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web vs painter
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Lydia Seii
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-05-02 02:48:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lydia Seii
hi! I have done some tests myself but it was still unclear that which one works better when it comes to 'big gun small target' scenario.
for example: XL torpedo hitting battleships, I find its more rewarding to use a web than a painter. Meanwhile for HAW on naglfar I hit better with a target painter.

Anyone cares to explain? Thanks
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2016-05-02 03:06:33 UTC
you are manipulating two different stats ,

webs take the targets transversel velocity down

target painters bloom the targets signature radeus

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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#3 - 2016-05-02 03:51:07 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
If I fly big ships, I like to brawl, up close, and I fit a web.
If I fly cruisers and below, I fit painters.
Painters are better for anything out past 13km. Better in kite situations.
Painters are better in fleets, because the sig bloom helps everyone in your fleet hit from range.

So, I fit for the planned engagement. Or for how I intend to pilot my ship. It's not so much about which module is better.
Nalia White
Tencus
#4 - 2016-05-02 18:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalia White
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you are manipulating two different stats ,

webs take the targets transversel velocity down

target painters bloom the targets signature radeus


you have to consider your own movement though. just flat out saying that it reduces a stat is wrong :) nitpicking i know but if you orbit something at 5000 it doesn't mean that the transversal will go down too much. you get a more stable orbit which can even mean transversal gets up if you web a target.

webs for range control. with range control you can actualy choose the transversal you want. double web on a battlecruiser against a small target let's you slowly coast away in one direction and transversal will go down a lot if he can't keep up with your speed.

edit: if you use missiles and are close webs. if you are kiting with missiles painter is a good choice.

Syndicate - K5-JRD

Home to few, graveyard for many

My biggest achievement
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2016-05-02 18:16:58 UTC
Nalia White wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you are manipulating two different stats ,

webs take the targets transversel velocity down

target painters bloom the targets signature radeus


you have to consider your own movement though. just flat out saying that it reduces a stat is wrong :) nitpicking i know but if you orbit something at 5000 it doesn't mean that the transversal will go down too much. you get a more stable orbit which can even mean transversal gets up if you web a target.

webs for range control. with range control you can actualy choose the transversal you want. double web on a battlecruiser against a small target let's you slowly coast away in one direction and transversal will go down a lot if he can't keep up with your speed.

edit: if you use missiles and are close webs. if you are kiting with missiles painter is a good choice.

all true of corse, hence why i linked to the euni page

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W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#6 - 2016-05-02 23:17:12 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you are manipulating two different stats ,

webs take the targets transversel velocity down

target painters bloom the targets signature radeus


missiles dont care about transversal.


Usually webs>painters though.
Moonacre Parmala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-05-03 13:03:25 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you are manipulating two different stats ,

webs take the targets transversel velocity down

target painters bloom the targets signature radeus


missiles dont care about transversal.


Usually webs>painters though.


Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2016-05-03 13:13:07 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you are manipulating two different stats ,

webs take the targets transversel velocity down

target painters bloom the targets signature radeus


missiles dont care about transversal.


Usually webs>painters though.


missiles do care about target vel though but yes targets sig is a bigger factor with missiles

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The 16.8km Bubble
Nalia White
Tencus
#9 - 2016-05-03 15:57:47 UTC
Moonacre Parmala wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you are manipulating two different stats ,

webs take the targets transversel velocity down

target painters bloom the targets signature radeus


missiles dont care about transversal.


Usually webs>painters though.


Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship


This. on a bomber always target painters.

if you overheat 2 tech 2 painters it will effectively double the size of a target. target painters are heavily underrated my friends :) even on webbed non-AB destroyers you will do a lot of dps.

Syndicate - K5-JRD

Home to few, graveyard for many

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-05-04 10:58:20 UTC
For turrets, a single web will have the same effect on tracking as more than doubling the target's sig radius (-60% transversal velocity = +150% sig radius as far as tracking is concerned).

For missiles, things are a bit different. Without going into too much detail, painters are certainly a must if your target's sig radius is smaller than your missile's explosion radius. Slowing them down is always effective, but your missiles won't hit for full damage even a motionless target if the target's sig is too low.

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Lydia Seii
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-05-05 11:25:06 UTC
thanks all for your help guys.
Zathra Narazi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-05-07 11:37:01 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
missiles dont care about transversal.

They do care about velocity.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-05-10 19:47:37 UTC
Lydia Seii wrote:
hi! I have done some tests myself but it was still unclear that which one works better when it comes to 'big gun small target' scenario.
for example: XL torpedo hitting battleships, I find its more rewarding to use a web than a painter. Meanwhile for HAW on naglfar I hit better with a target painter.

Anyone cares to explain? Thanks


Well it's quite simple, you look at a guns tracking speed and sig radius. If the target is exceeding your tracking speed you need a web, if the target is below your guns sig radius then you need a target painter.

SORRY, SORRY, ever so sorry, they changed all that. So now you look at your guns weapon accuracy score and just guess. Isn't that right CCP?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#14 - 2016-05-10 23:54:01 UTC
Moonacre Parmala wrote:
Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship

Twin precision-scripted missile guidance computers will actually deliver more damage application.

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Specia1 K
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-05-12 00:15:37 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Moonacre Parmala wrote:
Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship

Twin precision-scripted missile guidance computers will actually deliver more damage application.


And delay aggressing your target. May be a desireable trait.

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Nalia White
Tencus
#16 - 2016-05-12 16:46:44 UTC
Specia1 K wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Moonacre Parmala wrote:
Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship

Twin precision-scripted missile guidance computers will actually deliver more damage application.


And delay aggressing your target. May be a desireable trait.


i hope that is the case, because target painters have the huge bonus that it does not only apply to your own ship but to your friends as well.

Syndicate - K5-JRD

Home to few, graveyard for many

My biggest achievement
Specia1 K
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-05-12 23:11:32 UTC
Nalia White wrote:
Specia1 K wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Moonacre Parmala wrote:
Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship

Twin precision-scripted missile guidance computers will actually deliver more damage application.


And delay aggressing your target. May be a desireable trait.


i hope that is the case, because target painters have the huge bonus that it does not only apply to your own ship but to your friends as well.


Choices are always goodBlink

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Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2016-05-14 18:51:28 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you are manipulating two different stats ,

webs take the targets transversel velocity down

target painters bloom the targets signature radeus



Webs have nothing to do with transversal. They reduce the targeted ship's maximum velocity. DIrection is irerelevant.

In general, webs are more effective at increasing missiles damage to fast targets. But they don't do jack to a slow target.That is when you need target painters.

That being said, TPs have much greater range.

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elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#19 - 2016-05-15 09:11:34 UTC
Lydia Seii wrote:
hi! I have done some tests myself but it was still unclear that which one works better when it comes to 'big gun small target' scenario.
for example: XL torpedo hitting battleships, I find its more rewarding to use a web than a painter. Meanwhile for HAW on naglfar I hit better with a target painter.

Anyone cares to explain? Thanks


No. If you didn't read the citadel 1.0 patch notes, you do not know that citadel torpedoes have an explosion radius of 10km.

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Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#20 - 2016-05-15 21:57:33 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you are manipulating two different stats ,

webs take the targets transversel velocity down

target painters bloom the targets signature radeus



Webs have nothing to do with transversal. They reduce the targeted ship's maximum velocity. DIrection is irerelevant.

In general, webs are more effective at increasing missiles damage to fast targets. But they don't do jack to a slow target.That is when you need target painters.

That being said, TPs have much greater range.

Saying they have NOTHING to do with traversal is pretty disingenuous.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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