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Gallente Redesign
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Monica Sharezan
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#201 - 2011-12-27 22:20:16 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Monica Sharezan wrote:
i wasnt comparing my killboard at all where did i say anything about mine? i am a logi pilot i dont care about killboards nor ever will ... but i do know someone who loses a ship almost everyday with billions and billions in isk lost on subcapital pvp looks like crap to me


To me, I'd say that simply means that they PVP a lot and have a pretty good ship replacement infrastructure. In all fairness, you can't even look at his specific fits and guarantee to know whether he's decent at fitting ships. A lot of alliances have "standard fits" that you had goddamn well better use - or else.

A quick perusal of his KB history says that he tends to kill in 5-30 man gangs and be killed by the same. Maybe you dug deeper than I did and you'd be willing to justify it outside of "lol he loses ships"?

-Liang


yes i did ... he flies nano drakes and arty canes mostly ... and still dies all the time ... i mean cmon learn to align and warp out when getting primaried mb? use your range and speed advantage to not get tackled and kite from range as your supposed to ... but nope he either doesnt align out or fails to use his speed advantage. and considering all this while using fits that can get away from pretty much anything is bad .... is that enough for you? =)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#202 - 2011-12-27 22:23:43 UTC
Monica Sharezan wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Monica Sharezan wrote:
i wasnt comparing my killboard at all where did i say anything about mine? i am a logi pilot i dont care about killboards nor ever will ... but i do know someone who loses a ship almost everyday with billions and billions in isk lost on subcapital pvp looks like crap to me


To me, I'd say that simply means that they PVP a lot and have a pretty good ship replacement infrastructure. In all fairness, you can't even look at his specific fits and guarantee to know whether he's decent at fitting ships. A lot of alliances have "standard fits" that you had goddamn well better use - or else.

A quick perusal of his KB history says that he tends to kill in 5-30 man gangs and be killed by the same. Maybe you dug deeper than I did and you'd be willing to justify it outside of "lol he loses ships"?

-Liang


yes i did ... he flies nano drakes and arty canes mostly ... and still dies all the time ... i mean cmon learn to align and warp out when getting primaried mb? use your range and speed advantage to not get tackled and kite from range as your supposed to ... but nope he either doesnt align out or fails to use his speed advantage. and considering all this while using fits that can get away from pretty much anything is bad .... is that enough for you? =)


Guess you'd call this guy terrible too:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Naxias#losses

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Monica Sharezan
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#203 - 2011-12-27 22:28:06 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Monica Sharezan wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Monica Sharezan wrote:
i wasnt comparing my killboard at all where did i say anything about mine? i am a logi pilot i dont care about killboards nor ever will ... but i do know someone who loses a ship almost everyday with billions and billions in isk lost on subcapital pvp looks like crap to me


To me, I'd say that simply means that they PVP a lot and have a pretty good ship replacement infrastructure. In all fairness, you can't even look at his specific fits and guarantee to know whether he's decent at fitting ships. A lot of alliances have "standard fits" that you had goddamn well better use - or else.

A quick perusal of his KB history says that he tends to kill in 5-30 man gangs and be killed by the same. Maybe you dug deeper than I did and you'd be willing to justify it outside of "lol he loses ships"?

-Liang


yes i did ... he flies nano drakes and arty canes mostly ... and still dies all the time ... i mean cmon learn to align and warp out when getting primaried mb? use your range and speed advantage to not get tackled and kite from range as your supposed to ... but nope he either doesnt align out or fails to use his speed advantage. and considering all this while using fits that can get away from pretty much anything is bad .... is that enough for you? =)


Guess you'd call this guy terrible too:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Naxias#losses

-Liang


well that person actually has the points to justify the losses as they are ranked #66 ... showing that they fight when outnumbered and win or kill people that have bigger ships then them ... that person is good and obviously better then mfume. Mfume only has 10% of the ranking points as that person does ... proving what i said about KM whoring. ..... also why are you trying to defend this guy so bad?
Monica Sharezan
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#204 - 2011-12-27 22:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Monica Sharezan
edit double post =)
Fade Azura
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#205 - 2011-12-27 22:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Fade Azura
DOH!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#206 - 2011-12-27 22:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Monica Sharezan wrote:

well that person actually has the points to justify the losses as they are ranked #66 ... showing that they fight when outnumbered and win or kill people that have bigger ships then them ... that person is good and obviously better then mfume. Mfume only has 10% of the ranking points as that person does ... proving what i said about KM whoring. ..... also why are you trying to defend this guy so bad?


So you come into the thread and start attacking someone not on the merit of their ideas and arguments, but on their fairly reasonable KB history. My automatic hatred of KBs means your argument immediately set my teeth on edge, and then when I prodded you about it you say its because they (gasp!) lose ships. To me, KBs are at best a history that I can look back at and reminisce over Epic Fights.

You're using it as some kind of epeen measuring stick to bash someone with - and the dubious manner in which you're using it leaves me disinclined to let it stand. Frankly, I'd defend Naomi against this kind of argument (and I really dislike him/her) if she had the same KB record as Mfume.

-Liang

Ed: Also, Fade... her entire argument is "lol he loses ships". That's not really a useful thing to say or argument against someone.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Monica Sharezan
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#207 - 2011-12-27 22:42:23 UTC
well when i see someone attacking other people and using their killboard to try and justify their claims i decided to look to see if there was any merit or if it was as i suspected just a typical nullsec blobbing noob with no skills who thinks they are special because they KM whored on tons of kills.

i guess when people act like that they put themselves up for criticism and thats what they got ... ironic isnt it? =)

time to go BUH BYE
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#208 - 2011-12-27 22:45:10 UTC
Monica Sharezan wrote:
well when i see someone attacking other people and using their killboard to try and justify their claims i decided to look to see if there was any merit or if it was as i suspected just a typical nullsec blobbing noob with no skills who thinks they are special because they KM whored on tons of kills.

i guess when people act like that they put themselves up for criticism and thats what they got ... ironic isnt it? =)

time to go BUH BYE


The irony here is ******* hilarious.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2011-12-27 22:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sebastian N Cain
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
hi 0 , pls tell us what disadvantage minmatar has if has any cause it doesnt...
join with your lame matard buddies like the braindead Mfumu or lililu , and make a suggestion how to balance this game

with lower resists matar ships would be less tanky than the others , would nicely balance out the superior speed sign agility no cap use selecatble dmg type easy fitting imba alpha etc advantages


lol, this is your ally Sebastian.


Well, i never wanted to nerf Minmatar.
Sure, i am saying they should take over the close combat and sniping roles, but not because i want to push them into a few niches like the Gallente. It´s because i am quite sure they can actually make close combat as tactic competitive in all kinds of situations, from solo to fleetfights. They only need the tracking and a bit more dps, and probably even more speed and agility (and the Minmatar don´t have an upper limit like the others here).

In fact, if they would have gotten the buff the Gallente received, you would have now the perfect close combat race, no wishes left, practically all problems solved this tactic brings with it.

While the Gallente... they work now somewhat better in the niches they worked before... big deal. Still way from where you need them to be to make them viable in areas they were useless before. And since the solutions up to now have driven the Gallente halfway to the Minmatar design and the solutions for the problems still in the pipeline apparently would push them the rest of the way there (this is what the devs -according to their own words- want to avoid: making the Gallente too similar to Minmatar, so apparently this can be an issue when applying solutions), why not use Minmatar in the first place?

And you can hardly call this a nerf... or do you want to suggest adopting the Gallente tactic in itself would already be a nerf?

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Monica Sharezan
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#210 - 2011-12-27 23:59:41 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Monica Sharezan wrote:
well when i see someone attacking other people and using their killboard to try and justify their claims i decided to look to see if there was any merit or if it was as i suspected just a typical nullsec blobbing noob with no skills who thinks they are special because they KM whored on tons of kills.

i guess when people act like that they put themselves up for criticism and thats what they got ... ironic isnt it? =)

time to go BUH BYE


The irony here is ******* hilarious.

-Liang


and i apologize for my adolescent deconstruction of Mfume's Killboard. I too get angry when i see people attacking other people .... it seems like everyone wants to 1-up the next guy here in some way. in the end we are all more alike then we would like to admit. but somehow end up communicating to each other on the negative side of the spectrum. seems like these forums breed these type of social interactions.

I am sure Mfume is a great fleet member and good soldier for his corporation and apologoze to him as well.

cant we all just get along? Sad

i will energy rep you liang ... if you energy rep me back P
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#211 - 2011-12-28 00:01:37 UTC
Monica Sharezan wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Monica Sharezan wrote:
well when i see someone attacking other people and using their killboard to try and justify their claims i decided to look to see if there was any merit or if it was as i suspected just a typical nullsec blobbing noob with no skills who thinks they are special because they KM whored on tons of kills.

i guess when people act like that they put themselves up for criticism and thats what they got ... ironic isnt it? =)

time to go BUH BYE


The irony here is ******* hilarious.

-Liang


and i apologize for my adolescent deconstruction of Mfume's Killboard. I too get angry when i see people attacking other people .... it seems like everyone wants to 1-up the next guy here in some way. in the end we are all more alike then we would like to admit. but somehow end up communicating to each other on the negative side of the spectrum. seems like these forums breed these type of social interactions.

I am sure Mfume is a great fleet member and good soldier for his corporation and apologoze to him as well.

cant we all just get along? Sad

i will energy rep you liang ... if you energy rep me back P




<3

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2011-12-28 00:36:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Monica Sharezan wrote:
snip


never claimed to be elite lol

i was just saying that certain people in this thread are making outrageous claims. they are also posting from forum alts. two of the people posting that gallente and blasters are fine/balanced are sub 100 BC ranks, so if you think im actually bad this game, take their word for it instead.

edit: just realized i have more kills in gallente ship (lach) than any other this month, oh yeaa
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#213 - 2011-12-28 02:01:03 UTC
What i am seeing is;
"Claim!"
"Counterclaim"
"lolfag"
"no u"
"I looked at ur KB u is nub trololol"
"My KB is immaterial cause I'm a logi pilot"
"Well, so am I"

Right. STFU and GTFO the conversation if you are a logi pilot.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2011-12-28 02:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sebastian N Cain
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Monica Sharezan wrote:
snip


never claimed to be elite lol

i was just saying that certain people in this thread are making outrageous claims. they are also posting from forum alts. two of the people posting that gallente and blasters are fine/balanced are sub 100 BC ranks, so if you think im actually bad this game, take their word for it instead.

edit: just realized i have more kills in gallente ship (lach) than any other this month, oh yeaa

The devs obviously don´t agree with those leet persona, since -last we heard regarding that topic from them- they are still working on a load of problems the blasters still have. Because -according to them- what they want to achieve is making close combat a widespread and viable tactic for all kinds of situations.

So the apparently awesome pvp ranking didn´t help the allegedly leet legends of pvp in any way to know what they are talking about (since their "working as intended" doesn´t match the actual intentions of the ones actually creating the game). It just meant they are adapted well to the current situation and don´t want it to change.
That much for the usefulness of using kb-entries or stats as qualification.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#215 - 2011-12-28 03:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Monica Sharezan wrote:
snip


never claimed to be elite lol

i was just saying that certain people in this thread are making outrageous claims. they are also posting from forum alts. two of the people posting that gallente and blasters are fine/balanced are sub 100 BC ranks, so if you think im actually bad this game, take their word for it instead.

edit: just realized i have more kills in gallente ship (lach) than any other this month, oh yeaa

The devs obviously don´t agree with those leet persona, since -last we heard regarding that topic from them- they are still working on a load of problems the blasters still have. Because -according to them- what they want to achieve is making close combat a widespread and viable tactic for all kinds of situations.

So the apparently awesome pvp ranking didn´t help the allegedly leet legends of pvp in any way to know what they are talking about (since their "working as intended" doesn´t match the actual intentions of the ones actually creating the game). It just meant they are adapted well to the current situation and don´t want it to change.
That much for the usefulness of using kb-entries or stats as qualification.


Funny, last I saw they were mostly happy with the way hybrids perform and were going to work on individual ship issues.... ?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2011-12-28 04:18:28 UTC
From CCP Tallest in the Test Server Feedback thread for hybrids:

As you may have noticed, I have been afk for the last week or so.
I am back at work now and will try to address the concerns that have been expressed while I was away.

As Soundwave and Affinity have explained for me in my absence, the cutoff date for changes that make it into the Crucible expansion has already passed (and had already passed when I went away).

As it turned out, I only had time to do one extra pass on the changes after they hit SISI. These changes (to the changes) were based on your feedback from this thread. There were many other suggestions here that I would love to do, but didn't have enough time to do them properly for this release. In the future, I will make sure that I have more time to make changes based on your feedback. The feedback that you was posted after the cutoff is far from worthless. I've read every single post and written down notes for future reference.

What we have now is a start. After Crucible come out, I will definitely be doing further balancing.
Here are some of the things relating to hybrid ships that we will be looking further into in the coming weeks/months:

* Further tweaking of individual ships.
* Tech II ammo needs a better look at, especially Null-Scorch-Barrage.
* Active tanking vs passive tanking. And by extension, armor tanking vs shield tanking.
* Small and Medium Webifier drones.
* Give tech I hybrid ammo variations for each range, like projectile ammo. Maybe the same for lasers.
* Something to help blaster ships get into range. There are several good suggestions on how to do this; Webifier range bonus, MWD speed bonus, change the armor rig penalty, increase base speed or even a new type of module. We might do some of them, all of them or something completely different.

p.s. I have also updated the OP with the final list of changes.

So it sounds like the guns themselves are performing as expected, which imo is correct, but they're going to keep addressing the ships themselves to address the things that we've been talking about in this thread, i.e. speed, armor rig penalties, etc. Seems to me CCP thinks that while the guns are fine by themselves, the platforms need lots of work.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2011-12-28 05:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
So the apparently awesome pvp ranking didn´t help the allegedly leet legends of pvp in any way to know what they are talking about (since their "working as intended" doesn´t match the actual intentions of the ones actually creating the game). It just meant they are adapted well to the current situation and don´t want it to change.
That much for the usefulness of using kb-entries or stats as qualification.


Well, shifts in the metagame take awhile to happen, so I'm pretty sure any kind of "man, these hybrids still aren't topping the KB? boost again!" is going to result in a whiplash effect down the road where we all realize, "holy ****, blasters are OP, everyone train this ****!" Ofc, the popularity is going to restrained on armor platforms, just because armor generally means committing balls-deep into a fight and when you go balls deep, anything that tips the scales against you means you die.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2011-12-28 06:28:57 UTC
Monica Sharezan wrote:
well when i see someone attacking other people and using their killboard to try and justify their claims i decided to look to see if there was any merit or if it was as i suspected just a typical nullsec blobbing noob with no skills who thinks they are special because they KM whored on tons of kills.

i guess when people act like that they put themselves up for criticism and thats what they got ... ironic isnt it? =)

time to go BUH BYE



Oddly enough I've fought that nullsec blobbing nub.

They my poor fleet stabber actually

They rolled into our staging system maybe 30 deep in an ahac gang which is kinda ballzy with 160 or so in local. It's was a decent game of tag till PL decided to **** titans all over it.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2011-12-28 06:53:39 UTC
Killboard epeening FTL. Ad hominum FTL. Attacking Mfune (who, for the record, I rarely agree with) and other posters combat records with THAT Monica toon is just silly. I dont always support alt posting - but in that situation, I daresay you shouldda used a noobcorp alt. ;)

And as something useful to say - someone suggested the idea of tweaking Gallent shps (base ship stat) with a quicker lock time - like to the equivilant of a sebo. It maks short range and tackle better, and doesnt reqire taking the vaunted 'fastest ship' title from the mimmies. It give Gallente the 'quickest tackle' niche at gates.

It makes rails better because they would be more effective at killing smaller support more quickly. It gives rails the 'quick damage' or 'support killer' niche in fleets.

And best of all, you dont have to make changes to any other racial weapons. All still have unique flavor to them to keep them unique.

Just something to kick around.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#220 - 2011-12-28 11:11:07 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Killboard epeening FTL. Ad hominum FTL. Attacking Mfune (who, for the record, I rarely agree with) and other posters combat records with THAT Monica toon is just silly. I dont always support alt posting - but in that situation, I daresay you shouldda used a noobcorp alt. ;)

And as something useful to say - someone suggested the idea of tweaking Gallent shps (base ship stat) with a quicker lock time - like to the equivilant of a sebo. It maks short range and tackle better, and doesnt reqire taking the vaunted 'fastest ship' title from the mimmies. It give Gallente the 'quickest tackle' niche at gates.

It makes rails better because they would be more effective at killing smaller support more quickly. It gives rails the 'quick damage' or 'support killer' niche in fleets.

And best of all, you dont have to make changes to any other racial weapons. All still have unique flavor to them to keep them unique.

Just something to kick around.


I agree that some matar advantages should be shared between the other races, but this change wouldnt rly solve hybrid ships problem, especially as it would only applied to gall ships only and do nothing to help caldari hybrid ships.
I still find it strange that the supposed to be electronics superior race caldari has the shittiest sensors...