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why does it seem like CCP is castrating high sec content creators

First post
Author
Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University
#61 - 2016-04-30 03:41:28 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Rin Vocaloid2 wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Rin Vocaloid2 wrote:
Seems like you pissed him off enough to do that to you in every corp you joined. What did you do?

Did he join Eve Uni?


Don't think it would make a difference. E-UNI seems to get war decced on a daily basis.What?

Yeah that was kind of the point.

Being wardecced isn't about the Corp being decced (ie. wardecs aren't about pissing people off - well, not as the defender anyway). Nothing is required to be wardecced other than being in a player owned Corp. It's just a process that happens.


Ah ok. Sorry that your point flew over my head like one of those Amarrian station animations.Oops
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2016-04-30 03:45:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Rin Vocaloid2 wrote:
Ah ok. Sorry that your point flew over my head like one of those Amarrian station animations.Oops

Nah, it's ok. I'm just being a bit antagonistic.

These forums have no personality. It's not allowed and no wonder most of the community has moved to /r/eve, tweetfleet slack and twitter. You can't discuss anything in here without the heavy hand of a random moderator kicking in. It's strange that in a forum where everyone is already a member of the game that encourages conflict, everything here is kept so sterile and lifeless.

So my bad. Was just being an ass to spice up the place a bit. It's why I also respect Dracvlad and Lucas. They bite so easily. It at least adds a touch of fun to an otherwise boring place.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#63 - 2016-04-30 04:25:49 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Am I the only one who cringed every time I hear the phrase "Content Creators"? It sounds so cheesy, horrible, and as if people are desperate to give some lofty name to simply playing the game. Worst part is, it seems to be limited to only a few groups who can claim credit for creating content despite so many others who create their own content. That guy who's trying to figure out max speed per ship type and opening it to the masses, he's a content creator because he is creating content, and I don't think CCP is nerfing his effort.

RvB is creating content and last I checked, CCP did not nerf our ability to make content.

Groups like Marmite and Break a Wish create content, haven't heard cries of CCP nerfing them (well, the watch list change, but nothing of late).

All the not purple shoot it groups that gather people in hi sec and take them out fighting is content creation. No nerf there.

The people trying to make new citadel trade hubs are creating content. CCP just gave them a job.

But nope, change the bumping mechanic (which I think we could safely assume is the OP's gripe) and CCP is all for nerfing content creators.

Sorry, changing one mechanic isn't nerfing the content creators. At best it is changing one dynamic. Plus, we don't even know the change m it could be that any point resets the counter. Guess what that means a new player can now help contribute to ganking by training warp disrupt to level 1 and acting as a suicide point. New content for new players will be created! They may not fly a catalyst or nado, but they can help in the gank with this change.

So really how is this nerfing content creation when there is so much more content to create throughout New Eden?


I thought RvB was formed to provide content that's not available by default. You're a content creator too.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#64 - 2016-04-30 04:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
Red surely just provided my bored ass with some content.
Thumbs up to the squad of four that gave me what I was really looking for... someone to shoot at.
Granted, there were four of them so the outcome was pretty much a foregone conclusion, but it's the ride more than the destination sometimes.
They numbered three and I less than one when it was all said and done.
I'd do it again, and probably will.

When folks talk about unmanning the content creators, everyone immediately goes apeshit about ganking. Unfortunately that's not the only form of content that's fallen on hard times. It's friday night here and I should by all rights either be out picking up loose women or hunting war targets... sadly, hunting war targets is no longer a tenable activity due to the 'buddy list' change. So instead I found myself with little better to do than suspect bait until I found ANY kind of fight.

I found one. It wasn't winnable, but it was a fight, and that's what I wanted.

I guess my point is that my playstyle has been crippled to the point of verging upon obsoletion because of 'free intel' in another sector of space that I could give half of one sixteenth of a rat's ass about. Bitter? Kinda. Unemployed now.

TL:DR? RvB is good, however I should not have to resort to them if I want a fight in high sec without ganking or becoming a hub camping bottom feeder.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Black Pedro
Mine.
#65 - 2016-04-30 05:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Bexol Regyri wrote:
so my question is why does it seem like CCP wants to stop or make close to impossible all non PVE highsec content when players have tons of in game tools avoid dying like d-scan, local chat, kills in system on map, etc...?

CCP doesn't want that. What you see is just the effects of years of a significant number of players whining that they do not like losing stuff, and perhaps lack of proper representation on the CSM. Therefore, when an issue comes up, like say the Watch List, the pressure from those players who want more safety (at least when they are not in control) is immense and CCP ignores or doesn't even see the negative effects on content creation. When CCP is being reactionary they tend to favour who is whispering in their ear or yelling on social media. Each nerf adds up though, and the net effect is the game is less interesting.

CCP is much better at supporting content creators when they take a more proactive approach to a game change. Like say the new structures which are a gift to highsec content creators. Or when they added the Bowhead or gave freighters fitting slots. In these cases they really did follow the fundamental design of the game and provided new tools to the sandbox that players would want to use but that makes them vulnerable to other players thus enabling content.

But the reality is content still goes on, even if highsec has never been safer. We are just nearing the end of a cycle where the nerfs have accumulated to the point it requires significant dedication and commitment to play as a criminal, and with the problems with wardecs and lack of a watchlist, very difficult to pursue a productive legal war in highsec. If players ever completely stop attacking each other, you will see some band-aid buffs, but otherwise we will carry on until CCP does a complete reset and revamps the content creation tools in one go. Whatever new criminal and/or war system they implement will indeed have the goals of player-player interaction foremost (just like the new structures have) and benefit from being designed without whiney carebears trying to influence the game design for their own self-interest and therefore much cleaner and true to the core of the PvP sandbox game design.

In my opinion, the bigger problem with the game is not that highsec is so safe, it is that it remains so lucrative asphyxiating content elsewhere. The persistent imbalance of risk vs. reward across the whole universe has hurt the game more than any lack of attention to highsec content creation tools ever could. But I am optimistic as, lowsec, nullsec and WHs have all taken big hits to income and ease of farming/AFKing income sources in recent patches so highsec is logically next on the chopping block.
Wanda Fayne
#66 - 2016-04-30 05:49:23 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Red surely just provided my bored ass with some content.
Thumbs up to the squad of four that gave me what I was really looking for... someone to shoot at.
Granted, there were four of them so the outcome was pretty much a foregone conclusion, but it's the ride more than the destination sometimes.
They numbered three and I less than one when it was all said and done.
I'd do it again, and probably will.

When folks talk about unmanning the content creators, everyone immediately goes apeshit about ganking. Unfortunately that's not the only form of content that's fallen on hard times. It's friday night here and I should by all rights either be out picking up loose women or hunting war targets... sadly, hunting war targets is no longer a tenable activity due to the 'buddy list' change. So instead I found myself with little better to do than suspect bait until I found ANY kind of fight.

I found one. It wasn't winnable, but it was a fight, and that's what I wanted.

I guess my point is that my playstyle has been crippled to the point of verging upon obsoletion because of 'free intel' in another sector of space that I could give half of one sixteenth of a rat's ass about. Bitter? Kinda. Unemployed now.

TL:DR? RvB is good, however I should not have to resort to them if I want a fight in high sec without ganking or becoming a hub camping bottom feeder.


This.

It's my perception that the intention is to 'nudge' people out of highsec and into other parts of space by whatever means. Higher yields, better loot, more mechanics and options and generally dumbing-down highsec into more vanilla pudding.
And not everybody likes vanilla.

It really means, what has always been true, that you have to adapt. What has worked before may not be viable any longer and you have to try something else. There is always something going on in this game. It is up to you to find it or make it happen.

I ran my very first L4 mission today. OMG...Blink

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#67 - 2016-04-30 07:48:57 UTC
Rin Vocaloid2 wrote:
Bexol Regyri wrote:
Tyyler DURden wrote:

Allright OP, besides the recent bumping nerf and the watchlist changes what else has been implemented since November that you deemed "castration" of the ganking and merc playstyles? FYI since you're only 5 months old you might not be aware that actual griefing is not an allowed playstyle.


oh i didn't know that i had a guy that kept war decing every corp I was in for the first 3 months unless i paid him 500m but he stop after the change to online status. he only got me once even though he chased me every time i was on.

he stop after the change where you couldn't see who came online


Seems like you pissed him off enough to do that to you in every corp you joined. What did you do?


Actually no, I came across some people who had the exact same thing happen to them, though they had been in this guys newbie corp for a couple of months, so we took them into Pirate Nation and he stopped., I think you will find this happens a lot in Eve.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#68 - 2016-04-30 08:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
What is objective in adding up 1 + 1 and ignoring effect, its simplistic and wrong headed, what you said was embarrassingly stupid and no amount of bluster can make up for it.

You should check the definition of objective sometime. What you typed there is an extremely good example of objectivity.

As to the concept, your simplistic mind is not able to grasp the elegance of that approach, but it's ok, anti-gankers need people too; and who better than the most simplistic minds in the community. After all, anyone with the slightest bit of self respect and intelligence is off doing absolutely anything else. Even mining is a higher pursuit.


Start going through each nerf and detail its impact, I will read it, problem for you is I have played Eve for a long time, so I know a lot of past changes and their effects, do you want to go down that path because I will enjoy it. I will also detail all the mechanics used by Gankers that enable them to get around consequences, bumping was not the only one... Come on I dare you.

Now your comment on the DCU, yes that was a buff on all ships to take into account the change of the DCU into a passive module which I like because in PvP neuts are too powerful in shutting off tank, the nerf to ganking is as a result of the impact it had on freighters. That requires how many more pilots exactly, shall I tell you?

Another one, the removal of the watch list, many big fights got blocked by people noting the other side logging on their cap pilots en masse, the watch list change occured because of that, the impact was on hunter killer mercs in high sec, WH players who cannot see if the person logged or not, and people doing PvE in a system with a cloaky camper who now cannot see the BLOP's pilots logging on.

You would cry that they are all nerfs to ganking and they are, but they were not applied to nerf ganking, the bumping one was adjusted because it was a poor mechanic, though I think CCP will have it re-set so anyone with a brain and a suicide pointer can get around it.

I am not interested at all in the counting of such adjustments but their affect to game balance which is objective, like many I am concerned about the impact on hunter killer Mercs, but no one is concerned about people who PvE in space with a multiple of cloaky campers.

I tried to explain it without being insulting, but I think you are just one of these people crying over things, I have had to take nerf after nerf to my gameplay, some areas I stopped doing because it was no longer worth it, I made my point and moved on, perhaps you should do the same instead of counting changes and doing a tally board, it is just so weak...

EDIT: EHP, there was another EHP change, a number of AG players including one I know well who deserves a lot of credit started blowing up freighter wrecks before they could be looted, as you might know all wrecks had the same low EHP. It was very very successful, some of the explosions on comms by Loyalanon were epic. CCP changed this and increased the wreck EHP, the players concerned saw it as correct balance and were like yeah pity but I will accept that as it was silly as it was, now compare that attitude to yours on the DCU and bumping changes.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#69 - 2016-04-30 08:07:27 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Note that the ability to bump hasn't been removed, simply there is a 3 minute timer for it.

Which i think is a good change.
For example if someone bumps a freighter in high sec and that player in high sec can't even warp for 2 hours because he's being bumped, that player is stuck for 2 hours, even if people don't gank him, freighter can't warp and it is stuck for 2 hours in space.

Being stuck in space for 2 hours just because someone can do that is stupid if you ask me.
That player in freighter can't play for 2 hours because he's being bumped and that's just wrong.
Spacetramp Sotken
Doomheim
#70 - 2016-04-30 08:35:57 UTC
Bexol Regyri wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I think you are rather confused, you are mistaking adjusting bad mechanics and balancing the game for blocking what you define as content.

Do you feel that it is a good mechanic that a ship can hold another in space and be protected in doing so by CONCORD, if you think that ending this practice is castrating content creators in hisec then I have to ask wouldn't you be better off in WOW.


I am guessing you are talking about the bumping changes, but again that can be avoided by checking your route on a map. If anything for that change it should be some kind of warp module that can placed on a ship or just take the whole aligning and getting up to speed a way instead of having some kind of loophole in the game mechanics.


I it seems you are confused, WOW is a ultra safe game compared to Eve. another reason why i am here instead of there.



I'm laughing at the whole check your route comment.

Where I am now it's around 16 jumps to Jita, to avoid Uedema and ass hats like you it's closer to 60+ jumps.

Keep the tears flowing :) content my arse.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#71 - 2016-04-30 08:52:16 UTC
'high sec content creators'...LOL, PC terminology always makes me laugh. Ganking cowards are 'content creators', illegal immigrants are 'dreamers'...
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#72 - 2016-04-30 10:11:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Bexol Regyri wrote:
well maybe Eve should go to the WoW model and have PVE only a pve only server. Then people can mine, do combat sites or auto pilot across the galaxy while they watch netflix without having to worry about dying. Having 30 people in a system with no one interacting with each other is a boring as it gets. At that point why make it a multiplayer game?

EVE is designed as a group experience. While there are activities that you easliy can do solo, you still need to watch out for groups interfering with your gameplay and those groups obviously have an advantage then. Doing EVE completely solo is doing it the hardcore way.

Though CCP could still do a better job at communicating this. While basically everything on the CCP websites says mutliplayer, there is no obvious hint for new players, that you will be at a distinct disadvantage without a group, when it comes to a lot of content ingame.

Remove standings and insurance.

Yarosara Ruil
#73 - 2016-04-30 10:36:02 UTC
Just wait until we have our first Keepstar trade hub and watch all Highsec wardeccers moan and complain that they can't blap ships on the undock!
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#74 - 2016-04-30 11:03:16 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
This is not just about bumping mechanics.

It's not that long ago that the community was told, that CCP likes to balance changes in one direction with changes in the other.

Doing that would actually be balanced, but the evidence of changes over the last couple of years demonstatrates that's a lie.

Changes one way are not always balanced by changes the other.
There are changes on both sides though, people just choose to pretend they never happened as it suits them. Take for example the bumping changes that have people up in arms. It used to be the case that if you were bumped you could just log off and 15 minutes later you'd be safe. That was removed allowing people to be kept in space until downtime if need be until gankers could be bothered to mount a fleet. All these changes are doing is retuning it to a time where gankers need to be well prepared rather than saying "oh that dude's had someone bumped for two hours, now we have enough online to execute the gank".

At the end of the day though it wouldn't surprise me if CCP wanted to try to encourage other forms of content, as no matter what badly analysed stats they come up with shows, people don't like starting a game, playing for a few weeks then losing everything to a mechanic they didn't know existed used by a multi-year veteran who gains nothing from doing it. I fully expect ganking to be a more challenging set of mechanics to use.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2016-04-30 15:29:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
The problem with risk versus rewards is not that the rewards in high are so high but that the risks in Null are so high.

Take a normal High system: 30+ unknown people in local. Who would undock a mining barge under the same conditions in NPC Null? Remember that the ore is much better in Null so the rewards are much higher So why don't you undock? Because 10 secs after you arrive in the belt someone will gank you. So when you mine in Null it's either in empty systems or in Sov Null with lots of Intel because otherwise the risks are just to high.

If you do industry in Null you need a corp that can get a jumpfreighter through to get your suff on the market. In Null you have lots of battles but why don't you have markets? There are lots of customers. It's the insecurity. If you build for 2 week you don't want to carry it around in a helpless freighter. It would be like walking with multi Million dollar jewelry through Harlem at night.

CCP is aiming for a balance. High must be relatively safe to enable the industry Null needs. Null can't support itself be it in industry or trade. Everyone proclaiming more ganking should go to Null and ONLY live on products sold and produced in Null. No freighter deliveries, not trade hubs. Try it and tell us how much fun it was. That's why High is and must be safe to produce the goods and ships you blap in Null and low.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#76 - 2016-04-30 16:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Geronimo McVain wrote:

CCP is aiming for a balance.


They are missing the mark by a rather large margin.

They have already removed profitable barge piracy and jetcan theft. The nerfs to piracy in highsec are never ending while the safety and reward only ever goes up.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#77 - 2016-04-30 16:09:23 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
'high sec content creators'...LOL, PC terminology always makes me laugh. Ganking cowards are 'content creators', illegal immigrants are 'dreamers'...


That turned from moderately insightful to terminally racist on a dime. :stare:

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

BrundleMeth
Black Parrot
Sylvanas Super mercenary
#78 - 2016-04-30 18:44:54 UTC
Racist? How so?
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#79 - 2016-04-30 18:47:29 UTC
It's more xenophobic, I guess, but whatevs. Remember: Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Pix Severus
Empty You
#80 - 2016-04-30 23:08:21 UTC
Me right now.

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