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why does it seem like CCP is castrating high sec content creators

First post
Author
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#101 - 2016-05-02 06:30:06 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Perhaps CCP plans on toning down highsec rewards and replacing a lot of highsec space with lowsec? Like less or equal than .7 would do the trick.

There obviously have to be rookie systems in game and in those areas of space, the mechanics have to be newbie-friendly. Not seeing the "nerf content creators to death" part tho. What content are we talking about?



Think of the poor high sec gankers. How would they find their targets in a unsafe environment?
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#102 - 2016-05-02 06:47:05 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Perhaps CCP plans on toning down highsec rewards and replacing a lot of highsec space with lowsec? Like less or equal than .7 would do the trick.

There obviously have to be rookie systems in game and in those areas of space, the mechanics have to be newbie-friendly. Not seeing the "nerf content creators to death" part tho. What content are we talking about?



Think of the poor high sec gankers. How would they find their targets in a unsafe environment?

Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.

How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Black Pedro
Mine.
#103 - 2016-05-02 07:56:25 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Because the gankers in high sec are not "content creators". That phrase was invented as a smoke screen to hide their true intentions: Griefing. Before they came up with this white wash, gankers would say they did it for "The precious tears". They finally figured out that was politically incorrect, and put up the current smoke screen.

They are in fact content destroyers. The freighters they destroy can no longer haul, preventing them from creating content. The removal of the ship itself is a direct removal of content. The cargo lost to the loot fairy is a removal of content. The interaction between buyers and sellers that would have occurred if that cargo had been put on the market is also a loss of content, along with whatever content would have been created had that cargo been available to be used by other players.

Ships destroyed. Market activity gone. Useful items gone. Ganking does not create content. It destroys content.
Of course they are content creators. By your logic, every single form of ship PvP is "content destroying" because there will always be a net loss of virtual items in the game universe when two or more ships battle it out. They may be 'virtual item destroyers' but gankers and wardeccers are certainly not destroying content.

Eve Online is a player-driven game. CCP provides the tools, and the players make the content. Gankers, wardeccers and others in highsec who seek to destroy or capture other player's assets are initiating content by forcing other players to account for their actions, and defend their space pixels. Moreover, the loss of virutal items that space combat, including ganking and wardeccing, results in, provides meaning for these virtual items to be built. Given that most industrial output is purchased by players to prepare for, or replace assets lost in ship combat, this destruction-created demand is also indirectly the major source of content in this game for industrialists. The real jewel of this game, the player driven economy, is therefore completely dependent on player-created content including that which takes place in highsec.

Destroying things creates more demand, not less, as things need to be replaced. If you buy a ship and it never explodes, you will never buy that one again, while if you lose a mining ship or hauler on occasion, part of your imaginary wealth will be used to pay other players to build you a new one. Ganking, creates even more economic demand (AKA content) than other forms of ship combat as the attacking ships are destroyed as well.

Virtual items in a London database are not content. Content in Eve is the player-player interactions and stories (like fighting off the evil pirates), and reasons for undocking to do stuff (like mine or build), both of which are provided by highsec content creators like gankers and wardeccers and their destructive activities.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#104 - 2016-05-02 08:23:35 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.

How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment?
This is what most of the arguments here come down to, and that's on both sides of this, "these people don't play the way I do therefore they are playing wrong".

At the end of the day both ganking and mining will continue to exist and it's up to CCP to balance it which so far they've done pretty well with. I don't particularly like AFK play, but I'd rather see CCP make the gameplay more rewarding for being active than punish the entire playstyle because some people do it AFK.

Oh, and for the record, it's a bit rich getting on your high horse about people in their safe environment while you are guarding a playstyle that uses alts in cheap disposable ships to shoot people (more often that not rookie or just terrible players) in the same highsec environment. I have a few ganking chars and I'd consider none of them risk takers.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#105 - 2016-05-03 06:36:17 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.

How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment?
This is what most of the arguments here come down to, and that's on both sides of this, "these people don't play the way I do therefore they are playing wrong".

At the end of the day both ganking and mining will continue to exist and it's up to CCP to balance it which so far they've done pretty well with. I don't particularly like AFK play, but I'd rather see CCP make the gameplay more rewarding for being active than punish the entire playstyle because some people do it AFK.

Oh, and for the record, it's a bit rich getting on your high horse about people in their safe environment while you are guarding a playstyle that uses alts in cheap disposable ships to shoot people (more often that not rookie or just terrible players) in the same highsec environment. I have a few ganking chars and I'd consider none of them risk takers.


People used to use battleships but that got nerfed. In fact damn near everything ganking related has either been nerfed into the ground or outright removed.
ArmyOfMe
Teddybears.
Dead Terrorists
#106 - 2016-05-03 06:38:45 UTC
Tbh, its not hard to understand why ppl mine and stuff afk, cause the pve content in eve is mindnumbing boring.

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.

Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#107 - 2016-05-03 06:41:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.

How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment?
This is what most of the arguments here come down to, and that's on both sides of this, "these people don't play the way I do therefore they are playing wrong".

At the end of the day both ganking and mining will continue to exist and it's up to CCP to balance it which so far they've done pretty well with. I don't particularly like AFK play, but I'd rather see CCP make the gameplay more rewarding for being active than punish the entire playstyle because some people do it AFK.

Oh, and for the record, it's a bit rich getting on your high horse about people in their safe environment while you are guarding a playstyle that uses alts in cheap disposable ships to shoot people (more often that not rookie or just terrible players) in the same highsec environment. I have a few ganking chars and I'd consider none of them risk takers.


People used to use battleships but that got nerfed. In fact damn near everything ganking related has either been nerfed into the ground or outright removed.


You mean:
"People used battleships when there were easy way to exploit bugs and turn people into aggressors.", right?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#108 - 2016-05-03 06:49:40 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.

How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment?
This is what most of the arguments here come down to, and that's on both sides of this, "these people don't play the way I do therefore they are playing wrong".

At the end of the day both ganking and mining will continue to exist and it's up to CCP to balance it which so far they've done pretty well with. I don't particularly like AFK play, but I'd rather see CCP make the gameplay more rewarding for being active than punish the entire playstyle because some people do it AFK.

Oh, and for the record, it's a bit rich getting on your high horse about people in their safe environment while you are guarding a playstyle that uses alts in cheap disposable ships to shoot people (more often that not rookie or just terrible players) in the same highsec environment. I have a few ganking chars and I'd consider none of them risk takers.


People used to use battleships but that got nerfed. In fact damn near everything ganking related has either been nerfed into the ground or outright removed.


You mean:
"People used battleships when there were easy way to exploit bugs and turn people into aggressors.", right?


No I mean the battleship was the ship of choice for ganking. You can't very well complain about gankers using cheap, disposable ships when the mechanics demand such ships need to be used if you want to turn a profit.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2016-05-03 06:55:29 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.

How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment?
Well: Would you like to do this job? Staring at the screen and switching the asteroid every 15 minutes isn't my idea of fun. And of cause you only buy ships that are build with certificated non-akf Minerals.Roll
By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#110 - 2016-05-03 06:59:51 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.

How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment?
Well: Would you like to do this job? Staring at the screen and switching the asteroid every 15 minutes isn't my idea of fun. And of cause you only buy ships that are build with certificated non-akf Minerals.Roll
By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null.


Go try gank an afk skiff in highsec, better yet, try to do it and turn a profit.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#111 - 2016-05-03 07:15:33 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null.
Riddle me this, why is nullsec safer for mining than hisec is?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2016-05-03 08:25:00 UTC
"Riddle me this, why is nullsec safer for mining than hisec is?"

It's not. The only reason ganks don't happen there is because CODE dare not venture in null.

And as for ganking a Skiff in highsec and turning a profit ..... there is no ISK profit. There may be some strategic objective involved, a green killboard, or the allegedly "sweet tears". And fun I guess. Or maybe just :because:. But profit? What makes you think blowing up a regular T2 fit Skiff should turn a profit? Best possible drop is some 15k m3 of worthless ores and a couple of mods and drones. Clearly profit does not factor into the equation.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#113 - 2016-05-03 09:10:22 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
"Riddle me this, why is nullsec safer for mining than hisec is?"

It's not. The only reason ganks don't happen there is because CODE dare not venture in null.

And as for ganking a Skiff in highsec and turning a profit ..... there is no ISK profit. There may be some strategic objective involved, a green killboard, or the allegedly "sweet tears". And fun I guess. Or maybe just :because:. But profit? What makes you think blowing up a regular T2 fit Skiff should turn a profit? Best possible drop is some 15k m3 of worthless ores and a couple of mods and drones. Clearly profit does not factor into the equation.


Mining barges are the only subcaps you can't turn a profit on. If you fit t2 mods on any subcap and fit zero tank you can turn a profit.

For example a zealot with t2 guns, damage mods, tracking and so on but no tank mods can be blown up using a single gank ship and can turn a profit. Mining barges were buffed some time ago so that even if you fit zero tank on them your can't turn a profit killing them. This makes them unique in the subcap lineup.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2016-05-03 09:16:08 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null.
Riddle me this, why is nullsec safer for mining than hisec is?

Well in Null you've got NBSI. So you know if someone is in the system that doesn't belong there because he isn't blue. And you get Intel if fleets are passing nearby systems. You just don't have these Infos in High. And in High there are often 30+ people Local so you can't check everyone. It's not per se safer but the way Null is handeled it is. And the profits are higher. I wouldn't wonder if a lot of hard-core-players are using their afk-alt-miners to turn a nice profit for their main.
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2016-05-03 09:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tisiphone Dira
Burn my dunk, kill my awox, you can't take the skies from us!

There once was a ganker named tisi

A stunningly beautiful missy

To gank a gross miner

There is nothing finer, cept when they get all pissy

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#116 - 2016-05-03 09:25:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Decoy
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.

How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment?
This is what most of the arguments here come down to, and that's on both sides of this, "these people don't play the way I do therefore they are playing wrong".

At the end of the day both ganking and mining will continue to exist and it's up to CCP to balance it which so far they've done pretty well with. I don't particularly like AFK play, but I'd rather see CCP make the gameplay more rewarding for being active than punish the entire playstyle because some people do it AFK.

Oh, and for the record, it's a bit rich getting on your high horse about people in their safe environment while you are guarding a playstyle that uses alts in cheap disposable ships to shoot people (more often that not rookie or just terrible players) in the same highsec environment. I have a few ganking chars and I'd consider none of them risk takers.


*snip* Personal attacks are unnecessary. ~ ISD Decoy

It was just the same thing in reverse and for no reason other than to demonstrate the futility of any of these sorts of arguments, because what can be said one way can be said the other.

So calm down little boy. No need to get all concerned about a post.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#117 - 2016-05-03 09:27:47 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:

By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null.

You should learn the difference between risk and risk management.

If highsec miners used nullsec risk management in highsec, what do you think would happen?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2016-05-03 11:33:45 UTC
^^^ I fear I already know the answer to that one.

Well played, Sir, well played.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#119 - 2016-05-03 11:52:54 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
"Riddle me this, why is nullsec safer for mining than hisec is?"

It's not. The only reason ganks don't happen there is because CODE dare not venture in null.
Except when they do P. Null residents generally provide for their own safety, whereas in hisec some people seem to believe that Concord are there to provide it for them.

Geronimo McVain wrote:
Well in Null you've got NBSI. So you know if someone is in the system that doesn't belong there because he isn't blue. And you get Intel if fleets are passing nearby systems. You just don't have these Infos in High. And in High there are often 30+ people Local so you can't check everyone. It's not per se safer but the way Null is handeled it is. And the profits are higher. I wouldn't wonder if a lot of hard-core-players are using their afk-alt-miners to turn a nice profit for their main.
There's 2 major ganking groups in hisec, setting both to red and being aware of your surroundings mitigates 90% of the risk from hisec gankers, unfortunately that appears to be too much effort for many.

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
If highsec miners used nullsec risk management in highsec, what do you think would happen?
She swings the hammer, and hits the nail clean on the head.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#120 - 2016-05-03 11:57:37 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
If highsec miners used nullsec risk management in highsec, what do you think would happen?


They would be docked up until system was clear of anyone else...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp