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Dust 514 consern.

First post
Author
Sardon Darkstar
Perkone
Caldari State
#141 - 2011-12-20 11:55:18 UTC
I for one hope that Dust is going to be a success. Just the idea of two different games with each their own community, sharing the same environment and interacting, that's just frikken awesome.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#142 - 2011-12-20 12:03:03 UTC
Sardon Darkstar wrote:
I for one hope that Dust is going to be a success. Just the idea of two different games with each their own community, sharing the same environment and interacting, that's just frikken awesome.


That's got to be circumstantial.

How are we going to interact? Are we going to be able to affect their world, by blowing them up in an orbital bombardment? Are we going to be able to give them ISK directly into their wallets? Chat channels, EVE Voice, Forums, EVEmail, Calendar?

We need information before calling it awesome, as it stands the idea sounds good, no more.

We don't even know if the game has auto-leveling, surely a key concern for anyone using a controller?

AK

This space for rent.

Sardon Darkstar
Perkone
Caldari State
#143 - 2011-12-20 12:13:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sardon Darkstar
AlleyKat wrote:
Sardon Darkstar wrote:
I for one hope that Dust is going to be a success. Just the idea of two different games with each their own community, sharing the same environment and interacting, that's just frikken awesome.


That's got to be circumstantial.

How are we going to interact? Are we going to be able to affect their world, by blowing them up in an orbital bombardment? Are we going to be able to give them ISK directly into their wallets? Chat channels, EVE Voice, Forums, EVEmail, Calendar?

We need information before calling it awesome, as it stands the idea sounds good, no more.

We don't even know if the game has auto-leveling, surely a key concern for anyone using a controller?

AK


True, the exact details are still unknown to us, but surely the information on this page suggests interaction.
EDIT: And this page too.
Zaine Maltis
Innsmouth Enterprises
#144 - 2011-12-20 14:11:52 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:

OH! And I almost forgot!

You might wanna read this: http://news.tgn.tv/dust-514-fail-and-lies/


Wow, that is a bloody awful article :/

It doesn't say ANYTHING! It just reads like he bought an Xbox for DUST....
Zaine Maltis
Innsmouth Enterprises
#145 - 2011-12-20 14:14:43 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

If you're the elitest squad in COD, that means nothing, it's a sport. DUST will be the real stuff where losing and wining means something in the console market.

And some people are really itnerested to see wether DUST breaks the stagnation in which console makers have cornered themselve in terms of online gaming.


This is the killer, if they pull it off.

And if they iterate over it, improve and develop it to prevent it getting dull......
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#146 - 2011-12-20 14:20:23 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
I've said it once and I'll say it again.

Dust 514 is ****** from day 1 just because it is a PS 3 exclusive.

Not making it for the PC (where, by the way, Eve Online, the game that made you what you are, CCP, you ungrateful sellout morons, is played) was a brain dead mistake.

Dust will be going against COD and Halo, both of which have huge fan bases that not even Battlefield3 was able to fight against MW 3, and Battlefield has a huge fan base and history.

When I first heard about Dust, I was super mega hyped, but then you dumbasses decided to make it console only, which is a surefire way to make me and thousands of other Eve players not want to touch it.

That being said, I ******* hate consoles, and no wonder how much I love eve, I won't buy a **** console just to play Dust, I have an 8k € PC for that.


QFT.. honestly DUST has been a cluster since day one. I get why they didn't release on XBOX (server constraints/microsoft rules) but they should have just released it as a PC/MAC game and ignored the console entirely. DUST will be, at the very most, a very very niche game, in my opinion. There's no way this goes up against the current FPS market... especially with PlanetSide 2 just around the corner as well.

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.  He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#147 - 2011-12-20 14:25:32 UTC
Sardon Darkstar wrote:
True, the exact details are still unknown to us

I have a feeling they are unknown to CCP as well. There is no way to force MMO players on a PC to play with console kiddies that makes any sense. Either the interaction will be so shallow that it's basically meaningless or they will drastically alter Eve mechanics to the detriment of the game. Like I've said before we just have to hope that Dust fails quickly before it takes Eve down with it.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2011-12-20 15:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
i'm hoping that we won't have to play with console kiddies all the time, as has been answered in this thread pub play for hi sec, hired mercs/corps for null and they were unsure about low sec. if dust has enough to it and it's fleshed out enough it will apeal to people who want to play competitively and in a regular squad. all dipends on the gamplay but from what i've read so far with the moblie command center and the rts gameplay it's going to rely heavily on good tactics as well as being able to "shoot people in the face" ,another guess but i think someone somewhere used to play tribes in a leauge/ladder. if only half of the competative teamplay that was in that game rubs off on dust it's going to be good.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#149 - 2011-12-20 15:04:22 UTC
Sardon Darkstar wrote:
True, the exact details are still unknown to us, but surely the information on this page suggests interaction.
EDIT: And this page too.


Kinda my point - it makes the suggestion but in no way outright states 'this is how it will work'.

We want to know how this interaction manifests itself, because to date this is what we know:

Capsuleers can blow Dust players up from space (according to video footage)
Dust Players are at our whim (according to video footage)
Dust players have to buy ammo and weapons using ISK (according to video footage)

To me: all this means is that we can hire Dust Players to take a planet, and then blow them up from space, just for the shear fun of it.

So, how long before Dust gets a reputation for being the kind of game people play if you like being an ant under the magnifying glass.

Seriously; if there is an Alliance out there whose 'leader' doesn't own a PS3 and simply decides to spend all of their moon-goo revenue on perpetual orbital strikes, all the while laughing at the sound of a thousand PS3 players crying out in frustration, before logging back into COD.

I mean that's potentially the situation we are in here...so, yes, we need some clarity on what the interaction will be.

CCP can't tease us with video footage of taking out Dust players in orbital strikes, and then produce a game that doesn't have that feature.

So, what's it gonna be: true interaction or BS.

AK

This space for rent.

fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2011-12-20 15:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
can't see why they would remove it, there are other ways to balance it, also been hinted at the dust players can shoot back. :)

edit can you imagine the crying, pop goes that carrier Big smile
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#151 - 2011-12-20 16:54:17 UTC
fuer0n wrote:
can't see why they would remove it, there are other ways to balance it, also been hinted at the dust players can shoot back. :)

edit can you imagine the crying, pop goes that carrier Big smile

another very good point, can a single player perform orbital strikes with an insured ship?

This space for rent.

Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#152 - 2011-12-20 17:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Logan LaMort
AlleyKat wrote:
fuer0n wrote:
can't see why they would remove it, there are other ways to balance it, also been hinted at the dust players can shoot back. :)

edit can you imagine the crying, pop goes that carrier Big smile

another very good point, can a single player perform orbital strikes with an insured ship?


The Dust trailer has them shooting back and destroying that dreadnought. When questioned about that after E3 the CCP staff said that the mechanic of orbital bombardment or Dust mercs shooting back was an already working mechanic.

It seems that the level of interaction goes pretty deep bar EVE pilots and Dust mercs meeting face to face. CCP have always said though, even when EVE and Dust are linked, one can survive without the other.

EDIT: I'd also like to say that when you read the articles about Dust on the playstation blogs or independent game sites you see a lot of people are excited for it, a lot of people who at the most know of EVE online. It's a cool concept regardless, it just depends on how CCP implement it. My personal opinion is that Dust can only add to EVE not subtract from it. If it fails, oh well, if it's a success, awesome.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#153 - 2011-12-20 17:49:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
From what I understand, we will be able to talk in local chat together if they are in the same system on a barge.

Give them money (but they wont be able to give us any though not sure how thats going to work considerng the next point)

Join our corproations and allainces.

They can wreck havok on any infastructure on the planet that is set up to help protect and secure space sov but wont directly threaten it (for example if local gets subsituted with a scanning array on the planet the bunnies can go smash it and basically poking out your eyes in local.)

Take planetary sov away from you.

Buy trade and possibly manufacter thier products and give/sell to them, they cannot however participate that much into our markets unless its a dust related thing.

Rob your corporate armories blind just like any eve player would rob your corporate hangers empty.

Will not require eve players to wreck havok against allainces. However...

Without eve players they wont have orbital strikie or airstrike support or keeping the skies clear enough to prevent this from happening to them.

We as eve players cannot wreck havok upon thier world without any dust bunnies of our own to direct our strikes.

Future hope, walking in stations would be the real middile ground where both dust and eve players can meet in person with each others.

Also
Did anyone notice on the dust 514 traielrs that thier galaxy maps had the new nebulas in it?

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#154 - 2011-12-20 18:12:34 UTC
Some things that have come to mind while discussing and learning more about dusk.

1. I can't see, given DUST is confined to Temprate worlds only, it having any real motivation for a podder to get involved. Tactically it's going to be hard to justify why holding this one planet would have any effect on the soverienty of a system while several billions worth of isk in ships defend it (as normal). The income of 1 PI planet is laughable 'stake' if that is supposed to be our motivation.

2. You must have to 'insert' your troops from somewhere, How are DUST ships going to navigate gate camps.

3. The financial interaction between EVE's and DUSTs economies will need to be highly controlled. What's the point in MT gear if EVEites can flood Merc corps with isk allowing them to buy similar bonuses.

4. Planatery defence is going to be a very difficult thing to balance. What class of ship are these going to be a threat to. Set too low anyone can fly a large ship in an pound away, set too high no-one will bother for fear of getting popped. Planetrey bombardment is going to have the same problem in reverse, how effective is a Frigs bombard compared to a BS's from Dusts side.

5. DUST sounds like it may have a slightly diffrent take on FPS. For there to be need for 'tankers' and 'reppers' must mean longer 'fight times' . For example in most FPS the sniper can one shot you others kill you in seconds, for mechanics like 'tanks' and 'healers' to work it must feasibly take a lot longer to take down a single target . How far they go from the usual shoot-kill mechanic will be IMO one of the determining factors of wether it's a good game to play. Should combat be too long it might not have the same 'high tension' feel of other 'Bang your dead' FPS's. Could be a good thing it'll maybe teach players to concentrate on tactics and formations more, but then maybe they don't want to know and are happy with there instant gratification the way it is.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#155 - 2011-12-20 18:20:58 UTC
Temporate and barron are to begin with other world will be expanded into with new tools and equipment.
There is a new level of infastructure that provides sovren holders to secure thier space much more, which is what the dust players will be wrecking.

Dust 514 marines are infomorphic creatures like we are, with one exception, its one mind controlling a generic clone.
Troop insertinos are handeled locally by basically manufacutring everythign the war needs on the spot, its much more efficent that way.

MT in dust is to allow an edge of those who cannot get state level funding from allainces.

4 I think its pefectly balanced out with only allowing capital ships do the stuff and only capitals getting hit back.

5 A sniper with the right gun can probably take out a tank but would have difficulty aiming it on a person. Also there isnt just shoot kill there is shoot enfeeble then kill mechanics going on, Electronic warfare is going to be the biggest differentiator in this shooter, sure there is emp grenades but there are stasis webfirer fields, target painters, hell even a tracking disruptor and even some more exotic electronic warfare we havent seen in space yet.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2011-12-20 18:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
hadnt watched that for a long time. new nebulas are there. Big smile

120mill for a command ship 1.4 mill for a tank. 0.4 mill for combat armour-lets hope not each death or i'm gona be broker than broke in eve - i may have to rethink my tard rushing ways. best get back to grinding iskies looks like we gona need it. if it's good this will bring customers to eve, lots of them.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#157 - 2011-12-20 19:02:16 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Temporate and barron are to begin with other world will be expanded into with new tools and equipment.
There is a new level of infastructure that provides sovren holders to secure thier space much more, which is what the dust players will be wrecking.

That was really my question, what is this new Infastructure, how will it affect sovenreity and why game balance wise when competeing with trillion isk fleets.

Dust 514 marines are infomorphic creatures like we are, with one exception, its one mind controlling a generic clone.
Troop insertinos are handeled locally by basically manufacutring everythign the war needs on the spot, its much more efficent that way.

You would still need to 'drop' your factory, and from what CCP have said logistics IS supposed to be part of the interaction, last I heard anyhow.

MT in dust is to allow an edge of those who cannot get state level funding from allainces.

I think that'll encourage more to quit frankly. example 'why the hell am I paying X per week to play this game just to keep up with Goonmercs inc., I'm off back to Halo/MW/BF'

4 I think its pefectly balanced out with only allowing capital ships do the stuff and only capitals getting hit back.

I wasn't aware of that announcement but would say that excludes 90% of EVE's populace

5 A sniper with the right gun can probably take out a tank but would have difficulty aiming it on a person. Also there isnt just shoot kill there is shoot enfeeble then kill mechanics going on, Electronic warfare is going to be the biggest differentiator in this shooter, sure there is emp grenades but there are stasis webfirer fields, target painters, hell even a tracking disruptor and even some more exotic electronic warfare we havent seen in space yet.

Not sure what that has to do with the 'timing' aspect ie. is it one shot one kill or 30 secs emptying my clip into that Amar battlesuit

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]

fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2011-12-20 19:18:29 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
dust troops navigating gate camps has been answered somewhere - two methods of travel, barge or clonejump only barge travel if your attacking planets. so eve players have to get dust players to the planet if they want to attack.
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#159 - 2011-12-20 19:20:47 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
MT in dust is to allow an edge of those who cannot get state level funding from allainces.

I think that'll encourage more to quit frankly. example 'why the hell am I paying X per week to play this game just to keep up with Goonmercs inc., I'm off back to Halo/MW/BF'


Dust isn't a subscription game and everything bought with MT can also be sold onto the regular ISK market of Dust, same with NeX clothing. So someone being able to generate the ISK shouldn't need to go the MT route.

Professor Alphane wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
4 I think its pefectly balanced out with only allowing capital ships do the stuff and only capitals getting hit back.

I wasn't aware of that announcement but would say that excludes 90% of EVE's populace


I read in the interaction dev blog that a Dust merc would be able to call on an EVE pilot to do an orbital strike against a tank or some such, I'm guessing that orbital strikes will be scaled in severity with ship size. Also it's reasonable to assume you'd need someone on the ground with a target painter or some such device for the smaller targets at least for EVE players to be able to 'lock on'. Either way they have the mechanic of shooting down on a planet/shooting up from a planet working, I'm sure it can be modified extensively.
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#160 - 2011-12-20 19:20:57 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
5 A sniper with the right gun can probably take out a tank but would have difficulty aiming it on a person. Also there isnt just shoot kill there is shoot enfeeble then kill mechanics going on, Electronic warfare is going to be the biggest differentiator in this shooter, sure there is emp grenades but there are stasis webfirer fields, target painters, hell even a tracking disruptor and even some more exotic electronic warfare we havent seen in space yet.

Not sure what that has to do with the 'timing' aspect ie. is it one shot one kill or 30 secs emptying my clip into that Amar battlesuit


Dropsuits and vehicles seem to work the same way as ships in EVE, being able to fit them with different modules for different effects. There's also different classes of suits from light to heavy. So when you fight other players, sometimes it could take 30 seconds to take them down, sometimes you could probably alpha them... same way as how ships in EVE interact, they all have their advantages and disadvantages, different roles etc.