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Pirates.. a bone.. throw us a fricking one CCP
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Garmon
Gods Holy Light Bringing You're Penance
#41 - 2011-12-19 14:38:43 UTC
Hauling Hal wrote:
Pirate tears? Are these worth much on the market?


asking for a change = tears

The majority of the long term pirates that camps still honor ransoms, a cargo scanner that can scan pods would be a good addition to eve because ransoming is still a part of eve

And Jojo, if you're not trolling, you need to find a new game
I like Duncan
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#42 - 2011-12-19 14:47:10 UTC
Pirates need to look at themselves and how they conduct business before asking for CCP to add mechanics to favor them. Your argument is based off of allowing these mechanics for judging ransoms. However the art of ransoming died years ago when every weekand pirate decided to not honor ransoms. While there are some that still do its very rare and not enough for anyone to actually trust one. Not only that the idea of a "pod" scanner removes some risk/skill to ransoming. When before as a victim you could play coy and act like you don't have good implants. This allows a bit of haggling where its hit or miss for the pirate on whether or not he is asking to high or too low. With a Pod scanner it would just be "oh you have slaves, pay 1b".

Pirates in general need to realize that NO MECHANICS should be added to favor you. Actually just the opposite, you want mechanics to favor the carebear or potential target. Doing so will give more of a sense of security and cause more traffic in low-sec areas, which means more potential targets for you. This is why piracy in general is a dying profession, because every pirate wants it easy mode and doesn't want to work hard for kills. Then they gate camp highsec entry points and complain about low traffic.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#43 - 2011-12-19 15:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Garmon wrote:

And Jojo, if you're not trolling, you need to find a new game

IF there are any Pirates, who real take the ransom and let the victim fly after they paid .... they maybe should work together with all the ganked victims to get right of all this wannabes, who are the real reason, why noone belives "honoreble Pirats" (rofl, joke for itselve, "honoreble Pirates").

And this "honoreble Pirates" *g* should do everything, to get balance.

Else they just ask for tools to make their lifes even easier and more unbalanced as it is allready.


PS: there is a compareble game which I allready play ... to bad, the DEVs of this game do sero advertising :(.
Which means, the population for trader, producer, miner like me is to far to low :(.
PPS: oh and the one who call themselve PvP-players whine like in EvE to have no targets ^^.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Xoria Krint
The Angelic
#44 - 2011-12-19 15:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Xoria Krint
Pirates, scammers and all the scums in Eve has needed a bone for a long time. Scanning capsules for implants has been wanted for years. Even salvaging corpses for implants has been up for discussion, but CCP hates us (or maybe we don't cry enough, like the carebears). Bounty system has been broken for years, many scamming alternatives have been nerfed (pop-ups everywhere?) and where is the black market?

Honorable pirates are rare today. Please give us a nice ransoming system. Also it would be nice with some new features for the scums of New Eden. We are many out there that play this way, don't forget us CCP.

GIVE US SOME LOVE, EVE IS NOT CRUEL ENOUGH <3


And... To all the new players that don't understand the concept of Eve, please stop posting and HTFU.

Bitter vets, it's time to get the forums back
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#45 - 2011-12-19 15:21:18 UTC
Trevor Eve wrote:
Morganta wrote:


while the ideas are good and fairly sound, the real problem is trust.
most pilots will be fairly cautious of ransom offers, since its not too uncommon for modern pirates to just take the money and harvest even more tears


Good point, but this is already the case with ship ransoms, and "reputable" pirate corps will gain / have gained a reputation as being good for their word.

If a pod pilot thinks he might not be able to trust the enemy pirates, a suitable lower figure can be negotiated eg:

Pilot in pod scrammed has 3 bill in implants (crystal set)
Pirates offer him 1 bill ransom to be let go
He dosent really trust them and offers 500 mill as his assessment of risk/reward ratio
Pirates accept, and pod flys off

An incentive for "honourable" pirating will be the reputation gained by sticking to your word. Then the honourable pirates can demand a higher payout.



Why do you think this doesn't happen now?

(Hint: stuff drops)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Hemmo Paskiainen
#46 - 2011-12-19 15:29:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
double post

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Hemmo Paskiainen
#47 - 2011-12-19 15:29:46 UTC
fail carebear idea spotted,.... how many pvp fitted ships do u know that have extra mid slof for a scanner?

Exacly,... none.. better cry first how every ship needs extra mid slot

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Tribalic One
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2011-12-19 15:30:56 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Trevor Eve wrote:
Gogela wrote:

Confirmed. I for one would ransom and kill anyway.


Sure, so you gain reputation as not honour ransom.

You are a dreamer.

99,99% of the current playerbase will NEVER know the name of any Pirate and even if, they don't care about his "reputation". Most of them see Pirates as what they are: criminal idiots, who want to kill other peoples fun.

And with this, there is nothing like "reputation" for Pirates. Any victim knows: if my POD is tackeld, I can buy new implants and my day is ******.


I sense the essence of postmortem tears in this post. Twisted
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2011-12-19 15:40:25 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:

WHERE IS YOUR RISK ???
Sec status ?? MEGA ROFL


Going from -10 to something manageable is a pain in the ass.. its essentially forcing PvP players to PvE (and it sucks)

Jojo Jackson wrote:
No win from ganking ?? IMPOSIBLE as you know 100% what your vitim is carriing looooooong before you gank him !!


Not true, not in the slightest. Alot of ganking is dumb luck, since usually the more shiny stuff is on a ship- the more pissed off you will get at the drop anyway; I for one never scanned victims, and just you know- watched a mission undock for a bit, saw who was running missions faster then others, all your blitz T3's are pretty squishy can be one volley'd by a maelstrom and typically always drop about 1b in mods

Jojo Jackson wrote:
And he can do NOTHING to avoid this as there are NO COUNTER MODULS for pasive targeter and cargo scanners !


You are beginning to sound rather mad mate, calm down before you cause a scene

Jojo Jackson wrote:
Atm there are just two workarounds to counter this damn OP moduls which make Pirate life so ******* easy.
Transport contracts .... your next wish right? Transport contract scanner? ROFL !
Corp Hangers in Orcas.


There are already corp hangers in Orcas, I think the point the OP was getting at is, all the stuff in a Orca Corp Hangar should drop, and not just poof into space. Pretty sure pilots would try and get some of their stuff back if this was the case. I for one, would welcome a genuine spaceship piñata

Jojo Jackson wrote:
So before you have the right to ask for anything .... ASK FOR DAMN BALANCE SO YOUR VICTIMS GET THE SAME CHANGS AS YOU !!


In closing- You're an idiot (stop posting)
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#50 - 2011-12-19 15:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Xolve wrote:

Going from -10 to something manageable is a pain in the ass.. its essentially forcing PvP players to PvE (and it sucks)

Like gankers and pirates force us PvE player to do stuff we don't want and which sucks hardcore.
With all your fighting skills it's not even 1 hour of NPCing to recover this lol-secure.

Xolve wrote:

There are already corp hangers in Orcas, I think the point the OP was getting at is, all the stuff in a Orca Corp Hangar should drop, and not just poof into space. Pretty sure pilots would try and get some of their stuff back if this was the case. I for one, would welcome a genuine spaceship piñata

Orca Corp Hangar is just a bad workaround as the real anti mechic is not implemented -> anti passive & anti cargo scan moduls.
And now you ask to remove even this workaround?

Well, not posible as long as the main problem of missing moduls isn't fixed!
Nuf said kkthxbye

Xolve wrote:

In closing- You're an idiot (stop posting)

More wannabe Pirate tears plz rofl lol omg Twisted
Yes, stop your postings, they make no sense anyway.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#51 - 2011-12-19 16:35:39 UTC
Piracy and griefing are not the same.
Suicide ganking is not PVP either.


Good ideas? Maybe. This game is a good idea, but people suck, and they will ruin it. Just look at the C&P forum regarding the hunt for "crystal eggs" and we'll see what a pod scanner would really be used for.


-1

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#52 - 2011-12-19 16:44:53 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
You are a dreamer.

99,99% of the current playerbase will NEVER know the name of any Pirate and even if, they don't care about his "reputation". Most of them see Pirates as what they are: criminal idiots, who want to kill other peoples fun.

And with this, there is nothing like "reputation" for Pirates. Any victim knows: if my POD is tackeld, I can buy new implants and my day is ******.



This.
Trevor Eve
Doomheim
#53 - 2011-12-19 17:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Trevor Eve
"I WOULD NEVER PAY A PIRATE A RANSOM ON PRINCIPAL"

Fine, you dont have to. An accurate ransom offer can be ignored, and you can continue your game as before, refusing the convo when it comes in. A pod scanner does not effect this.

"PIRATES WOULD STILL POD ME AFTERWARDS"

Fine, you don't have to pay a ransom if you think this will happen. However, you may decide that in your 3 billion isk pod, you are prepared to risk 200 million isk on a ransom demand reasoning the odds are 50 you will be podded and the isk transferred is only 8%. You may not, that's fine also. Refuse the convo. A pod scanner does not effect this.

"PIRATES GET IT TO EASY ANYWAY"

Pirating as a profession was advertised on the box back in the day (2003?). If was listed next to mining, manufacturing, empire building, trading etc.

Pirating as a profession is THE most nerfed profession in the game. The last boost was the HIC (which was a dual benefit with 0.0 pilots) and the laughable Battleship Rats in lowsec. It is without doubt THE worst profession in terms of isk, and the addition of jump freighters basically ruined the requirement to haul items through space. You have a situation whereby to pay for youe 300 million isk *boo hoo etc*. I am not asking for outlaw and pirate characters to be given free isk - I am asking for a chance for pirates to ply their profession more.. well.. professionally.

"THE GRIEFERS WILL POD EGGS WITH GOOD IMPLANTS"

Firstly, an active pod is pretty much invulnerable in high sec. Anyone flying around afk in a 3 bill pos without getting into their FREE noob ship is playing with fire.

Currently though we have a situation whereby ANY AFK pod is squished when rolling through high sec on AP. Go check out the TEARS killboards amongst others.

"THIS XXX MECHANISM WOULD BE A GOOD WAY TO ENSURE RANSOMS WERE HONEST"

All interesting ideas, and I fully agree that a ransom mechanism would be nice, but these ideas would take CCP *effort*. A pod scanner would not, and would put the tools into the players hands in this sandbox. A couple of days and it would be programmed.

PIRATES NEVER TAKE RANSOMS AND LET ME GO

There are many "reputable" pirate corps who will. You may not have heard of them because you do not live in the areas they operate. Failing to honor a ransom will lead to your ejection and corp killing in many pirate groups.

However, if you believe the above is true, refuse the ransom opportunity. The addition of a pod scanner does not change this.

GANKING IN HIGH SEC IS ALREADY...

High sec ganking will not be effected at al lby this. I am talking about low sec piracy

Suiciding is not Griefing is not Piracy

"PIRATE TEARS, I HATE PIRATES, A PIRATE KILLED ME ONCE AND IM STILL ANGRY"

The pod scanner would work both ways. Perhaps an anti pirate squad would like to come kill my ships and ransom my pod.. I will pay you !



That pretty much clears up all the counter arguments.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#54 - 2011-12-19 17:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
With all your arguments ....

Why do you have a problem to introduce balance?

PvP players allways cry for balance ... but it seams, they only cry, when it favors their Sandbox ... which is NO balance!

You have a tool to see, what I carry around ..... where is my tool to stop you from doing so ??
Active modul called: "Cargo Cover Field".

You have a tool to lock me without me beeing able to detect it ... where is my modul which let me detect it ??
Active modul called: "Improved lock detector".

You claim to be an honoreble Pirate ... but your honor ends when it comes to balance!
And with this you are in no way better then any highsec ganker!

PS: Orca Corp Hangar?
Well ok, let's introduce a new Ship which has build in scanners for cargo, egg and can cover-lock. And with the same patch remove any cargo scanner and passive targeter Modul.

We have ONE SHIP which can hide stuff ... so you deserve ONE SHIP which can do the job you want ... and you are allowed to use just THIS ONE which must cost the same price a Orca cost!
No? Well, then there is no way around ... anti tools MUST come!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Trevor Eve
Doomheim
#55 - 2011-12-19 17:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Trevor Eve
Jojo Jackson wrote:
With all your arguments ....

Why do you have a problem to introduce balance?

PvP players allways cry for balance ... but it seams, they only cry, when it favors their Sandbox ... which is NO balance!

You have a tool to see, what I carry around ..... where is my tool to stop you from doing so ??
Active modul called: "Cargo Cover Field".

You have a tool to lock me without me beeing able to detect it ... where is my modul which let me detect it ??
Active modul called: "Improved lock detector".


Well your ideas are currently in operation already to an extent.

Module Scanners already have a random chance of showing the correct items. Sometimes you wont see modules that are there, sometimes you see multiple modules when there are only 1

Visibility we already have a situation where by a big red beam shoots out of the scanning ship, and a noise will play on the haulers client (if he has sound on). Its easy to see if you are being scanned if you are alert (interestingly this was a suicide ganking nerf of about 2 years ago, one of a long long list of suiciding nerfs )

Active modules like you suggest are interesting ideas. It is of notem however, that pods have no fitting slots, so would not affect the op pod scanner suggestion

Again, you are talking mainly about HIGH SEC SUICIDING, not the profession of PIRACY which is what I am talking about.

EDIT: A new ship that can scan - Yes excelent Idea, I would love this. And it would give CCP the chance to actualy design a ship with a usefull role.. I however, after years of experience of CCP, offer the path of least resistance - and can see a moudle would be a lot easier to create then a new ship.
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#56 - 2011-12-19 18:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Alistair Cononach
Morganta wrote:
]

while the ideas are good and fairly sound, the real problem is trust.
most pilots will be fairly cautious of ransom offers, since its not too uncommon for modern pirates to just take the money and harvest even more tears


Which is why the game itself would need some kind of system to manage/enforce it, which isn't sandbox.

Some kind of click box, first to offer terms, second for the victim to accept or decline, and including a time limit.

When terms are sent, all modules on both parties deactivate except for the point, and capacitors are frozen.

Click decline ont he offer, and it's fire-fire for both parties. Click accept, and the victim who accepted would become untargetable for 10 seconds (to warp out).

Thats the only way it would work, and even then it's only good for 1 vs 1 situations. And I'd be no one anywhere actually wants that.

Hecne we got what we got, only an absolute moron would pay a ransom, and ransoming anyone but total noobs is not a legitimate profession in EVE, because we all know not to trust piwates to their word.

So choose which evil is lesser, a system enforced ransom system (which would allow it to be a profession), or the current situation of no limitations and generally, no ransoms.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#57 - 2011-12-19 18:10:13 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Trevor Eve wrote:
Gogela wrote:

Confirmed. I for one would ransom and kill anyway.


Sure, so you gain reputation as not honour ransom.

You are a dreamer.

99,99% of the current playerbase will NEVER know the name of any Pirate and even if, they don't care about his "reputation". Most of them see Pirates as what they are: criminal idiots, who want to kill other peoples fun.

And with this, there is nothing like "reputation" for Pirates. Any victim knows: if my POD is tackeld, I can buy new implants and my day is ******.


Show me where the pirate touched you... damn.

I have honored every ransom I have ever offered anyone, and the 1 time I have had my pod ransomed, it was paid, I was let go, all good.

I think "killing after ransoming anyway" is not as common as most seem to believe it is. I would happily pay to keep my snakes or w/e, even if its just a set of +3s, hey, isk saved is isk saved. Im amazed more people dont... must be a blow to the e-ego or something.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Trevor Eve
Doomheim
#58 - 2011-12-19 18:10:43 UTC
Alistair Cononach wrote:
Morganta wrote:
]

while the ideas are good and fairly sound, the real problem is trust.
most pilots will be fairly cautious of ransom offers, since its not too uncommon for modern pirates to just take the money and harvest even more tears


Which is why the game itself would need some kind of system to manage/enforce it, which isn't sandbox.

Some kind of click box, first to offer terms, second for the victim to accept or decline, and including a time limit.

When terms are sent, all modules on both parties deactivate except for the point, and capacitors are frozen.

Click decline ont he offer, and it's fire-fire for both parties. Click accept, and the victim who accepted would become untargetable for 10 seconds (to warp out).

Thats the only way it would work, and even then it's only good for 1 vs 1 situations. And I'd be no one anywhere actually wants that.

Hecne we got what we got, only an absolute moron would pay a ransom, and ransoming anyone but total noobs is not a legitimate profession in EVE, because we all know not to trust piwates to their word.

So choose which evil is lesser, a system enforced ransom system (which would allow it to be a profession), or the current situation of no limitations and generally, no ransoms.


There are many ways in which a ransom system could be enforced but that would require work and effort from CCP.

A pod scanner would not require much work, and pilots like yourself who would refuse to pay a ransom, are still at liberty to refuse the ransom.

The counter arguments that are now appearing in this thread are not "this would make MY game worse", and are boiled down to:

"this would not impact me at all, my game style will remain the same, I just dont want YOUR game improved because I am spiteful"
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2011-12-19 18:11:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
Jojo Jackson wrote:
More wannabe Pirate tears plz rofl lol omg Twisted
Yes, stop your postings, they make no sense anyway.


So I'm a pirate now? And where are these tears you speak of?

While I'm at it... MODULE
Ghoest
#60 - 2011-12-19 18:53:05 UTC
Suggestion 1 is idiotic. Why?
Its a huge waste of dev resources.

Relative to the total game its actually quite rare that you are able to hold and scan someones cargo in lowsec.
Its going to be even more rare that they have implants worth rasoming and even more rare that they are willing to pay.

I could care less if such scanners existed - but its the last thing we need dev resources wasted on.




If you want to encourage piracy - get rid of jump freighters.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are