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Wall of PLEX article on the Mittani

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virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-05-03 16:13:29 UTC
Can anyone make sense of this please?
https://www.themittani.com/features/plex-wall-incident

The way I read it the scheme results in leveraging skills to get buy up orders up and then selling to those buy orders to get the escrow ISK back in hand. Repeat multiple times, and you are left with a ton of buy orders and sod all ISK in escrow.
Pro - it all went up at the cheaper tax/broker rate.
Con- you still need to pay 76% remaining on each PLEX sold to your buys.

Thoughts?
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#2 - 2016-05-03 16:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhivre
virm pasuul wrote:
Can anyone make sense of this please?
https://www.themittani.com/features/plex-wall-incident

The way I read it the scheme results in leveraging skills to get buy up orders up and then selling to those buy orders to get the escrow ISK back in hand. Repeat multiple times, and you are left with a ton of buy orders and sod all ISK in escrow.
Pro - it all went up at the cheaper tax/broker rate.
Con- you still need to pay 76% remaining on each PLEX sold to your buys.

Thoughts?


Basically, extreme leveraging

Move the items up one order at a time

Sell

The profit is the % you make on the sale, which, when compared to your initial investment is a big return.

1% profit on 18T is 180b, 2% is 360b etc etc etc, which seeing as you only initially tie up a fraction of 18T in isk, is a good investment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM78EzeCM1Y&feature=youtu.be&t=1h24m48s and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2PxpFP3WWQ&feature=youtu.be&t=49m39s cover it a bit more

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#3 - 2016-05-03 23:42:36 UTC
Soon you will be able to buy plex at 0% broker with region wide orders in citadels, I don't think he though about this.
Zahara Cody
Imperial Corrections Service.
#4 - 2016-05-04 00:20:56 UTC
The Great Wall of PLEX

Hating is free, that's why poor people do it the best.
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#5 - 2016-05-04 01:37:24 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
The way I read it the scheme results in leveraging skills to get buy up orders up and then selling to those buy orders to get the escrow ISK back in hand. Repeat multiple times, and you are left with a ton of buy orders and sod all ISK in escrow.


Leaving aside Fun Fin's "contributions", I admit I don't get it either. As far as I can tell (elsethread) the idea is to sell them fast enough that you always have ISK to buy when people sell to your buy offers; but I don't see how you can possibly guarantee that (especially if you have successfully tied up all your ISK), let alone turn a profit on each one - and if you did tie up all your ISK, you _have_ to turn a profit on each one or the whole edifice of margin traded buy offers collapses at once leaving you out for all the broker fees.

I suspect probag Bear has been saved by not dumping all their capital into it; they may well have succeeded in buying a lot of PLEX and presumably the price will go up again, sooner or later. I'd be fascinated to hear from them how it all worked out.
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#6 - 2016-05-04 02:03:36 UTC
Removed an off topic post.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#7 - 2016-05-04 05:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Aaron Honk wrote:
Soon you will be able to buy plex at 0% broker with region wide orders in citadels, I don't think he though about this.



But citadels can make region wide orders? I doubt that.
It would be very funny is Joe citadel in a secluded system can place orders with 0% broker fees in Mark citadels a guy that hate him and has set his fee at 110%.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#8 - 2016-05-04 14:49:22 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
Soon you will be able to buy plex at 0% broker with region wide orders in citadels, I don't think he though about this.



I think he has. It's the reason his business model wasn't infinitely scaleable.

The thing to note is that there were many other pressures on the PLEX price over the same period. Remains to be seen how it all shakes out.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#9 - 2016-05-04 15:51:16 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
Soon you will be able to buy plex at 0% broker with region wide orders in citadels, I don't think he though about this.



But citadels can make region wide orders? I doubt that.
It would be very funny is Joe citadel in a secluded system can place orders with 0% broker fees in Mark citadels a guy that hate him and has set his fee at 1105.


It works on SiSi
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#10 - 2016-05-04 16:10:19 UTC
The concern about 0% broker fees is valid, provided he hasnt made any profit on his original investment by the time people offshore in the citadels, or that he is unable to make any profit on the orders after that.

It also assumes that the altruistic owner of the citadel is happy having 0% fees, and no trade at all coming into his actual citadel.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Cista2
EVE Museum
#11 - 2016-05-04 16:16:43 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
It works on SiSi

Well that is a boon for citadels I must say (region-wide orders).

My channel: "Signatures" -
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#12 - 2016-05-04 16:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhivre
Cista2 wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
It works on SiSi

Well that is a boon for citadels I must say (region-wide orders).



Yep, provided it is 1-2 jumps of a trade hub, it will be handy for buy orders being set up. Any further out and you get all the awful stations.

It is that you cant see buy orders in the citadel if you cant dock & use the market, and you cant buy from sells there either (But, if they are near hubs, they will mostly be used for placing buys on low margin items, so wont have too many sells there)

EDIT: Also of importance is that all services are turned off if it hits the 2nd RF.

So, in HS this would work like this:

Structure becomes vulnerable, shield is shot down
24hr Reinforced mode
Armor becomes vulnerable, is shot down

All services now go offline, and there is 6d before the hull is vulnerable

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Darkstar01
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-05-04 16:45:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkstar01
I'm a little bit puzzled.

According to probag Bear, if he had thrown his personal wallet into it, it would have been a buy order for 85 Trillion worth of PLEX. Then, he was offered a loan to do 300 Trillion, and then he was offered another loan to do 1200 Trillion before the patch.

So assuming that he got the loan to do 1200 Trillion before patch - if we talk about the fees involved pre-patch (around 0.25%??) - that's about a 3 - 4 Trillion ISK loan. So he was offered a 3 - 4 Trillion ISK loan to do this.

According to CCP's monthly economic report (and as CCP mentioned during the FanFest), there is currently a little under 1000 Trillion ISK in existence, in the Eve Online universe - this is the sum of all ISK combined throughout Player and Corporation wallets.

So if someone were to spend real money to buy 1200 Trillion worth of PLEX, it would be mechanically impossible to sell them for 1200 Trillion ISK. What I mean is, there is no such thing as "1200 Trillion worth of PLEX", or "1200 Trillion worth of anything" - because that kind of ISK does not exist in the Eve Online Universe yet.

Anyway, so if this entire thing worked out, according to him, there would have been 280,000 PLEX traded on April 27. If that happened, it would represent 28% of all the ISK in existence in the entire Eve Online Universe, within 1 day.......does that seem like fuzzy math to anyone? :P

Also I wonder, after spending 3 - 4 Trillion ISK just to set up the buy orders before the patch, how much ISK is there left to cover the actual PLEX purchases?
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#14 - 2016-05-04 16:49:51 UTC
To add insult to injury, you can't see where the order originate from, so you can't wardec the citadel that put this auction on the market

https://i.imgur.com/WYcFb1Y.png
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#15 - 2016-05-04 17:34:54 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
To add insult to injury, you can't see where the order originate from, so you can't wardec the citadel that put this auction on the market

https://i.imgur.com/WYcFb1Y.png



you can though?

It says "Jumps = System"

So, if it says jumps = 5 you can find the citadel.

There might be hundreds of citadels 1-2 jumps from jita, which makes it harder, but, if its just 1-2 in each system, then its easier.

Its not like wardecs are expensive either.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#16 - 2016-05-04 17:40:15 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
To add insult to injury, you can't see where the order originate from, so you can't wardec the citadel that put this auction on the market

https://i.imgur.com/WYcFb1Y.png



you can though?

It says "Jumps = System"

So, if it says jumps = 5 you can find the citadel.

There might be hundreds of citadels 1-2 jumps from jita, which makes it harder, but, if its just 1-2 in each system, then its easier.

Its not like wardecs are expensive either.



You know it's in the system but if it's another system it will say jump=x and there might be more than x system in range of that system, and maybe multiple citadels in all those systems
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#17 - 2016-05-04 18:01:05 UTC
Darkstar01 wrote:
Also I wonder, after spending 3 - 4 Trillion ISK just to set up the buy orders before the patch, how much ISK is there left to cover the actual PLEX purchases?


That's the core of the objection - the article details how to get all your ISK into broker fees leaving none at all to cover the purchases.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#18 - 2016-05-04 21:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Aaron Honk wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
Soon you will be able to buy plex at 0% broker with region wide orders in citadels, I don't think he though about this.



But citadels can make region wide orders? I doubt that.
It would be very funny is Joe citadel in a secluded system can place orders with 0% broker fees in Mark citadels a guy that hate him and has set his fee at 110%.


It works on SiSi


I was unable to find a citadel with a functioning market on SISI, but I didn't spend much time there.

So I can set up orders in Jita paying a friendly owned citadel broker fee?
Sure it is not different from doing the same in a station where you have good standing, but with the new fees and taxes it can make ahuge difference.
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#19 - 2016-05-04 21:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron Honk
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
Soon you will be able to buy plex at 0% broker with region wide orders in citadels, I don't think he though about this.



But citadels can make region wide orders? I doubt that.
It would be very funny is Joe citadel in a secluded system can place orders with 0% broker fees in Mark citadels a guy that hate him and has set his fee at 110%.


It works on SiSi


I was unable to find a citadel with a functioning market on SISI, but I didn't spend much time there.

So I can set up orders in Jita paying a friendly owned citadel broker fee?
Sure it is not different from doing the same in a station where you have good standing, but with the neww fees and taxes it can make ahuge difference.


If you go to the market browser in the business folder, you can sort citadel by services and also % tax

https://i.imgur.com/a7Akcpm.png
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#20 - 2016-05-05 22:49:12 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
Soon you will be able to buy plex at 0% broker with region wide orders in citadels, I don't think he though about this.



But citadels can make region wide orders? I doubt that.
It would be very funny is Joe citadel in a secluded system can place orders with 0% broker fees in Mark citadels a guy that hate him and has set his fee at 1105.


It works on SiSi


Maybe something has changed, but now you can't make buy orders outside of the "station" when docked in a citadel with a market.
You can make them from the citadels without a market., but you have to relay it to a actual station.
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