps on the carrier, we did this for 15 minutes, which avoiding the fighters, than the dude brings a dread, which alpes one of our dps ships..thats where the fitht ended. Not the first time nor will this happen the last time.
No risk for dreads or carriers anymore, besides in a 400 man gang fight.
Thomas Lot
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-05-08 17:43:03 UTC
This is already hashed out and locked in two separate threads. Would someone please lock this one as well?!
Katherine Gray
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-05-08 17:46:35 UTC
Thomas Lot wrote:
This is already hashed out and locked in two separate threads. Would someone please lock this one as well?!


Why would this thread be locked? No rules were broken. Just a discussion about a eve related topic. :)
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2016-05-08 17:52:40 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
It's a carrier, not a lion hiding unseen in the bushes, ready to swoop out and devour passing small gangs


Actually it is. The game has plenty of ambush mechanics to make it so.

It's great that carriers can defend themselves from subcaps now, but when you can pop in out of nowhere and wreck the field with them then you've got a problem.

After years of tiercide, tiers are back with a vengeance.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-05-08 18:10:58 UTC  |  Edited by: d0cTeR9
CCP changed years of.useless fighters to them doing some damage for a limited amount of time.
Fighters are easy to kill, same as always.
Carriers are easy to avoid, same as always.
With max skills a carrier can lock a frigate in 7-10 seconds but if it uses ewar it's cap is gone. It's a huge fitting cost too.

STOP being the weakest link with those noob T.T threads. A multi billion risk carrier now does the dps of a nicely fitted dps BS but can have it's dps easily taken away and people are whining. Pathetic.

Been around since the beginning.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#13 - 2016-05-08 18:56:16 UTC
Unconspicous Alt wrote:
Katherine Gray wrote:
Were Carriers really that weak that ccp had to enable them to insta-lock and insta-kill any subcap there is?


Yes.
They do not "insta-lock and insta-kill any subcap", and exaggeration like this one got the other threads closed. But they were RIDICULOUSLY weak.

One tech 2 fighter ( i.e. einherji II ) has 52.8 dps ( for a limited time, while it can use its missiles ). This means a squadron has 475.5 dps, 3 squadrons can have a max of 1426 dps, which is hardly exaggerated for any ship, let alone a capital one. Using a T1 battleship with T2 armor hardeners i have tanked all 3 squadrons for 2 minutes ( AND managed to kill 4 fighters using the battleship guns ). So what is all this whining ? Attacking with 5 people a ship that cannot land a single shot on you is ok, but one that has the same firepower as yours is suddenly unbalanced ?



I dont think those numbers are correct, and while the claim to instablap anything sub capital is an exaggeration they can pretty much instakill naything smaller than a BS, i'm not sure where you get 1426 DPS from but i was 1 shotting falcons on SISI which took 10k damage before i even had a chance to click all 9 ability icons :P
etgfrogs
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-05-08 20:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: etgfrogs
And people were saying initially that carriers are really weak. As I suspected there was quite a few who tested the carriers wanted to keep it a secret. Expect to see roaming dread/carrier gangs now, which will be a bit hilarious.

What is hilarious right now is there is a good counter for fighters, ecm burst. So ccp just made a rarely used module relevant again.
W33b3l
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-05-08 21:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: W33b3l
Why wouldn't something as huge as a carrier be able to swat away a few frigs and small ships like flies unless there was a crap load of them? Fighters should be able to hit anything, theyre smaller then a frig. I do need to do my research though. Like if they can still use drones and if fighter bombers in motherships can land hits on anything now as well.

I come a cross them on a rare occasion and until now, where no threat at all Unless I saw drones pop out. I liked it that way. They where just hauling stuff and I just wanted to See them cyno off. No threat to each other. Now I have to Worry about being an easy kill for the lols but it does make sense that it should he that way. I've always thought it was stupid that caps could only either fight other caps or large stationary objects. We've tanked a dread in a bs sitting still regardless of what mode it was in.

Just means I have to run from them now instead of going "ooooh pretty" until I get a handle on how,much damage they can do to what now.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2016-05-09 01:16:10 UTC
TL;DR version?
My band of Friendship inties can't hold down carriers anymore while we slowly kill it with 90 dps inties and now I have to actually field something of value to kill one abloobloobloo think of the small gang people!

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#17 - 2016-05-09 02:11:54 UTC
In this thread you may notice pilots wondering why they are not able to go against a capital one on one in a subcapital ship. They wonder why they're required to bring more ships on the field while previously they did not have to.

They forget to realize that currently fighters are extremely easy to kill and maybe instead of complaining about the damage carriers do, they should think of a way to reduce this damage output...maybe by shooting fighters.

Spaceprincess

People who put passwords on char bazaar Eveboards are the worst.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#18 - 2016-05-09 05:06:18 UTC
Katherine Gray wrote:
Thomas Lot wrote:
This is already hashed out and locked in two separate threads. Would someone please lock this one as well?!


Why would this thread be locked? No rules were broken. Just a discussion about a eve related topic. :)


this is actually ranting and definitely against forum rules.

Just Add Water
Katherine Gray
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-05-09 10:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Gray
lanyaie wrote:
In this thread you may notice pilots wondering why they are not able to go against a capital one on one in a subcapital ship. They wonder why they're required to bring more ships on the field while previously they did not have to.

They forget to realize that currently fighters are extremely easy to kill and maybe instead of complaining about the damage carriers do, they should think of a way to reduce this damage output...maybe by shooting fighters.


It's hard for them to shoot fighters cause half their fleet is gone before they are able to drop drones / engage.
And then they have to decide if they sacrafice the other half for a squadrone of fighters or if they warp out.

https://zkillboard.com/related/30003634/201605021000/
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#20 - 2016-05-09 11:41:57 UTC
Katherine Gray wrote:
It's hard for them to shoot fighters cause half their fleet is gone before they are able to drop drones / engage.
And then they have to decide if they sacrafice the other half for a squadrone of fighters or if they warp out.

https://zkillboard.com/related/30003634/201605021000/

Finally, maybe cruisers online will end now. Best change from Fozzman and Hardcore Rise in years.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
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