EVE General Discussion

What do you think they're 'grabbing', exactly?

ISK is make-believe money, mate.

Trying to mix that comment with this one...

... makes my head hurt. ISK grab = ISK sink They are pulling ISK out of the more endowed characters that continue to use NPC stations. Which brings up this quote:

Yes, so use Player Citadels which is their point. Also, jump clones are a convenience and utterly unnecessary in HiSec. They are mostly unnecessary in Lo/Null sec with the proper corporations/alliances. If you don't have that benefit, then you'll need to use Player Citadels and their assumed competitive reduced costs for your clone jumping.

New/Poor players don't usually need or use jump clones. They are added expense regardless of this new cost. They are convenience and an efficiency boost. Most new players are working on trying to be efficient players in the basic terms, that's why they are new or poor usually both. Once you get better, then you can start doing things like jump clones.

Now, I say all this as a relatively new, mostly poor, casual player. I generally get less than 4 hours a week online. I've learned a ton in all that time and Jump Clones, while cool, are not needed. Pandora *IS* the multi-talented main on my account. She can fight, build stuff, shop remotely, run missions, do DED sites, etc. etc. No Jump Clone needed, I have plenty to do within 10 jumps any direction.

Again, I would advise against putting so much weight and vitriol into something that is very basic in function and design.

CCP has to start sucking the ISK away from the higher end users in the game and they will chisel away at that as much as they can in any way they can. If it can influence people to use new features, that is just gravy for them.

Basic concept. ISK sink is a recurring ISK fee that will be paid, generally it is meant to have a greater impact upon those with substantive income/resources. This implementation is somewhat opposite. Those with higher income and resources are less likely to be impacted since they have role specific alts that do not require JCs....

This has virtually NO IMPACT upon higher end users. This has the greatest impact upon the lowest end users.

JCs are extremely useful to new players, in particular the very newest players. SP gains via expensive + implant JC sets are particularly useful for the very newest players, now SP gains will be far more expensive for those players. I know cause I costed it out when I first started. JCs are invaluable to multi-role characters or accounts that do not have alts, generally those with the least income in the game. Yet this per-use implementation fee for JCs hits the multi-alt account holders the least.

So the most heavily impacted players are new, casual, and poor players and the justification for the per-use fee is to help with Citadels? So the richest players gain at the specific expense of those that can least afford it? Gimme a break.

I haven't jumped In a while until a couple days ago, and I was surprised to have to pay the fee to install a drone where I was at.

It's not the price, it's the principle.

I am in a ship in Suroken, where I have jumped back and forth before. I have jump clones in Waskisen and Injurnen.

So, as I want to jump to my already installed clone in Waskisen, I had to pay the fee to install the clone in Suroken.

Now I'm in Waskisen, where I already did have a clone, and I want to jump back to Suroken. I now have to pay a fee to install a clone in Waskisen?

Previously, if someone wanted to install a clone where they were at, there was a fee. If we had installed clones in 3 different stations, there was a fee for each one of those. We were able to jump from one clone into another after we waited our 19-24 hours, without paying anything extra.

I am against this new fee, I already paid for the installation of clones at those 3 stations. I don't feel I should have to keep paying every time I jump. (If that's what's going to happen.)

I am not a new player, and the fee is pocket change, but as I said it's the principle.

-Jaz

The issue is that CCP has materially impacted my gameplay by changing the rules. Not only that, they changed them in a clearly deceptive way. This change will institute a per-use fee (NEVER DISCUSSED, NEVER DOCUMENTED) that will change the use of JCs as they have existed for years and years. This per-use fee may perhaps be lessened by seeking Citadels or Rorqual solutions that were previously unnecessary. However these still require per-use fees associated with the use of existing player owned and player installed assets that are not liquid at all.

At the same time, these fees will go to the very wealthiest players in the game.

I cannot support a company that chooses to massively materially impact the gameplay of existing paying users in a dictatorial and underhanded way.

CCP touts this game as a sandbox. If so, it is a sandbox where CCP just dumped all over casual, jack-of-all-trades characters. I'm just incredibly pissed that CCP has chosen to implement a rule change that has so materially impacted my gameplay with no recompense. 7B+ lost + gametime + SP due to this single undocumented rule change.

At a minimum I should be able to fully recover all of my implant costs for those JCs that I no longer can afford to operate and I should get extractors to recover the SPs that were spent in support of implants that I have no intention of ever using due to the per-use JC fees. As I have said before, if CCP would refund the account that I just setup and the 1 year that I added onto an existing account (all last week), I would walk away from all of my accounts and never look back.

Again, SHAME on you CCP

Otherwise known as 1 or 2 hours PER YEAR running incursions.




The time it took you to type that, you could have done a single level 4 mission and made enough isk for 30 days of jump cloning.

It is a simple cost benefit analysis. +3 implants are moderately priced, so much so that they are standard fare for those that have some assets and live in hi sec, some even use +4 as regular just not me. +5 implants are high dollar, very pricey for the marginal SP gain over a +3 set. The only way that a +5 set of implants can be justified is for a very long term investment for long term SP gain (over years and years). Add in a per-use fee for those implants and the price for the additional SP gain becomes very, very expensive. In general far too expensive to make any financial sense, particularly with extractors around.

Those +5 implants were a single, 1-time capital investment without any operational costs. Now they have a per-use operational cost that via the NPC stations is 900K per use. For most people, this 900K use cost would clearly exceed the marginal value of a short term gain of +2 on SP gain. Even in hi sec you would have to be pretty foolish to run around regularly with 1B in implants. People gank freighters with cargo of that and pods are far easier kills.

This is at least 80K per month per account that has never been necessary. That is 80K out of my pocket to access 1B in assets per character. Would you have any objection to having a 500K account access fee to just login? This action is exactly that, a fee to access resources, not just any resources but resources that are already owned, installed and CANNOT be sold (very few assets like that anymore).

This was just a terrible idea and has massive implications for future choices for CCP. The fact that this was done in a hugely underhanded way with no discussion is so disappointing.

So summarizing, you won't use +5s because you think 100k/year is a lot of ISK and you also don't know how to get your pod out?

If you're at your keyboard and bubbles aren't present, how are you getting podded?

As the person above me said, if you would have spent the time you have spent complaining in this thread knocking out a few missions, you would have the ISK to pay for JCing for the rest of the year. It isn't 80k/month. As long as you don't go into null/wormholes, there's no reason to not fly around with +5s. Unless you're AFK-ing and don't have a pod saver tab on your overview. You're paying for the service of being able to vary your attributes based on what pod you use. If you don't think a few isk is worth the extra training time then fine, don't use that pod. Adapt. Or you know, learn how to not get podded in HS.

One more time tiger, stop whining. You have seven accounts and are whining that you're a "multi role character" (as ridiculous as that is) with someone who has a single character on a single account doing everything.

OMG!!!!!!1111!!!!!one

And? You have seven accounts, multibox blitzing and you can make that much isk in next to no time. In fact, you would have made it already if you spent the last few hours playing EVE instead of complaining.

I also appreciate the fact that you ignored why you can't fly around in +5s and simply get your pod out. In HS at least there is roughly zero risk of being podded, if you're at the keyboard.

I've yet to hear anyone as old as your characters are complain about something as unbelievably trivial as 700 mil/year.