Market Discussions

https://www.twitch.tv/ccp/v/62309292

time 02:44:32

Has original new taxes plan, plus also temp soften the blow taxes plan.

What's the consensus on the short and long term ramifications of these changes? Still lots of quantity being traded on low margin items, seems the brokers increase alone will slash profits into an loss overnight

I suppose if the broker fee was raised to 20% you would make even more, even more, even more ISK? Sorry, but it does not work that way :)

There’s nothing sinister or special at work here. The high sp traders will make more isk simply because of the mechanics of this. Their buy orders will be fulfilled more often; they will acquire more goods to sell. There will be fewer low-skilled traders who 0.01 isk buy orders from the top, because the low-skilled traders will either not start trading or they will cease trading until the time they have the skillpoints invested.

I was looking, anecdotally, at Amarr. One of the dependable earners of mine when I started trading were popular T1 ships. Now, the margins weren’t amazing. Many were trading the same ships, and the spread was maybe 3-5 per cent at most. But I didn’t have the isk to buy much, and each million seemed like a win back then. I bought ones and twos of the T1 ships because that was all I could afford at the time.

Looking at the statistics of the Harbinger battlecruiser:

Top buy order at the time of writing: 50 002 138.63 isk
Top sell order at the time of writing: 53 000 999.99 isk

Before Citadels that ship would have made a profit. Not amazing profit, certainly, but for the beginning trader, it would have seemed like a win. At those prices, this ship sells at a loss now. It’s a negative spread of -2.29% for an unskilled trader.

The keen will be aware of this before entering the market for this item. The not so keen will just see a gradual erosion of the wallet. The starting trader who is keen will not start to trade this item. The starting trader who is already trading in this item will get out of the market. For the likes of me, who have both high standing with Amarr and maxed out skills in trading, this item is profitable still. If I were trading in it, I would not withdraw a buy order. And I could possibly open a buy order. It would not be moved from the top except by others of the same skill level as I.

So, yes. This mechanic benefits traders like me. At the expense of lower skilled traders. And I would make more isk.

You forget that there are also producers who almost always can undercut traders (it was one of the goals of the increase). Even if the low skill traders are purged from the market, this and the fees still cut into the profit margin for the rest, because spreads will not fully compensate. I still see a lot of items with "negative" or minimal spreads even for well skilled traders.

Its 2% with perfect skills.

Its 3% base.

I have negative standings (just about) with CN and Caldari, and am at 2.5% broker fee. (1.18 CN and -0.90 with Caldari).

The new broker fees mean, with 0 standings and skill V, you are within 0.5% of those with perfect standing.


The negative or minimal spreads are because prices are adjusting, and, there are still orders up from before the patch.

So, I flip a plex with 22m each way broker fee, I believe with perfect standing it is around 18m each way, giving those people now only an 8m advantage over me.

Whiskey meanderings on the trade changes .....

It's all about percentages and you need to understand the cost of each transaction you consider.

Know what profit you are going to make and the volatility of the item you are looking at. This tells you how attentive to movements you need to be.

The new costs will work thru the system as old buy orders sell through and the ignorant back out of trading. The patient and thoughtful will be rewarded. This is a buff for good dedicated traders.

Costs will be passed on to buyers, 01 traders will continue to play the new spreads and the market will return to normal only with a new spread.

Citadels will be built and citadel traders in Empire will have a margin advantage over the market hubs. Their best hope for success will be to specialize. Volume trading will remain where it is most efficient to do so - places where everyone gathers together - ie market hubs. In nulsec citadels (sandcastles) will be irresistible to everyone with a Fleet (spade)...... better trading margins and other buffs may mean smaller groups can exist without frequent trips to Jita, this may have a significant imapact on volumes in Empire..... if people choose to settle nul and not live in NPC stations.

If CCP want trade to move to Citadels in a big way (in Empire) then they have to allow something to be done there that you cannot do elsewhere. I guess at some point they may have to remove some NPC stations in Empire, or further penalize trading in NPC stations.

Or maybe the real goal is not to undermine the trade hubs and p&*% off the traders but instead to give us something to drop our ISK into and name after our favorite but sadly long deceased pet hamster .........