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Gallente Redesign
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Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2011-12-27 13:14:48 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Sebastian N Cain wrote:

Actually no. First off, you can´t tell the circumstances why someone has no kb-history. For example, this is my main, yet a 9m-sp char does not reflect my experience. A hint: there were several occasions where people biomassed their chars because they were fed up with ccp but came back after quite a bit time.


You can get a biomassed character back.

Quote:
Second, most of the time killboards are just useful for stroking your epeen. People are bragging about how leet they are but they forget to mention all the stuff that really ensured their victory (like the 20 guys in your gang that also were in the fight when you defeated that bs or the fact that you were station camping).


A killmail and a decent KB shows those 20 other guys via the battle report. That you suggest otherwise implies you have little-to-no practical knowledge of what a killmail contains. Unless of course those 20 guys somehow managed to influence the fight without using a single offensive module.

Quote:
And third, it doesn´t really matter. Because the kind of fights you have ingame aren´t really useful for reference. You would need controlled fights with more or less evenly skilled pilots, so you can rule out most of the stuff that will screw up the results for proper balancing testing.


If this was the case, then we could safely throw out the accumulated killboard statistics entirely, since they are heavily influenced by the metagame (who's fighting, what they fly, how well they do) rather than actually acting as a indicator of ships stack relative to each other (unless you seriously believed that Drakes could defeat Abaddons in which case "u r dumb").

Quote:
So it´s more about theory and arguments here in the forums and frankly speaking, when discussing topics like game design and balancing you better don´t use killboards as quality control, but real-life diplomas and such. You don´t see companies that are developing games giving jobs to good players, for good reason.


This is completely false and you're making yourself seem clueless for even bringing it up. WH space, the current sov system, and mothership to supercarrier changes were designed largely by an EVE player (Seleene AKA CCP Abarthur). In other, better balanced games (i.e. professional tournaments like HoN, WoW, LoL, etc.), players are routinely brought in as balance and gameplay experts, because, shockingly enough, they know more about how to create a balanced, enjoyable experience than developers do.

1.Oh, i didn´t know i´m not allowed to build up a new toon instead... clearly a bannable offense...

2.Yet apparently some wannabe-leet pvp pros hope no one is calling them out for that. Baltec1 did exactly that: telling everyone that they don´t know how to fly blasterboats and how he could easily defeat an Amarr-bs with his mega and posted a kb-entry to prove it. Now guess if he mentioned the 20 or 30 other guys in his gang (that could indeed be seen in the kb-entry). And this is actually quite common when people want to use kb-entries to prove a point (and/or stroke their epeen).

3.Lets put it this way: you should always take it with a grain of salt. However, some factors at least even out in the accumulated stats, in a single fight it´s far worse. There are kb-entries where a single good pvp player defeated 10 or 15 beginners. When the player skill is dominating that fight so heavily, how do you want to read anything regarding ship balancing out of it? This is why i meant you need controlled fights -like on sisi- if you want to use them for balancing. Most fights in TQ aren`t that skewed, but you can´t really treat them as proof for your point either.

4.Well, i admit that i simplified things with my argument. Within hundreds of thousands or even millions of players there will be quite a few ones that are qualified for this stuff and/or actually know what they are doing regarding game balancing and design due to other reasons. But they are rather the exceptions than the rule and you can be really sure their kb-stats didn´t mean anything to get them into a position where they could contribute like this and got this standing within the community.
It was entirely due to other reasons or do you really think the devs looked at kb-entries and decided because of them whether seleenes idea was worthwile looking into or not? How about chribba, isn´t he just a clueless noob applying kb-stats as measurement?
My point still stands: kb-stats are a made-up wannabe qualification standard that doesn´t mean jack and it´s completely nonsense to use them for deciding whether an opinion has merit or not.
If what you are posting is logical and makes sense, if you can back up your opinion with arguments and if your arguments are solid are the only qualifications that can reasonably be used here in the forums.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#182 - 2011-12-27 15:23:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
1) Hybrid ammo is getting redone ala projectiles.
2) Laser crystals have a good chance of a redo as well.
3) Barrage vs. Null vs. Scorch is getting looked at.


So we will be able to select dmg type with our ammo ?
Our new ammo will have +tracking/fall off bonus too?
Our ammo will no longuer penalise cap since the guns themselves already use it to propulse candies at range?
Will the shortest range blaster ammo get rid of penalties and add serious bonus (range) to reward the time you spent training?

Quote:
4) Ways to get Gallante into range much faster are being looked at.
5) Expect many individual ship tweaks.


If you don't want to make hybrids like projectiles by giving them range, if you don't want to make blaster ships fast or faster than minmatar there's not much of a choice, all you'll do is duct tape here'n there but at the end nothing changes.

One thing that could make Blaster boats unique, usefull again, and not make guns/ships Minmatar alike is something I've already mentioned: the micro-warp-jump
The mechanic of this would be quite simple, only available on Blaster boats using MWD's, only available on unfriendly targets, would have some timer to avoid gamebreaking exploits, only available between 25 and 45km at BS size, 15 to 35 at BC/Cruise size and unavailabe at frigate size or capital/titan no matter the tech.

Here you are, the shortest range weapon system is still the shortest weapon system, will melt ya face if it ever gets on top of you but if you choose to play cat&rat games you better be warned that it might not be the fastest but you better be good and know what you're doing.
Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#183 - 2011-12-27 17:38:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Guillame Herschel
What if Gallente blaster boats got a bonus to afterburners that allowed them to go as fast on a AB as non-bonused ships do with a MWD? That would address the capacitor problem, and would give them immunity from scrams (well, not the 2 points of course). They'd also get a tasty low sig radius to help them live long enough to get in range.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#184 - 2011-12-27 17:57:33 UTC
What if winmatar imba ships get real disadvantages :like -30% resists ^^
Wog Cyllen
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2011-12-27 18:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Wog Cyllen
Naomi Knight wrote:
What if winmatar imba ships get real disadvantages :like -30% resists ^^


What if they put in place a forum check requiring persons wanting to post here to have a brain with at least 2 working neurons or score over 50 at a basic IQ test?

Whilst some "exciting" people like you will fail this, I'm sure that the rest of us, after the initial overwhelming sadness at the thought we'll never see your utter stupidity, we'll be able to get on with our lives. There might even be a chance for a decent and constructive discussion to happen here every now and then.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#186 - 2011-12-27 19:30:58 UTC
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
1.Oh, i didn´t know i´m not allowed to build up a new toon instead... clearly a bannable offense...


Not bannable, but certainly a headscratcher. The only people I know who do it are those who can no longer 'casually' pvp on their main because of clone costs and those banned for RMT. In most cases, at least that I've seen, their alt name is essentially the same as their main so linking the two is a given.

At any rate, why not just link your old main's KB?

Quote:
2.Yet apparently some wannabe-leet pvp pros hope no one is calling them out for that. Baltec1 did exactly that: telling everyone that they don´t know how to fly blasterboats and how he could easily defeat an Amarr-bs with his mega and posted a kb-entry to prove it. Now guess if he mentioned the 20 or 30 other guys in his gang (that could indeed be seen in the kb-entry). And this is actually quite common when people want to use kb-entries to prove a point (and/or stroke their epeen).


But like you said, he got called out on it. So what's the problem?

Quote:
4.Well, i admit that i simplified things with my argument. Within hundreds of thousands or even millions of players there will be quite a few ones that are qualified for this stuff and/or actually know what they are doing regarding game balancing and design due to other reasons. But they are rather the exceptions than the rule and you can be really sure their kb-stats didn´t mean anything to get them into a position where they could contribute like this and got this standing within the community.
It was entirely due to other reasons or do you really think the devs looked at kb-entries and decided because of them whether seleenes idea was worthwile looking into or not? How about chribba, isn´t he just a clueless noob applying kb-stats as measurement?


Chribba doesn't work for CCP and I've never seen him suggest anything related to game design.

And yes, a huge part of Seleene being selected and given free-reign was his history as a PvPer, I'm not sure why that is unbelievable to you. As far as other games go, bringing players on board to deal with game design has been an industry trend for around ten years now.

Quote:
My point still stands: kb-stats are a made-up wannabe qualification standard that doesn´t mean jack and it´s completely nonsense to use them for deciding whether an opinion has merit or not.
If what you are posting is logical and makes sense, if you can back up your opinion with arguments and if your arguments are solid are the only qualifications that can reasonably be used here in the forums.


You have some on the alt-posting legion claim that the people with active killboards don't actually play EVE. They also claim to use ridiculous Vaga fits (Goose99) to great effect. I know this isn't true and he knows I know it isn't true. The same for Naomi Knight, who doesn't actually PvP with any regularity outside of popping cynoalts, but at least has admitted that before.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2011-12-27 20:13:02 UTC
Wog Cyllen wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
What if winmatar imba ships get real disadvantages :like -30% resists ^^


What if they put in place a forum check requiring persons wanting to post here to have a brain with at least 2 working neurons or score over 50 at a basic IQ test?

Whilst some "exciting" people like you will fail this, I'm sure that the rest of us, after the initial overwhelming sadness at the thought we'll never see your utter stupidity, we'll be able to get on with our lives. There might even be a chance for a decent and constructive discussion to happen here every now and then.


hi 0 , pls tell us what disadvantage minmatar has if has any cause it doesnt...
join with your lame matard buddies like the braindead Mfumu or lililu , and make a suggestion how to balance this game

with lower resists matar ships would be less tanky than the others , would nicely balance out the superior speed sign agility no cap use selecatble dmg type easy fitting imba alpha etc advantages
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#188 - 2011-12-27 20:14:25 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
hi 0 , pls tell us what disadvantage minmatar has if has any cause it doesnt...
join with your lame matard buddies like the braindead Mfumu or lililu , and make a suggestion how to balance this game

with lower resists matar ships would be less tanky than the others , would nicely balance out the superior speed sign agility no cap use selecatble dmg type easy fitting imba alpha etc advantages


lol, this is your ally Sebastian.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2011-12-27 20:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
hi 0 , pls tell us what disadvantage minmatar has if has any cause it doesnt...
join with your lame matard buddies like the braindead Mfumu or lililu , and make a suggestion how to balance this game

with lower resists matar ships would be less tanky than the others , would nicely balance out the superior speed sign agility no cap use selecatble dmg type easy fitting imba alpha etc advantages


lol, this is your ally Sebastian.

see ? total braindead... typical matard pilot:P
whatever you write he will just keep repeating "matar is balanced" dogma
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2011-12-27 20:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Naomi Knight wrote:
see ? total braindead... typical matard pilot:P
whatever you write he will just keep repeating "matar is balanced" dogma


How would you know if Minmatar is balanced in PvP, you don't actually PvP.

Also:
Quote:
Mfume Apocal
Most Commonly Flown Ship: Drake
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2011-12-27 20:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
see ? total braindead... typical matard pilot:P
whatever you write he will just keep repeating "matar is balanced" dogma


How would you know if Minmatar is balanced in PvP, you don't actually PvP.

oh rly?:O how so? cause i have more kills than u ? who cares you only fly winmatar and drake anyway 0 blaster or rail ships must gave you very good impression how balanced hybrid ships are....

btw "tell us what disadvantage minmatar has" thx

most flown ship is the drake rofl yeah a prime example of a hybrid ships... matards ...
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#192 - 2011-12-27 21:13:03 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:

oh rly?:O how so? cause i have more kills than u? who cares you only fly winmatar and drake anyway 0 blaster or rail ships must gave you very good impression how balanced hybrid ships are...


Naomi Knight wrote:
btw why should i pvp when all of them is the same due to matar and to some extend amarr dominance


I guess I'd stop PvPing too if I lost a T3 stupidly while killing nothing but cynoalts v0v
Monica Sharezan
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#193 - 2011-12-27 21:26:37 UTC
the way blasters are designed gallente should be the fastest race without a doubt ..... looks like a big oversight by the developers when they made the game.

the guys with the shortest range turrets obviously need to catch people to kill them. the way it is now .. minmatar do the same dps or better with their selectable dmg types despite whatever numbers you see in EFT. and on top of outperforming the other turrets they can engage and disengage at will making them the king of PVP.

i could care less about the flavor of races and minmatar supposed to be the fastest. i mean cmon they got duct tape holding their ships together and use archaic weapon designs from back before man even starting exploring space ... but somehow they outperform these other societies who obviously should be technologically superior. and all you big whiners crying about maintaining racial flavor ... i mean wtf are you trying to roleplay or something? this is eve .. we blow up spaceships ... if you want to roleplay go back to WOW. game balance is much more important then some stupid racial flavoring for anyone that likes real pvp. and last time i checked this is a PVP game not a roleplaying game.

the only reason minmatar should be the fastest is if their turrets are weaker then everyone else. right now they got the best of everything and its clearly OP and in need of a big nerf.

TBH the game was much better balanced before they buffed projectiles as it was working as intended. now its just a minmatar blobfest
Monica Sharezan
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#194 - 2011-12-27 21:48:35 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:

oh rly?:O how so? cause i have more kills than u? who cares you only fly winmatar and drake anyway 0 blaster or rail ships must gave you very good impression how balanced hybrid ships are...


Naomi Knight wrote:
btw why should i pvp when all of them is the same due to matar and to some extend amarr dominance


I guess I'd stop PvPing too if I lost a T3 stupidly while killing nothing but cynoalts v0v



coming from someone who has lost 20 billion isk worth of ships in a little over a year. id have to say you are terrible at pvp and probably think you are good because of KM whoring in big fleet fights. you are far from being good at pvp and are not in any position to give advice on it
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#195 - 2011-12-27 21:56:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Monica Sharezan wrote:

coming from someone who has lost 20 billion isk worth of ships in a little over a year. id have to say you are terrible at pvp and probably think you are good because of KM whoring in big fleet fights. you are far from being good at pvp and are not in any position to give advice on it


Not to intrude on your killboard epeening, but its pretty funny comparing your kb history to his. I'll be straight up honest about my kb history - I despise them and unless I'm forced to I don't post kills or losses. I think avoiding KMs actually one of the reasons I've spent so much time in a Scimitar and Basilisk (at least on my two mains) over the last few years.

But hey, carry on! :)

-Liang

Ed: Honestly, I was expecting to see something like "BC Top 10 ranked" or something.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club
#196 - 2011-12-27 21:59:29 UTC
The problem with Gallente is that you have cap using guns, with cap using mwd, and with cap using active local armor tank.

Meaning you also require cap boosters and armor rig slots. When you are using mwd, blasters, and armor reps, your powergrid is rather limited.

Not to mention your capacitor runs out fairly quickly without injection of cap boosters.

The problem is compounded with the fact that Gallente ships are not very fast, they get penalties from armor rigs, and Gallente ships have Massive sig radius, taking more damage and EVEN MORE WHEN MWDING.

Not to mention Gallente has some stupid and lame information warfare.

WHO THE ******* IDEA WAS IT TO GIVE GALLENTE INFORMATION WARFARE?!!! INFORMATION WARFARE DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

The guy who thought of it needs to be fired and left to starve in the cold!


Information Warfare Should be Scrapped.

Gallente Should instead have CAPACITOR WARFARE.

Each level should increase your capacitor.

Then you have ganglinks that Reduce Capacitor Recharge Time, Energy Emission Duration, and Energy Emission Cost.
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2011-12-27 21:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Twylla
I just wrote all this junk out a minute ago and it vanished. Cry


Gallente Information Warfare command bonus options need to be retooled.


Keep the Signal Strength module

Gang bonus to range for all Ewar. This includes webs/scrams, disruptors

Gang Bonus to Scan Resolution



Possible tweaks to help Gallentean skirmish balance:

Fix Flux coils (I'm not sure if this is an indirect help or a shameless plug for a horrible module)
-Reduce Powergrid requirements for Cap injectors, reduce volume for boosters
-Reduce Powergrid requirements for Cap Batteries (significant gain in capacitor effectiveness for mid slots)
-Introduce a skill to reduce armor rep cap costs (as with shields)
-Increase ship agility (Minmatar can go fast.. in a straight line. Let Gallente take the speed at very close orbits)
-Increase tracking speed for Void rounds

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Monica Sharezan
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#198 - 2011-12-27 22:02:13 UTC
i wasnt comparing my killboard at all where did i say anything about mine? i am a logi pilot i dont care about killboards nor ever will ... but i do know someone who loses a ship almost everyday with billions and billions in isk lost on subcapital pvp looks like crap to me
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#199 - 2011-12-27 22:07:17 UTC
Pink Marshmellow wrote:

...


That's a lot of ill considered junk. For one thing, even if Gallente ships aren't Vagabond-fast (and they shouldn't be), they are still quite quick. In the last patch, several Hybrid ships got ~10% speed increases - but don't take my word for it, go look for yourself and see if you don't have a lot more success running people down.

Also, info links are ******* awesome for a variety of reasons, and one of the first things I ask when I log on vent is whether we have info links already up.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#200 - 2011-12-27 22:11:51 UTC
Monica Sharezan wrote:
i wasnt comparing my killboard at all where did i say anything about mine? i am a logi pilot i dont care about killboards nor ever will ... but i do know someone who loses a ship almost everyday with billions and billions in isk lost on subcapital pvp looks like crap to me


To me, I'd say that simply means that they PVP a lot and have a pretty good ship replacement infrastructure. In all fairness, you can't even look at his specific fits and guarantee to know whether he's decent at fitting ships. A lot of alliances have "standard fits" that you had goddamn well better use - or else.

A quick perusal of his KB history says that he tends to kill in 5-30 man gangs and be killed by the same. Maybe you dug deeper than I did and you'd be willing to justify it outside of "lol he loses ships"?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.